Hillsborough files released: LIVE coverage

reply to post by dowot


We could keep on listing these things until the cows come home.

I think, what is important now, is to get those who covered this up. ALL of them..

This is not your everyday, run of the mill, cover up.. this is major one.. a biggie..

It's one of the biggest issues to come to light with regards of police corruption. We need to dig into this until no stone is uncovered.. name and shame and lock up every single person involved.

An extreme example needs to be made.

I will surely be keeping my eye on this story..

When I initially clicked on this thread, I had never even heard of this disaster, and after reading what's been posted here (not a lot of specifics on the disaster itself) I was believing that it was some type of building failure, that people were crushed by concrete or something. But after looking at Wikipedia it seems that it was really a case of hooliganism gone wrong, the sort of idiotic devotion to a sports club that people let polarize themselves into different groups, when really it's all about healthy competition where everyone is supposed to shake hands at the end of the day, no matter who won the match.

reply to post by jeantherapy


you're almost right.. but you're wrong..

It was not hooligans.. There was no fighting..
Here is a very brief description as to what the cause was..

police lost control, opened an exit gate and allowed thousands of fans to enter, and stream unguided, into crowded pens. They then ignored the desperate pleas from those who were perishing behind 10ft high, spiked metal. It was Britain's worst sporting disaster and it changed football forever.

An inquiry would demand all pitch-side fences were ripped out, seats put in and fans treated as human beings.

www.mirror.co.uk...

now read the rest of it as it will open you up to the way the police lied and covered all their errors and failures and how they tried to blame it all on the fans...
It's a conspiracy up there with the best of them..
a massive scandal that needs to be fully brought out and turned to the full powers of the law..

96 people died due to police error and inaction..

reply to post by jeantherapy


Sir if you dont know what you are on about you should do some reading on the subject before embarrassing yourself.
The Hillsborough disaster was not about hooligans as todays report has proven.

What I am hearing is that there were too many people there, whose fault is that? At any serious sporting venue you sell as many tickets as you have seats for. The police may have covered up their lousy response to a lousy situation but saying that it was the fault of the police is a cop out, they didn't force all these people to show up to a soccer match.

Only recently the incestuous relationship between the police, the Murdoch media group and politicians was exposed in the phone hacking scandal.
Is it any wonder that we now find out that these same three 'parties' conspired in a cover up to hide the facts about the events surrounding the deaths of these 96 people and that they even lied and altered statements in a deliberate attempt to blame others rather than those who were actually responsible.

That no-one has ever been held legally accountable for so many deaths is an absolute disgrace and everyone knowingly involved in the cover up along with those who were criminally negligent should face some sort of legal proceedings.

This case goes right to the heart of the British society and it highlights the injustices and inequalities that are still inherent within it.

reply to post by jeantherapy


Read the report, it clearly states the police opened the wrong gate and the fans who had been delayed in traffic were funneled into a stand which was already full. They had tickets.

For those who aren't aware what happened back on April 15th 1989 at the FA Cup Semi-Final, between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest ,and afterwards then you need to. Because the higher echelons of the South Yorkshire Police and sections of the media sought to cover up what really went on. A cover up that hid the the reasons for the deaths of 96 entirely innocent football fans. One of the victims was a 10 year old boy Jon-Paul Gilhooley, the youngest to lose his life, and cousin of the now captain of Liverpool (and England) football teams, Steven Gerrard. He and the other 95 should never have died that day and the families should never have had to put up with the smear stories and lies that followed. For 23 long years they have fought to get to the real truth as to how their loved ones were lost.

Back in the 1980s football was not the sport it is today in England with it's fantastic all seater stadia, international superstars and saturation coverage across global satellite TV. Games were often played in 100 year old creaking football grounds with scant regard for the fans,especially those who stood on the open terracing to support their teams. It should not be forgotten that heavy handed policing and high fencing was in operation to keep the "hooligans" penned in during this time.

What happened at Hillsborough was tragic. Crowds were building up outside as the start of the game drew ever closer. Inside the stadium. in the lower tier areas behind the goal, fans were already experiencing extreme discomfort and crushing. Some were already losing their breath as the pressure grew. Unbelievably the policeman in charge ordered a large exit gate to be opened to reduce the crush of fans outside the ground. Fans streamed into the areas causing more crushing as the game kicked off. Some fans began to climb the high fences to protect themselves. Others who were not so lucky were crushed, many suffered serious injuries, for 96 of them it was fatal and they never returned home.

With dead and wounded numbers growing the police finally realised what was going on, the game was stopped and fans spill out onto the pitch trying to resuscitate their fallen friends. However the ambulances and professional medical support were kept out of the ground due to more police indecision and bungling. People had literally had the life squeezed out of them and now there was no one to come to their aid.

What followed was worse. The South Yorkshire police immediately launched a propaganda exercise via the media that drunken Liverpool supporters had kicked down the exit gate and "killed their own" by forcing their way into the ground. The Sun newspaper then printed lies about fans stealing from the dead and even more unsavoury things that simply weren't true. Witness statements were also altered by senior police officers.

Inquests in 1991 into the deaths of the victims returned a majority verdict of accidental death, and ruled all 96 were all dead by 3.15pm. Which now can be seen as total fabrication.

These lies have been difficult to shake off as they were perpetuated by Kelvin McKenzie, an execrable character, who has finally apologised but down the years has often claimed that facts should never get in the way of a good story. The initial media reports stuck in the minds of many. To this day there was a belief that Hillsborough was caused by violent, murdering Liverpool fans because of those early reports.



Although I was working that day and missed the game I do know a few people who were there that day who thankfully came home. My (now) brother in law was outside the Leppings Lane part of the ground and said he had this terrible feeling of danger and decided to wait outside. He never actually entered the ground and maybe that is the reason he is still alive today? I also know a few other guys who are still haunted by that day with memories that bring tears to their eyes. Painful memories of feeling their breath squeezed from them with nowhere to go to relieve that pressure, seeing limp, lifeless, bodies carried away on pieces of advertising hoarding, and the helplessness and sheer horror of what was unfolding around them.

It has been a long hard road to finally get full disclosure and thanks should go to Andy Burnham, Steve Rotherham, many of the Merseyside (and other national) MPs and the support groups who campaigned tirelessly to get to this point.

Even if the whole truth is not forthcoming then hopefully the media coverage will wake people up to the fact that this was a carefully executed cover-up by various high profile organisations. It has finally had the lid prized open on it.


RIP 96 - YNWA

reply to post by jeantherapy


You're missing the point..
There was not proper governance by police or ground officials as to who or how many entered the stadium.
The police simply opened a gate andlet everyone in..

The fans surged forwards, which began to slowly crush everyone at the front next to the fence.

Leppings Lane, the entry point for all Liverpool fans, was human gridlock.

No police or stewards were on hand to filter the thousands of fans into queues.

The only visible authority was half-adozen forlorn figures in blue on horseback and a few on the ground, screaming at the swaying crowd to back away from the turnstiles. For the second year running, and despite protests, Liverpool were given 4,000 fewer tickets and the smaller end of the ground - despite having a much bigger following than Forest.

Geographically it made the police job of getting fans in and out of Sheffield easier.

Ensuring safety is how they termed it. It meant all 24,000 Liverpool ticket-holders, whether in Leppings Lane or the West and North stands, had to pass through 23 turnstiles, most so old they constantly jammed.

at 2.52pm a huge blue exit gate opened and 2,000 of us poured in.

At the back of the Leppings Lane terrace, stewards who were supposed to be dispersing the supporters evenly into five pens had vanished. Consequently the bulk of fans ignored the lesser populated pens at the sides of the terrace and headed into the two central ones behind the goal, already over-crowded. Those at the front became packed tighter and tighter. The game was now under way and fans at the back, ignorant of the crush, concentrated on trying to get a view of the pitch.

They weren't to know that ahead of them on this shallow-sloping concrete there was panic, fear, hyper-ventilating, fainting, hair drenched in sweat and vomit matting on the metal fencing.

And death.

www.mirror.co.uk...

Please catch up with all that REALLY happened in order to stay informed as to why this is one of the biggest police cover ups.

reply to post by marvinthemartian


Ok, the police blew it and maybe their actions even started it. But a calm response from the attendees could have changed the outcome, don't you think? But I still contend that it's inherently dangerous to attend one of these matches, given the long history of violence at these events. I would never personally attend a soccer match anywhere in Europe or South America, here's why: en.wikipedia.org...

"In 1964 more than 300 football fans died and another 500 were injured in Lima (Peru) in a riot during an Olympic qualifying match between Argentina and Perú in 24 May."

"On 14 May 1939 at the stadium of Lanús (in the city of Lanús, in the Greater Buenos Aires), the violence claimed its first fatality in Argentine territory. In a match of the minor divisions of Boca Juniors and the local team, after a foul by a player of Lanús, players began to fight. Seeing this, the Boca Juniors fans wanted to tear down the fence and invade the pitch, prompting the police to fire shots to disperse them. But a police officer named Luis Estrella shot into the stands, killing two spectators: Luis López and Oscar Munitoli, a minor of 9 years."

"Football hooliganism in England dates back to the 1880s, when individuals referred to as roughs caused trouble at football matches."

"In March 1978, a full-scale riot broke out at The Den during an FA Cup quarter-final between Millwall and Ipswich."

"On 29 May 1985, 39 Juventus fans were crushed to death during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus at Heysel Stadium in Brussels"

So here's my point: these matches have a long and dark history of terrible violence and loss of life (which is completely unacceptable; sports are supposed to bring us together not separate) SO - don't take your children to an event you know perfectly well could get out of hand.

if anybody else withheld evidence and altered it they would be arrested and charged, it seems to me in events like this the government does not apply it's own laws to itself. withholding evidence, falsifying evidence etc etc.

I can understand keeping certain things secret but I don't see how things like this can be kept under wraps for so long or at all, who are they protecting and why? all the families want is to know why their loved ones died that day.
it is sickening to me it has took so long to get to this point.

I don't see how knowing the truth here can reveal state secrets or sensitive information,

Originally posted by jeantherapy

So here's my point: these matches have a long and dark history of terrible violence and loss of life (which is completely unacceptable; sports are supposed to bring us together not separate) SO - don't take your children to an event you know perfectly well could get out of hand.

We understand that, and appreciate what you're trying to say.

The problem here though is that the police used that very same knowledge in order to lie and change the entire story to blame the fans.

reply to post by jeantherapy

In England alone there are 4 division's with 20 to 24 teams each. who play every weekend for 9 months of the year, millions of people go to watch each week and you can only find 1 or 2 examples of idiots causing trouble.
You sir must try harder.

I remember watching it unfold live on TV and being horrified. It was my birthday. It seemed most people not in the crush thought there was fighting going on (watch the original clips) and it took ages for most to click that it was worse than that. Due to mismanagement of the crowds people were being crushed to death as we watched on telly. Not just men but their little sons and daughters too. Bashed tight till their lungs collapsed and they suffocated. And while this is happening police on horses outside are STILL corralling fans in through the gates, making it tighter and tighter inside.

Serious mistakes were made and they tried to cover them up for almost 25 years. They blamed the fans. They said they were drunk and fighting (even the children who were killed supposedly had blood samples taken for alcohol levels) . It was said that some fans were seen urinating on the dying. This was all over the press. Helped and encouraged by police the Sun newspaper was one of the worst culprits for blaming the victims of the crush, and I've read that paper has been largely boycotted in Liverpool since. I hope that's true.

Even worse than all that, the families of the victims were told over the years they were "conspiracy theorists". They were told to calm down and get some dignity "like the families of the Bradford fire victims". This is also insulting to the families of the Bradford fire victims.

Well it turns out these "conspiracy theorists" were telling the truth all those years and there's been a massive cover up, even bigger than everyone thought, (apart from the families who probably knew everything all those years but nobody listened).

Today we learned that at least 41 of the 96 who died that day could have been saved if they'd been helped. But it seems they were just left on the pitch to die.

Accidents happen, but the cover-up and the disgusting lies are what makes this so terrible. The breakdown in communications that day might have been forgiveable but they lied and twisted things and made it all really ugly, to cover up their mistakes, and that's insulted and destroyed the lives of these victims and their families for years.

Originally posted by jeantherapy
reply to post by marvinthemartian

 

Ok, the police blew it and maybe their actions even started it. But a calm response from the attendees could have changed the outcome, don't you think? But I still contend that it's inherently dangerous to attend one of these matches, given the long history of violence at these events. I would never personally attend a soccer match anywhere in Europe or South America, here's why: en.wikipedia.org...

"In 1964 more than 300 football fans died and another 500 were injured in Lima (Peru) in a riot during an Olympic qualifying match between Argentina and Perú in 24 May."

"On 14 May 1939 at the stadium of Lanús (in the city of Lanús, in the Greater Buenos Aires), the violence claimed its first fatality in Argentine territory. In a match of the minor divisions of Boca Juniors and the local team, after a foul by a player of Lanús, players began to fight. Seeing this, the Boca Juniors fans wanted to tear down the fence and invade the pitch, prompting the police to fire shots to disperse them. But a police officer named Luis Estrella shot into the stands, killing two spectators: Luis López and Oscar Munitoli, a minor of 9 years."

"Football hooliganism in England dates back to the 1880s, when individuals referred to as roughs caused trouble at football matches."

"In March 1978, a full-scale riot broke out at The Den during an FA Cup quarter-final between Millwall and Ipswich."

"On 29 May 1985, 39 Juventus fans were crushed to death during the European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus at Heysel Stadium in Brussels"

So here's my point: these matches have a long and dark history of terrible violence and loss of life (which is completely unacceptable; sports are supposed to bring us together not separate) SO - don't take your children to an event you know perfectly well could get out of hand.

I don't really think you understand about what went on specifically at Hillsborough to make such comments. No one is saying that there were not problems at football matches back in the 70s and 80s but in the main you could avoid trouble unless you wanted it. (I am speaking from experience here)

The problem at Hillsborough was that the ground had not had a proper safety certificate for the number of fans who were being directed into the Leppings Lane end of the ground. Entry was via two tunnels onto the terracing and there was no view as to what was happening up ahead. Once the exit gate was opened even more fans began to force their way into these tunnels creating crushing ahead of them. With the high fencing there was literally nowhere for people to go. Nearly 800 people were badly injured and 96 died from the crushing with medical care being delayed or prevented from reaching those who died. The incompetence of the senior police officers was the main reason for the deaths. They altered over 150 statement to conceal their bungling. This was the conclusion of the Taylor report in 1990.

This was not a riot or an incident of hooliganism whatsoever.

I would advise that you do a little more research and then you will realise that most people did not expect things to get "out of hand" for a cup match against Nottingham Forest.

This is a huge police scandal people. Experience tells me they will use this opportunity, this information has been released for a reason IMO.

I believe this will be used as an excuse to phase out the public servent police. They are going to demonize the police and then suggest a new Private Corporate Police. They always demonize something in the media before they bring it down. Its called pre-programming.

The government will state they cannot afford to pay the police as they are bankrupt and then the corporate police will be brought in maybe backed by the military police.

reply to post by wigit

Well said air.
And yes to this day you cannot buy a copy of the sun in liverpool.

Originally posted by mirageman

Once the exit gate was opened even more fans began to force their way into these tunnels creating crushing ahead of them.

So when you see a crowd of people and there is clearly no place to go you just run ahead and start pushing? Again, it sounds like a problem with fans first and police response second. Oh, and most people don't expect things to get out of hand, that's why people are so unprepared when things do go wrong.

Originally posted by jeantherapy

Originally posted by mirageman

Once the exit gate was opened even more fans began to force their way into these tunnels creating crushing ahead of them.

So when you see a crowd of people and there is clearly no place to go you just run ahead and start pushing? Again, it sounds like a problem with fans first and police response second. Oh, and most people don't expect things to get out of hand, that's why people are so unprepared when things do go wrong.

Why did you omit?

"Entry was via two tunnels onto the terracing and there was no view as to what was happening up ahead."

That day was definetly one of the darkest for British sport, and although not a Liverpool fan myself, I know that it is not only Liverpool fans or the people of that city that are relieved this evidence is finally in the public domain.

I remember the day it happened and how upset some of my cousins, who are fans of the club were as they listened to the disaster unfolding.

Unlike one particular poster on this thread, anybody with a bit of common sense will know that the only reason it happened was the incompitence of the police hierarchy who were in charge and nothing whatsoever to do with hooliganism or drunkenness. The shambolic inquest and the shameful 3.15 cut-off point were deliberate actions designed to make sure that nothing after that time was investigated.

The fact that witness statements were also altered should in my opinion render the previous inquest irrelevant and a waste of time and a new inquest should be had and the people who were ultimately responsible finally brought to justice.

Blackburn Rovers supporter. YNWA