New Testament Fairy Tales

reply to post by jiggerj


it's as the bird in the tree, it doesn't wait for God to throw birdseed into the nest, it has to go forth and find it, and in turn show the other birds which way and where it is....by example or parable...then everyone knows how to find food...otherwise the bird sits in the nest if God feeds it and gets fat and doesn't stay progressive but stagnates...we must WORK for it continuously, questioning everything until we "refine that silver and knowing when to take it from the flame and see our face in it, then we'll know it's truth, then can teach others...

it's really empowering and enlightening to see others do this by true compassion and faith not preaching hellfire and brimstone which automatically builds a person down, not builds them up...pay it forward dear ones...

Pay it forward...use compassion and pity, and love is the most important, unconditional love...w/out judging.

If you must judge another, judge their fruits of the tree, not the person themselves, then you will be able to help them prune those rotten branches because by focusing on the action you do not alienate them by making them feel inferior and unworthy...they have that by God always, no man can take that worth from you, it's by compromising our truth that we allow someone else to make us less than we are....

Does that help a bit?

Originally posted by trekwebmaster
reply to post by jiggerj

 

As that little bird never worries for its food, God created the food for it, BUT you do not see God throwing birdseed in its nest....the bird has to go forth and find it and it is the going forth and the finding that humanity needs to relearn again.

If we all grew gardens no one would be hungry, if we all watched each other's back, no one would be double-crossed...if we truly had the intent on protecting each other no one would allow the other to put them harm's way.

Or

Going further, no one would allow certain untruths to propagate in a society which holds a higher standard of truth to be its goal. In reference to half-truth, propaganda, lies, deceit, all of the negative aspects, but only allow those pure and true to be expressed....it's really simple when you break it down into right or wrong, but to do this we'll NEVER ALLOW any compromises to TRUTH, but one should know what truth is and many think they do but they don't. The key to this is discernment of both right and wrong. You must know both before you can divide each one from the other. Wheat and Tares parable, and often the tares look like wheat, smell like wheat, but there is one aspect of a tare and wheat that may be different, and if we overlook it we can't see the forest before the trees....keep practicing, you'll be able to do it...trust your gut feeling and intuition, that's what it's there for....you feel truth in your gut....and that feeling indicates a decision must be made and never compromised on...I just hope you all make the correct and true decision...

This is soooooooooo up my ally in regards to the truth I hold in my heart.

I also want to add that in my early years of seeking I did not take some of the Bible as hard core truth, I felt it was NOT from God, the one I had built a relationship with. I was told over and over again that as a Christian I could not do that, so..... I became a seeker of truth and dropped the title Christian, after all Jesus was not a Cnristian either.

For me, I believe deciphering comes into play with ANY text. If you feel it is not from God, then go with that feeling. I know I do, will, and will never have anyone tell me what God thinks as I know just as well as they do. If I fail it's because of my own doing, this I take responsibility for.

I believe we all will get out of here one way or another and the hell fire is not for an eternity..... It's a cleansing.

It breaks my heart for those of us who get confused and feel unworthy. The Bible can lead many astray IF you allow others to tell you what is truth and what isn't especially in regards to God. Decipher truth because matter is shown to deceive and trick us..... Even with an apple that looks soooo delicious.

I have many beliefs that have never changed since I first read the Bible. These beliefs are not the mainstream Christian Beliefs, but that is OK! I'm not stressing over it like I used to because today I know that God loves me as I seek commune with him everyday by thinking and pondering some of life's biggest questions and he provides answers to me. All we have to do is be sincere and ask!

Originally posted by jiggerj
I swear I am not searching for god. I am searching for logical, rational, feelable, truth. And right now the truth is even if there were a god as described in the bible - NO WAY would I worship him.

I'll admit that the massive amount of information in a living cell has me quite boggled. But, I would still go with an intelligent alien race playing god with our DNA rather than a mystical being waving a magic wand and creating us and the universe.

It burdens me, to hear the meaning behind your posts...The Spirit allows us to read between the lines, if we would but listen.
There is no need to search for God. I offer this, as I am but a mere man, and am incapable of creating the right words of my own...

Revelations 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that has an ear, let him hear

I know your suffering,as I have felt it. And for whatever reason, this is something that we must endure...

James 4 9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. 10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

But to know God and to accept the offer from Christ would fulfill this Scripture...

Ephesians 3 16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fullness of God.

reply to post by MamaJ


I feel the same and why I became my own personal jesus, but my ego made me think I was jesus, but I realized that this is darkness and would lead to no good, so then I crucified my own personal jesus and found the light I was looking for...the pearl of great price. Through that denial and acceptance only did I know truth.

Alot of people are still operating under their ego's version of their own personal jesus and tear folks down instead of building them up. And I regret this, and is why I have to question myself over and over to "discern" the light from the dark, because the dark sometimes looks like your own face staring back at you in the mirror.

One of the tools I had to use to recognize my ego was by testing it by asking is this good for others or just me, is this God or my ego talking here? If it seems too fast or too good to be true, oftentimes it's the ego, because enlightenment is not easy. It's not easy at all and there are traps there to test character, and often you'll have to sacrifice service to self for the service to others to see it. Fruit of the tree works here too....all of the basic negative emotions as greed lust vengeance war cruelty lying are based in ego to make it feel more powerful but it's not, it is a spoiled child that needs a spanking then later an adult which needs to be sentenced and only you can do this, then when it yields itself over to the true self, you'll see and know.

I battle my ego daily, but it's just fragments of a dying gasp hopefully and one day I will be victorious in slaying it altogether. it holds no power when I know how it operates and the tricks it uses. and there are many so many we cannot count...you may not have to use the same way I did, because everyone is different and there are infinite paths on the road to enlightenment, but if you stumble, learn from it and forgive yourself, if you allow the ego to make you feel unworthy, that's another trick it uses, don't compromise with it and it gets easier to discern and easier to win.

reply to post by GoOfYFoOt


and if that door doesn't open at first, keep banging on it and hammering on it until it does...do not compromise and it will open if you have sincere heart to learn...that's true. preserverance does work...lol.

BANG ON THAT DOOR, MANY TIMES until the damned thing opens...lol DEMAND IT!

But let's go here for a moment: You have some intelligence, so you know that a child would have a hard time deciphering anything in the bible. There are people more intelligent than you (theologians with years and years of study) that would say that you aren't intelligent enough to decipher the bible. Also, these wise men would be quite ignorant to think that they could understand God and the bible. Why would a god make it so hard to understand his messages and meanings? Some would say that the messages are unclear in order to make us work for the answers. Hey, this is the welfare of our souls we're talking about here! You get the bible messages wrong, and it's off to hell you go for all eternity.

reply to post by jiggerj


Oh I'm so glad you asked! Hahaha.... I love thinking and talking about God, some may say I'm addicted.

Here is where I'm at in my jouney of life on Earth.

It's a story.

God is expressing himself through his creation. Think about this for a moment and look around. The sentence itself is very deep and can go as deep as you want or mind will allow.

Anything you read has been inspired to an extent.

Anything you listen to has been inspired to an extent.

Anything you touch has been inspired to an extent.

From ALL of your senses you are in commune with God daily all day and all night long.

In the beginning is a story. It's a story of matter and light and that story is continuing today. The way it manifests within is totally up to you and your journey with " light of the matter".

The way it's manifested within me is matter became a serpent, then an apple. It began a story of sensing good and bad and how matter can manipulate.

When you read the Bible over and over again you begin to have a feeling of good and bad. God being good and God being bad. Different characters in the Bible take on either a good role or a bad role. The book is filled with stories!!!!! These stories teach us something. Maybe the story is only shedding light on God being " bad" but when looked in a different light you may SEE something entirely different.

When I was a child, maybe six, I had the gift of deciphering. I can still tell a lie from truth whether it's coming from a friend, my coworker, or my mom. Lol I just know. It's a gut feeling I've always had and use it when reading ANY spiritual text. The words that come to you daily have been inspired by thoughts, music, literature and so on.

The theologians may be smarter than me, but they do not have my heart. They may have boxed them self in whereas my mind and heart is wide open.

My father graduated from Vanderbilt with a PHD. He WAS a Methodist Minister for many years and he and I have had some really deep conversations whereas his eyes were opened from me thinking aloud and asking questions.

I don't believe in the hell fire for eternity bit... I believe it's a cleanser if you find yourself there. Some things ( matter) have to be let go in the pit as its not able to travel beyond there. Matter can only stay here in this realm where IMO hell is not far. This is where matter reigns and matter is the deceiver.

My parents were JW so the bible I have had the chance to read as a child, I read it, was bored, as a teen I read through it again, and from lack of belief in all it had to say cast it off. Reach the level of adult read it as if it were a Stephen King novel then and only then as a book of fiction did I enjoy the read.

I as well now have no belief in a mystical wizard that dictates are comings and goings, but did enjoy the pain, death and violence of the fiction once I took it for what it was.

SaneThinking

Originally posted by eleven44

The difference is...you ever seen an animal worrying? And, aside from a few animals that do store up food for the winter, have you seen any animals take MORE than what they need, based on the FEAR that there will not be enough in the future?
The bible specifically says the Lord helps those who help themselves. No one says hard work isn't necessary. But the worry and the fear...those are unnecessary.

Squirrels bury so many nuts that they can't find them all. Polar bears store up food in their bellies to last through hibernation. If these animals could think, wouldn't this constitute worrying? I have a picture for you. Should these creations of god worry about food and clothing? Too brutal to show here.

Do Not Worry About Food

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
I was raised Lutheran until I moved out of my parents house.

I'd have to wonder what Synod of the Lutheran Church you were a member of, as what your saying in the rest of your post is very far removed from what the Lutheran Church teaches, and is more akin to Catholicism.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
God himself did not create the Bible and hand it down from the heavens. Men did. Men with power and influence.

I would hardly call any of the early Church fathers men of power or influence, as a matter of fact, the majority of them were put to death because of their beliefs. The abuses you're talking about happened much later with the involvement of the Roman Catholic Church, and were what Martin Luther rebelled against.
Chruch Fathers

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
As anyone that looks at history can tell you, men with power and influence are concerned with one main thing, keeping their power and influence.

The RCC was like this, its true enough, but they could not “rewrite” the bible so they had to use Papal authority to change the interpretations of what was already written.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
I bet if Jesus were alive today, he would be much different than what has been portrayed in the NT. I somehow doubt that "Noone comes through the father except through me" would have been one of his tenets. I bet it read originally more like "noone comes to the father except through their own divine spark."

From someone claiming to be a Lutheran, this is a pretty shocking statement.
You should know that a man:

1) cannot save himself from even a single sin. As a sin is infinitely wrong to an infinitely perfect God, forgiveness can only be obtained by something of equal value. In this instance a sacrifice made by God himself on our behalf.
2) No one may come to salvation without the working of the Holy Spirit within them. You cannot save a single person, including yourself, without the Holy Spirit or Christ.
3) A man controls NOTHING about his life or salvation, its all in Gods hands.

These themes are throughout the Bible (in all translations), so I am unsure how you could have missed them. What you are talking about sounds a lot like Gnostic belief, which is why it was important for the early church fathers to keep that Greek mysticism out of the Christian Word. It sounds like you believe that you are in control of your salvation, when according to word, nothing could possibly be further from the truth. God is in control, not us.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
All without a pastor that is constantly telling you what God is, and without a church judging you on if you are living right. If I die today I would be confident that I would be with God because I want to.

You seem to be intertwining old Catholic dogma of “no salvation outside the church” with the idea that you can gain salvation outside of Christ and the Holy Spirit. These are two different subjects entirely, and while the first is possible, the latter is not.

“Justification through faith alone” is one of the cornerstones of the Lutheran Church, and goes back to Luther’s original argument with Rome about Indulgences.

Originally posted by Cancerwarrior
If you go strictly by the Bible, it tells you that God is some external authority figure that no matter what you do can never be pleased because you are "born in sin". The God I have come to know and love is not like that at all.

Again shocking coming from someone who claims to be a Lutheran, because this is exactly how Luther felt while he was a member of Roman Catholicism. He was very much against the RCC using “fire and brimstone” to scare people into submitting to the Church, and as a tactic to fleece them for money. I don't know how you could have missed the entire point of his argument about the sale of Indulgences...

Luther dedicated himself to monastic life, devoting himself to fasting, long hours in prayer, pilgrimage, and frequent confession. He would later remark, "If anyone could have gained heaven as a monk, then I would indeed have been among them." Luther described this period of his life as one of deep spiritual despair. He said, "I lost touch with Christ the Savior and Comforter, and made of him the jailor and hangman of my poor soul."

What you're describing to me is Catholicism, which makes me truely wonder if you were in fact a Lutheran as you claim. Maybe your family was ex-Roman Catholic, and they sent you to a Lutheran Church but erroniously taught you Catholic Dogma? None of these accusations you make against the Church hold any water in the Lutheran Faith.

Originally posted by manna2
reply to post by jiggerj

 

I pretty much live by trying to be prepared. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. I DO NOT live in fear

You offer a conflict in ideas. Am I the only one that sees this? Isn't preparing for the worst what worried people do? If you weren't worried, you wouldn't save money for a rainy day, stock up on food because a storm is coming, buy weapons to protect yourself for when TSHTF.

I guess it all depends on one's definition of worry.

reply to post by MamaJ


that is so true...MamaJ. I've worried about humanity for so long....and it grieves me daily that I just cry deeply I cannot help but feel their distress.

I suppose this is being so intuitive that it is hard to handle knowing, but guard it like a precious gift. It can be misled, and I know you are aware but I write this for others who aren't. So they might know.

Knowing God is not just for the elect, humanity is the elect. In that same vein, are our own personal jesuses and our own order of melchizadeks? I look through many religions and cherry pick which combined with the intuition of what's light and what's not light to guide....Hopefully, we'll be able to integrate all religions to the same goal, which is light. And this is an intense individual function...to their own self be true. i suppose...

it's not easy in fact it's hard as hell...literally and metaphorically, and I wonder if the magnitude of the challenges we face is in direct proportion to just how close we are in finding truth and light? It seems as my ego tries to rise up and make as much fuss as it can when I am sleuthing around to find light and on the right path...then i have to use my sword of God and slay it...until it doesn't remain....I so long for that time...and it's up to me to keep pacing myself but there is no other greater journey than the one which is to find God...He's there. And as Jesus said:

Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

his heaven will pass away, and the one above it will pass away. The dead are not alive, and the living will not die. In the days when you consumed what is dead, you made it what is alive. When you come to dwell in the light, what will you do? On the day when you were one you became two. But when you become two, what will you do?

It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'Here it is' or 'There it is.' Rather, the Kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it.

Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered.

Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All. (2).

If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by jiggerj

 

If you look into how the Gospels were put together it makes more sense. Mark is the earliest complete Gospel we have and focuses less on the miracles and supernatural aspects, the later the Gospel the greater the embellishment.

Jesus is very hit or miss on moral advice. On the one hand he tells you to love your enemies but in another verse he tells his followers that only those who love HIM more than their own families are worthy of him.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

Now admittedly the word hate isn't the best translation for the above verse. A version in the 10th chapter of Matthew has the more gentle translation:

“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

But still that's a pretty messed up thing for the son of God to say, the idea that he's going to be jealous if you happen to love your own family more than him. Especially in the context of modern Christianity, you don't even get to meet Jesus or hang out with him in person the way his disciples did, you have to love him more than your own family without ever having met him.

Also, the zombies rising from the grave in the verse you mentioned, it's often overlooked by Christians entirely. I honestly didn't know it was in the Bible at all until, in my late teens, I endeavored to read the entire thing from front to back. Consequently reading the entire Bible, and actually paying attention to what I was reading, began the downfall of my faith. The amount of cognitive dissonance present to believe this stuff is immense.

Wow! A million imaginary stars for bringing this to the discussion.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Glad to see you took my advice

If I may add: Read it with an open mind. Try to see what the core message being presented is. It is (in my humble view), worthwhile. I would suggest that the world would be a far better place if more people took it to heart

What good is the core message if the means of presenting it is an outright lie? The core message is one that anyone, of any faith, or any non-faith can say. Here is the message: Be nice.

Okay, fine. But if someone steals my coat and I do nothing, then someone (or the same person) will then steal my wallet, shoes, car, hat... If we turn the other cheek, the little bullies in school will drive our children to suicide.

There's a big difference between sacrificing for others and being a door mat.

Originally posted by jiggerj
In another thread it was suggested that I read the New Testament. Admittedly, it's been years since I've done this, but I used to read it often. Like the religious today, I allowed my eyes to glaze over the utterly ridiculous parts. I don't do that anymore. For instance, the following are considered the wise words of Jesus:

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?

If this is such great advice why don't we all just quit our jobs. Let's teach our kids that when they grow up they have no need to save money for the future, no need to spend money on food and clothing. Yep, real super advice.
----------------------------------------
And then there's this from the NT.

Matthew 27: The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs, and after Jesus’ resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

Really? I mean, REALLY? And the mature religious adults with an IQ over 80 believe this happened? Come on now.
-------------------------------------
Religion has been an ongoing conspiracy against the masses for thousands of years. Isn't it time to really look at what you're buying into?

edit on 9/4/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

The relentless onslaught against belief in God on ATS continues..... what is the point of your thread? This just sounds like mindless b!tching and whining to me......

If you don't agree with the bible then don't fking read it.
Don't talk about reading it.
Don't go read about others talking about it or talking about reading it, and then come in here and start crying about what other people believe in, when YOU DON'T

As for your last sentence, that sounds like great advice. Maybe you should take it?

reply to post by trekwebmaster


Maybe time is not a line, but a circle.

History will repeat itself " in time" until the nature of creation is going in good order. When a plant does not grow in the good order of nature, it dies. We see this. We know this.

Right now I think we see light and dark fighting. Each trying to win, but we know how the story ends. The good prevails in the end as darkness cannot override the light. Matter cannot trap light. We know this.

The end of the story we come full circle ( in time) and are able and DO choose LIFE and Jesus says to follow his ways IF we want LIFE. I believe his soul has lived many life times and was the first and last Adam.

The life we experience on earth are stories and expressions constantly either helping or hindering our growth and it's up to us to go in the good order of nature in everything we do and say. We are not perfect, thank God the story of Jesus is expressed in all ways so we may have the chance of returning life after life on earth until we reach atonement.

Time is running out though and I think that's why see so many people inhabiting the Earth " at this time".

There is about to be a show down and the light will prevail. The darkness cannot escape the light, so says science and so says the end of the story. :-)

reply to post by defcon5


I never said I was a practicing Lutheran. I said I used to be the first 20 years of my life. Big difference. And there is really not that much difference fundamentally from the Catholics or the Lutherans. At least to me there is not. They are both very ritualistic and don't allow you to ask questions. Instead of Religion I've found that if I nurture my own personal relationship with God it is much better for me spiritually. But many people don't seem to know that they can do this. They feel that church is the only way to go because thats what they have been told their whole lives. If thats what works for you then good for you. It does'nt work for me however. My church is on the porch with my coffee in the mornings. I don't have to be judged, give money to anyone, confess my sins to anyone and God listens to me just as much as he does anyone else that seeks him.

And I do believe that I am ultimately in control of my Salvation. If I turn away from God, then I will suffer an existence without him. As long as i want to be with God however, he will never ever turn me away. Thats another problem I have with the church in general. They say that God has a special place for all the sinners who do evil, full of fire and brimstone and suffering where he will send you for all eternity to burn in fire 7 times hotter than the hottest flame on earth........but he loves you......lol. Turning away from God is the only real unforgivable sin IMO. I guess I do have some Gnostic beliefs in my personal spirituality, and I'm glad I do. Works for me.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Glad to see you took my advice

If I may add: Read it with an open mind. Try to see what the core message being presented is. It is (in my humble view), worthwhile. I would suggest that the world would be a far better place if more people took it to heart

What good is the core message if the means of presenting it is an outright lie? The core message is one that anyone, of any faith, or any non-faith can say. Here is the message: Be nice.

Okay, fine. But if someone steals my coat and I do nothing, then someone (or the same person) will then steal my wallet, shoes, car, hat... If we turn the other cheek, the little bullies in school will drive our children to suicide.

There's a big difference between sacrificing for others and being a door mat.

Yeah, that's a hard one and I do understand.

My thinking and my ways are different than Jesus. He through many lifetimes reached atonement. We are doing the same thing. Trying.

I cannot allow a bully to bully. That doesn't mean I go to the school and beat his butt though. Lol

There are other ways and Jesus showed us the other ways.

As far as the mother and father issue you were talking about ....

Jesus just wanted to convey that no matter what material you are attached to, leave it and detach yourself from it. When he said follow me it was so they could be a part of the teaching first hand. I would do it in a heart beat! He is teaching us to not be attached to matter, no matter what it is.

Jesus had reached the point where he remembered home and what this life on earth is really about.... Deception at its finest.

We live in a material world ( matter surrounds) and where we are from and who we truly are is not material but spiritual. We have a vessel called a body and brain, but this is not who we truly are. We have been trapped by matter and eventually our light will allow us to be free from it. Jesus spirit has shown throughout time that if we lose the sensations of this world we can become free quicker. We won't have to keep coming back over and over.

The story is about to end though, or so I think.... Getting pretty dang close.

You either represent light or you represent darkness and the material world will make you choose. Make sure to not be attached to anything...... Everything you have will have to be let go of in the end.

Matter deceives so your spiritual self has got to be on its toes during this " time".

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Jesus is very hit or miss on moral advice. On the one hand he tells you to love your enemies but in another verse he tells his followers that only those who love HIM more than their own families are worthy of him.

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

Now admittedly the word hate isn't the best translation for the above verse. A version in the 10th chapter of Matthew has the more gentle translation:

“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me."

But still that's a pretty messed up thing for the son of God to say, the idea that he's going to be jealous if you happen to love your own family more than him. Especially in the context of modern Christianity, you don't even get to meet Jesus or hang out with him in person the way his disciples did, you have to love him more than your own family without ever having met him.

Hi Titen-Sxull

Regarding the above, I agree that when first read it sounds very harsh, despotic and against our natural feelings.

However, for me the above means that to love your family or friends is to still be full of human emotion and ego.

The ego/disbeliever/demon/defect/pyschological aggregate of love is a very powerful energy that fuels our emotions.

It is not until we have defeated/killed/erased this ego, along with all our others, that we can enter into 'heaven' and be in the presence of the Father and incarnate the Christ, there is no place for animal/human ego or emotion in this realm.

I believe this is backed up when Jesus stated;

"I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

I don't beleive that Jesus was talking about material wealth or riches, but a man that is rich in ego and emotion.

This is only my opinion and interpretation...

Gnobody

reply to post by jiggerj


Jigger, turning the other cheek? Does not mean what you may think it does...

Turning the other cheek means NEVER TO ALLOW THEM to slap you in the first-place...not turning another cheek if they slap you once to allow them to slap you again...

The only way we NEVER allow it, is to teach the right way so no one has to slap the other cheek...it's about sacrificing or compromising your TRUTH. When you KNOW you are correct, NEVER turn the other cheek....or allow them to cause you to sacrifice the truth, because when you do, we get the infamous where does life begin argument like Pro-Choice VS Pro-Life. It isn't an argument because I KNOW the TRUTH is life begins when an egg and sperm unite and it progresses from there to birth. To deny this is to deny life and truth. Some say it begins 40 days after then the soul comes in, but if you don't have the egg and sperm to unite, it will not follow that a new life will be born.

So there you see the argument is invalid. It's the part we need to see. Instead of arguing over what to do with people who get pregnant is not the issue. The entire argument is based on teaching those who might do whatever to produce a child that they must be responsible for their actions, which might produce a child. And there goes the violinist argument, and if they do make an incorrect choice to do that and get pregnant, this includes both men and women, it takes two to tango, both are equally responsible, not just one or the other. But if they do get pregnant, then it is a shame to have a life aborted. A more fitting resolution to this would be to be responsible for an incorrect choice by dealing with being pregnant for 9 months or assuming the responsibility of fatherhood, and if the two parties cannot do that, then the best thing would be to allow the child to be adopted into a family which can. Not destroy that life. That's denying life, because the unborn child has the potential to have and enjoy a "life as ours," even if inside the womb. You cannot refute truth.

reply to post by trekwebmaster


Life begins when the soul enters and that is after consciousness stage, the last trimester. Sure AI life begins early, (AI is a toaster and does not think or feel at all) but to compare the developing cells and tiny undeveloped embryo within the first trimester, and most certainly less than 7 or 8 weeks, with the entire life and well being of the mother, it's not comparative. I know what I just said is the truth of the situation, and that harming people by insisting they shouldnt have a choice at least in the stage where abortions happen naturally, is very wrong.

I remember since I was around 2 or 3, shooting in here like a beam of light, a ray of light, and taking my mothers womb.

Some things need to be medial and not religious, especially health care issues.