Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Are you? Thats all you have been doing in this thread. It does not matter about Saint Jerome and his translation if Gnostic sects were obviously operating before the 4th century following Lucifer.

Where is your source that Gnostic sects were worshipping Lucifer prior to Jerome's mistranslation? I know you do not know how to use the 'quote; function, are you also incapable of uisng the 'link' function as well? Link your sources otherwise this is all your conjectural opinion.

Sure you are which is why you are stuck on stupid with it.

Stupid is when people expect others to take their opinion as fact without any type of verification.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
They are compatible.

Religions without belief in a Supreme Being are not compatible with regular Masonry. This is not open for dispute.

Religions without belief in a Supreme Being are not compatible with regular Masonry. This is not open for dispute.

Sure it is open for dispute because you dont know what the hell you are talking about, and you just sit there bloviating an opinion again like you even know whats going on in the real world of Masonry. I have sat in your 'regular' lodge with Buddhists. Buddhism=No creator God. Try again, and actually come with some real facts about what is known. Rather than your convoluted ideas that are swimming around in that head of yours. You are beyond ridiculous. You are like the Grand Master of Florida conviently omitting a whole paragraph of religious tolerance because you are so bigoted towards your own. I'm surprised you are a traveling man with your attitude towards others whom are unlike you. Its people like you who make the craft irrelevant, and want to leave, and you wonder why numbers are so low these days.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
I have sat in your 'regular' lodge with Buddhists. Buddhism=No creator God.

Every Grand Lodge requires belief in a Supreme Being. If they did not have this then how did they get in and who knowingly singed their petition? Additionally, it is quite clear in the ritual and obligations that belief in a Supreme Being is a requirement. If they participated in such without said belief then they do not belong in Masonry. End of story.



Still waiting for you to post some links on your other points.

Figure that out yet?

Every Grand Lodge requires belief in a Supreme Being. If they did not have this then how did they get in and who knowingly singed their petition? Additionally, it is quite clear in the ritual and obligations that belief in a Supreme Being is a requirement. If they participated in such without said belief then they do not belong in Masonry. End of story.

Apparantly not. End of Story.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Apparantly not. End of Story.

Then I am glad I am not a member of a lodge that disregards the requirements so easily. There is no place in regular Masonry for candidates or members that are not willing to adhere to the requirements.

Then I am glad I am not a member of a lodge that disregards the requirements so easily. There is no place in regular Masonry for candidates or members that are not willing to adhere to the requirements.

Is it the candidates and the members or are you just like the old guys in the lodge pining for the old days that dont exist anymore? The lodges would have accepted these candidates with no issue. I'm sure there are those of us ,myself included, who are glad we dont have to sit in lodge with you so the feeling is mutual.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Is it the candidates and the members or are you just like the old guys in the lodge pining for the old days that dont exist anymore? The lodges would have accepted these candidates with no issue.

None of these candidates would have been excepted in my lodge and, as I am a member of the Grand Lodge, I could safely say that anyone who does not adhere to the requirements would not be permitted to join and if it was found out after the fact they would be expelled. The requirements are crystal clear, belief in a Supreme Being is mandatory.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
you can block my posts all you want to he is still a bigot.

I have expressed no bigoted opinions, only that certain religions are not permitted within Masonry due to requirements. If you cannot articulate an appropriate response and have to resort to non sequitor ad hominems perhaps you should refrain from posting.

I have expressed no bigoted opinions, only that certain religions are not permitted within Masonry due to requirements. If you cannot articulate an appropriate response and have to resort to non sequitor ad hominems perhaps you should refrain from posting.

Sure you have especially in regards to religion you know like the Grand Master of Florida that was brought up. You are on the wrong side of history. I will respond however I wish, and I will not refrain from posting because it ruffles feathers. Thats your problem you are used to yes men kissing your fourth point of contact, and I refuse to do so.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Sure you have especially in regards to religion...

Then supply the quotes where I did. You have a terrible habit of not backing up your points with facts. Now is a good time to start.

Originally posted by no1smootha
Grand Master of F&AM of Florida Ruling and Decision

Why would the Grand Master of F&AM of Florida have any need or reason to make a strict monotheistic ruling like this if the standards of recognition for all F&AM lodges were already strictly monotheistic like Augustus claims they are?

It's looks like another damning piece of evidence to support the fact that the standard of recognition for ALL regular lodges is NOT monotheism, although each individual Grand Lodge is free to stay at the standard or go above and beyond the standard of recognition, just never below the standard.

Originally posted by Erbal
Why would the Grand Master of F&AM of Florida have any need or reason to make a strict monotheistic ruling like this if the standards of recognition for all F&AM lodges were already strictly monotheistic like Augustus claims they are?

The logical assumption is that lodges were initiating members in his jurisdiction against the landmarks.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Erbal
Why would the Grand Master of F&AM of Florida have any need or reason to make a strict monotheistic ruling like this if the standards of recognition for all F&AM lodges were already strictly monotheistic like Augustus claims they are?

The logical assumption is that lodges were initiating members in his jurisdiction against the landmarks.

The question has arisen if certain religious practices are compatible with Freemasonry, primarily
Paganism, Wiccan and Odinism, and secondarily Agnosticism and Gnosticism.

Those are the opening words on the ruling in FLorida last month.

Why would there be any question about whether or not these non-monotheistic religious practices are compatible with Freemasonry IF Freemasonry was strictly monotheistic like you claim? Why would a Grand Master feel the need to make new and redundant rulings/decisions to explicitly exclude non-monotheistic practices if it has already been clearly established that ONLY monotheistic practices are compatible with Freemasonry?

Originally posted by Erbal
Why would there be any question about whether or not these non-monotheistic religious practices are compatible with Freemasonry IF Freemasonry was strictly monotheistic like you claim? Why would a Grand Master feel the need to make new and redundant rulings/decisions to explicitly exclude non-monotheistic practices if it has already been clearly established that ONLY monotheistic practices are compatible with Freemasonry?

Again, the logical assumption is that lodges were intitiating members who did not adhere to the landmarks.

Grand Masters often make rulings or proclomations having to do with other rules which are not being adhered to on a local level.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Erbal
Why would there be any question about whether or not these non-monotheistic religious practices are compatible with Freemasonry IF Freemasonry was strictly monotheistic like you claim? Why would a Grand Master feel the need to make new and redundant rulings/decisions to explicitly exclude non-monotheistic practices if it has already been clearly established that ONLY monotheistic practices are compatible with Freemasonry?

Again, the logical assumption is that lodges were intitiating members who did not adhere to the landmarks.

Grand Masters often make rulings or proclomations having to do with other rules which are not being adhered to on a local level.

The question has arisen if certain religious practices are compatible with Freemasonry, primarily Paganism, Wiccan and Odinism, and secondarily Agnosticism and Gnosticism.

I've heard you go on and on and on and on and on about how monotheism is this core requirement for Freemasons, how you can't join unless you are a monotheist, and how even if you somehow got 2 people to sign your petition you'd still not get anything from Freemasonry unless you are a monotheist.

So why is there any question about the compatibility of non-monotheistic practices, especially a level of questioning that ultimately gets the #1 authority in the jurisdiction to go through the effort of making an official ruling and decision on the matter? The logical explanation is that monotheism is NOT a standard of recognition and/or an unflinching rule across all of Freemasonry.

Can you imagine the US Supreme Court writing up something to the American people to address the rising question of whether or not it's illegal to purchase and consume illegal drugs? Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous, just like your "logical explanation."

Erbal, you'll never be satisfied with any answer given to you. You're just looking to argue and obviously think we're wrong regardless of the evidence that is presented.

Originally posted by Erbal
I've heard you go on and on and on and on and on about how monotheism is this core requirement for Freemasons, how you can't join unless you are a monotheist, and how even if you somehow got 2 people to sign your petition you'd still not get anything from Freemasonry unless you are a monotheist.

Which is true. Masonry's principles and teachings revolve around monotheism. The non-monotheist's beliefs are not aligned with Masonry's belief requirements and lessons.

So why is there any question about the compatibility of non-monotheistic practices, especially a level of questioning that ultimately gets the #1 authority in the jurisdiction to go through the effort of making an official ruling and decision on the matter?

Are you dense? It would obviously appear that lodges in the jurisdiction had not been adhering to the Landmarks. There are occasional instances were lodges on a local level either intentionally or unintentionally circumvent the Constitution, By-Laws or Edicts of the Grand Lodge under who's jurisdiction they operate.

They are admonished in some form for their transgession with punishment ranging from a verbal correction to having their charter revoked depending on the severity of the crime. The Grand Master will, often, make his admonishment available for the remainder of the lodges as a reminder of what Masonic jurisprudence consists of and what the punishments are for disregarding its regulations.

The logical explanation is that monotheism is NOT a standard of recognition and/or an unflinching rule across all of Freemasonry.

If you say so. I am sure everyone should be taking the word of a non-Mason who is completely versed in Masonic rules and jurisprudence.

Can you imagine the US Supreme Court writing up something to the American people to address the rising question of whether or not it's illegal to purchase and consume illegal drugs? Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous, just like your "logical explanation."

Your analogy is flawed. The Grand Master issuing a proclomation is not equivalent to the Supreme Court issuing a verdict, we have Masonic courts and those who were found to be initiating members outside of the landmarks have already been addressed by such.

A more suitable anaolgy would be your employer, after finding that associates were raiding the supply closet for their personal consumption (and after having dealt with said associates) sending an email to all other associates reminding them that it is against company policy to take material from the supply closet for non-work related uses.