Theosophy and Christianity

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Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

I think the idea of Theosophy is to TRY to understand God's work, while knowing that we might never truly UNDERSTAND it. Just like we can TRY to be perfect, but we know that is un-obtainable. Just like so many other things in life, the journey is where the lessons come from. (IMHO)

Well, Network dude, my opinion is the same as your own here. That is exactly what the Esoteric Teachings are all about, finding an understanding of the Divine Source, and learning the mechanics and design of the Universe, from the biggest part to it's smallest part, microbial. It is gaining an understanding of the other races and species that live in our Universe, how they live, and the design of their cultures. It learning how to be a Creator, plain and simple.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by JesuitGarlic

 

Is the symbol of the Fish not a reference to Pisces? Is the Fish not a symbol of Christianity???

Sorry, but not originally....

The pre-Christian history of the fish symbol:

The fish symbol has been used for millennia worldwide as a religious symbol associated with the Pagan Great Mother Goddess. It is the outline of her vulva. The fish symbol was often drawn by overlapping two very thin crescent moons. One represented the crescent shortly before the new moon; the other shortly after, when the moon is just visible. The Moon is the heavenly body that has long been associated with the Goddess, just as the sun is a symbol of the God.

The link between the Goddess and fish was found in various areas of the ancient world: In China, Great Mother Kwan-yin often portrayed in the shape of a fish.

In India, the Goddess Kali was called the "fish-eyed one"

In Egypt, Isis was called the Great Fish of the Abyss

In Greece the Greek word "delphos" meant both fish and womb. The word is derived from the location of the ancient Oracle at Delphi who worshipped the original fish goddess, Themis. The later fish Goddess, Aphrodite Salacia, was worshipped by her followers on her sacred day, Friday. They ate fish and engaging in orgies. From her name comes the English word "salacious" which means lustful or obscene. Also from her name comes the name of our fourth month, April. In later centuries, the Christian church adsorbed this tradition by requiring the faithful to eat fish on Friday - a tradition that was only recently abandoned.

In ancient Rome Friday is called "dies veneris" or Day of Venus, the Pagan Goddess of Love.

Throughout the Mediterranean, mystery religions used fish, wine and bread for their sacramental meal.

In Scandinavia, the Great Goddess was named Freya; fish were eaten in her honor. The 6th day of the week was named "Friday" after her.

In the Middle East, the Great Goddess of Ephesus was portrayed as a woman with a fish amulet over her genitals.

The fish symbol:

"... was so revered throughout the Roman empire that Christian authorities insisted on taking it over, with extensive revision of myths to deny its earlier female-genital meanings...Sometimes the Christ child was portrayed inside the vesica, which was superimposed on Mary's belly and obviously represented her womb, just as in the ancient symbolism of the Goddess." 4 Another author writes: "The fish headdress of the priests of Ea [a Sumero-Semitic God] later became the miter of the Christian bishops."

The symbol itself, the eating of fish on Friday and the association of the symbol with deity were all taken over by the early Church from Pagan sources. Only the sexual component was deleted.

source
Reduce it down to it's common element and true origin, it always points back to the Old Religion.

May I suggest that you research all of the Christian symbols? I think you will find all were taken from earlier Pagan sources.

reply to post by autowrench


Everyone knows this. Everyone who wants to actually KNOW what they're talking about, anyway...

reply to post by autowrench


Yes, thank you for the post Auto....this is roughly what I learnt as well (but not with so much historical detail) about this supposed fish symbol attached to 'Christianity'. The basic gist was that it is actually a symbol of the female womb, a pagan sex worship symbol and nothing that innately refers to the astrological age of Christianity.

It is also my understanding that the current signs of the zodiac we use are entirely modern (something like a few hundred years old only), that the actual change from Pisces to Aquarius occurs in more like 700-800 years from now and that the end of Aries was purposely fitted to make it seem Pisces is associated with Jesus. So the whole 'theology' that Christianity must change (or perish) to enter this New Age supposedly beginning at the end of the year or there abouts it completely concocted up. What are your thoughts on this Auto, do you see any kind of a deliberate agenda here of 'fitting' the data to help create the desired outcome?

If anyone was going to put any weight behind this astro-theology beliefs then it seems more logical in that sense they would have to 'fit' their beliefs to this age of Pisces which is to last 700 or so more years
---------
requested link to the war pictures
picture 1: French dead at Argonne
picture 2: German and Allied dead together in the trench they both fought for
picture 3: An Allied soldier stands amid a field of dead

Auto, those pictures are there because in the words of Bailey (who had the messages channeled to her directly) their own god claims credit/responsibility for those wars as I evidenced from the Bailey quotes in my post on page 16.
------
Give me a few days and I will try gather together some info on how the Jesuits were behind the orchestration of the American civil war just like WW1, WW2 and other revolutions of dictators suggested. Christian killing Christian in the civil war is the kind of thing that the head of the Hierarchy/Custodian of the Plan salivates over trying to achieve as much as possible. Seeing I know the Jesuits were behind those two great wars last century I have no desire to give any kind of allegiance to this angel of Theosophy that celebrates in death and is in league with these most detestable people (Jesuits) on the face of the planet. And it completely alludes me why anyone else would want to be in league with 'the Plan' as well....(other than glossing over such 'minor details' because 95% of the time one is being led down the garden path with pleasant sounding ideas, breaking down the rational barriers of ones critical brain if they were to really consider it in its unfiltered standalone naked truth...well that is my 2 cents worth anyway)

The vesica piscis (sign of the fish)
smphillips.8m.com...
(#12)
has a stupendous geometrical potential, recently revealed for the first time, that encodes the nature of whatever is a manifestation of the divine blueprint - from a subatomic particle to man and beyond. It generates a hitherto unknown geometrical counterpart to what in Kabbalah is called the "Tree of Life" (Otz Chiim):
smphillips.8m.com...
(#13)
This is the geometrical representation of what might be called "God's DNA" that encodes the nature of all levels of reality, matter, etc. Spend the next six months studying how the encyption has now been deciphered at the above website.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


I think, perhaps, the age of Pisces designed the arrival of Jesus (assuming this story to be true, of course) rather than Jesus designating it as the age of Pisces. One determined the other, not the other way around.

reply to post by network dude


Sense enough is God's motif for man...

EXAMPLE: Genesis: Ch. 10 Vr. 8
Cush became the father of Nimrod; he was the first on earth to become a mighty warrior.
He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, "Like Nimrod a mighty hunter before the Lord."

If... Wisdom was evident... Would you conclude:

Thus... because there is no mention of Woman... we now know we are left to ourselves to solve, apart from the great image of Nimrod, the most important "Paradox" of all, which is "WOMAN!"

Is that not theosophy?!?

reply to post by Pinocchio


No man on Earth, present or past, has a mind great enough to understand and explain the mysteries of the universe in their entirety. As much as we may wish to pretend that we hold some inkling of the answer, we can't truly know at this time.

Accept this, and you're on your way.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

No man on Earth, present or past, has a mind great enough to understand and explain the mysteries of the universe in their entirety. As much as we may wish to pretend that we hold some inkling of the answer, we can't truly know at this time.

Accept this, and you're on your way.

Acceptance is not a requisite.
The topic you suggest is not refered to.
The idea I imposed is a biblical exam. When you read "Thus... Nimrod..." You are left to decide which particular you are going to settle for next.
If you stopped and pictured a mighty hunter in his/your grand imagery... consider thereafter... that "THE MOST IMPORTANT PARADOX IS... WOMAN!"

After that... conclude she is more acceptable to you and God from God for you from God because that is the nature and design of TRUE THEOSOPHY!

reply to post by Pinocchio


The problem here is not my lack of coherence, but your lack of comprehension. I answered your question. It's not my fault if you don't like the answer. Perhaps you shouldn't have asked.

Oh, and one more thing: was your post, above this one, supposed to make sense? Because it didn't. Not in the least.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


TY Finity...
No offense intended. IMHO
Its not suppose to make sense to you.
Very few are indeed those who know my intent. My apologies for your disinterestedness.
It says of you that you are not needing of my particular affection for theosophy.
You fare well... I'd hate to forward you in a path you shall never tread.

And... the post is highly active. Not meant for comprehension.

reply to post by Pinocchio


You make far too many assumptions, my friend. Disinterested? Hardly. Confused by your lack of coherent explanation? Yes. Not needing of your particular understanding? To deny any understanding is to narrow the road of the mind. A path I will never tread? If it leads to the truth, I hope to tread it swiftly when the time comes.

So...As I understand it, you are trying to be funny in declaring females to be the greater paradox of the ages. This is off-topic, so forgive me if I don't pursue that line of humor.

Can you explain more clearly the point you're attempting to make? A little less condescension would be helpful too.

I will answer you tomorrow...I may not return to the computer this evening, as a special birthday cookout calls for my attention. The cook is a rather phenomenal artist with his culinary skills, so I dare not miss it. Feel free to take as long as you need typing a cohesive explanation of your take on theosophy. And remember: every coin has two sides, and so it is with theosophy, which has as many sides as it has students.

Have a wonderful evening, ATS.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Pinocchio

 

You make far too many assumptions, my friend. Disinterested? Hardly. Confused by your lack of coherent explanation? Yes. Not needing of your particular understanding? To deny any understanding is to narrow the road of the mind.

As I understand it, you are trying to be funny in declaring females to be the greater paradox of the ages. This is off-topic, so forgive me if I don't pursue that line of humor.

Can you explain more clearly the point you're attempting to make? A little less condescension would be helpful too.

Yes...
Without further a do...
My posts were directed to another ATS member.

edit on 20-8-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Pinocchio


Those last three lines you "quoted" were never typed by me. The mods can verify that particular account, and I don't appreciate the sort of deceit you think you can practice on this site.

I would imagine you could use your nose for an oar by now.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Good Pal Finity...

I meant well.
Let it be know that... yes... it is true. You did not type the last sentence. It was I, Pinocchio.
Whilst I hastily put forth my post... i failed to type outside the braket(s). Thus... I ruined a good thing.
Sorry for any inconvenience. Truly.

Now...
What I was intending to get out to you... was/is that my originnal post was not for your benefit. It was not to be considered by you. Forgive me for entertaining the idea and stringing you along.
I mean not to present anymore the idea than was orginally posted for the other ATSian.
If you get it... well enough for you. If not, I can not openly discuss the issue because it has no actual tone herein when I define it.

Your frustration, if I can call it that, is acceptable, but to a degree.
Let me yet apologize again. Sorry.
We are all herein ATSians and we want our experience(s) to be good ones. Yay?
But typos are and should be considered as possiblities. Not as malice.

TY Finity.

reply to post by network dude


"In a sense, this is what most of us here are doing. We are searching for answers. Except the devout Christians it seems. The devout born agains seem to be directly opposed to the searching for any answers."

Here's Some Resources...Seek and Find...

www.theomatics.com...

www.kjvbible.org...

www.wordworx.co.nz...

www.reasons.org...

www.asis.com...

www.biblemaths.com...

reply to post by JesuitGarlic

Give me a few days and I will try gather together some info on how the Jesuits were behind the orchestration of the American civil war just like WW1, WW2 and other revolutions of dictators suggested.

Don't do it for me, I am an old hat at research. I do not know this
"Bailey," but you cannot take the opinion of one and apply it to the atrocities of the Nazis. There was a lot more involved there that you know. Read this book:
The Rise of the Fourth Reich: The Secret Societies That Threaten to Take Over America by our esteemed member, Jim Marrs.
The Jesuits could not hold a candle to some of the evil men out there, and I just cannot give any one group credit, for there is a higher power who is driving, and controlling them, and it is reptilian in nature. My take anyway, form your own opinion, but please, read the book. It will open your eyes to many things not known before.
Cheers, Auto

I have just come across a very interesting article today, the contents I would like to share with you all. It is about someone who infiltrated a members only Theosophy seminar given by one of their high ranking movers and shakers and took down notes and quotes from the seminar as well as asking some pertinent questions to the speaker. Because I don't agree with all the Biblical interpretations this person tries to place on the material presented I will rather just give the most interesting quotes he wrote down from the speaker alone.

Notes from infiltrator of a seminar in Boston Massachusetts August 18th 1991 titled "Possible and probable events of the future" by Bill Lambert (Director of the New England district Theosophical Society)

I will designate when Bill Lambert speaks, when this note taker questions him and when I am giving my own interpretation of what is being said.

I will skip part I of the seminar (of little significance) and head off straight for some quotes from Lambert in part II and onwards:

II. New Jerusalem Covenant Project

"Sometime between 1985-2010, the following scenario will unfold, depending only on the right set of circumstances:
* Moslem and Jewish areas in Jerusalem will be combined with Christian to create the New Jerusalem Covenant
* All religions will convene to celebrate three (3) religious festivals simultaneously..."
...
[I am skipping the part where these festivals are outlined]
...
"Thus, when the three religious conferences and the three political/business conferences are simultaneously held, a grand merger of all forces will occur world-wide that will move the world in any desired direction."

"Then, and only then, will it be possible to build a combination Temple/Church/Mosque in Jerusalem."

"any purely political settlement in the Middle East would not, by itself, bring peace. In other words, a purely political settlement would leave the religious nature of the problem unsolved."

"Any permanent solution to the Middle East conflict would also have to see the religious portion of the problem solved. Once this religious problem is solved, then the power and influence of the Orthodox Jews in Israel would permanently decline."

"The impetus toward this type of settlement is made possible only because of a general fear of war. This fear of war must be maintained until the desired political and religious changes have been instituted."

"At the proper moment in history, the Pope will visit the combined Jewish/Christian/Moslem sector of Jerusalem to announce that all religions should be combined into one. This action will then finally break the Middle East logjam."
source

My interpretation on this section of info:
- Theosophy is very interested in discussing how to combine Islam, Christianity and Judaism into 1 religion
- Their desired agenda seems to be to bring peace...by what mechanism though is this achieved...that they must maintain a general fear of war until the desired changes have been instituted.
- So they must hype up fear and instigation that these religions are the problem...compel people's opinions by fear...don't let truth come in the way of the noble pursuit of 'peace'
- Somehow they know that the Pope will pop up his head at the right time to combine these religions...obviously this is no surprise that Theosophy would know or promulgate these ideas of what the Pope will get up to because their top hierarchy all controlled by the same people and supernatural entities (like Bailey already allude to that they would all see eye-to-eye eventually)

Are regular Theosophist's happy to know of the Papal power (aka the most detestable people on the planet and throughout Earth's history) being in league with you here? Are not any red flags going off in your head or does your desire to see the end of Christianity (which the Papacy doesn't represent but only through their ill gotten power claim to speak for it)/Judiasm (those that can't see that Yeshua was their prophesied messiah)/ and Islam (created with the help of the Roman Catholic Church to wipe out the eastern Christian end of their empire which would have nothing to do with the apostate teachings of the Papacy)?

Lambert continues in part III:

III. Review of the Establishment of the New World Order

"Energies want to flow from the Hierarchy to earth to produce the physical manifestation of the Christ; but, such flow can only occur when humanity raises its collective consciousness to be properly awakened receptors." (Page 617-618, Externalisation of the Hierarchy, paraphrased by Mr. Lambert)

Next, the note-taker asks Lambert a question:

At this point, I raised my hand to ask Mr. Lambert, 'You spoke earlier about the Pope going to Jerusalem; when Lord Maitreya makes his appearance, there will be three types of people:
1. Those whose consciousness has been properly raised so they can readily accept him;
2. Those whose consciousness has been raised somewhat but not so high that they can readily
and immediately accept him, but they might be able to accept him after further enlightenment;
3. Those who will never accept him.'

I continued: 'What responsibility do the leaders of the world's religions have toward those members of their flock who are of group number two? Will they step forward to publicly urge group number two people to accept the Christ?'

Bill's answer was that the acceptance of the Christ was completely an individual affair.

I then tried again to get Bill to state that one of the leaders of the world's religion would step forward to play the role of the Biblical False Prophet. I said, 'Back to the Pope for a moment, Bill. You stated that, at the right moment, the Pope would go to Jerusalem. Surely the Pope is a proper receptor to the Christ'

At this point, Bill nodded his head affirmatively that the Pope was a proper receptor to the Christ. This is the most direct acknowledgement by a influential person involved in the planning for the appearance of Christ that the current Pope is ready and waiting for the appearance of The Christ. This acknowledgement also points to the Roman Catholic Pope as the False Prophet, because Bill stated, very pointedly, that the preparation for the New World Order religion was being paved by the Ecumenical Movement, which is being spear-headed by the Pope.
source

Are Theosophist's happy with your leaders saying that 'the Pope was the proper receptor to the Christ' (of Theosophy)? Surely such a thought should make you vomit right...I know it would surely make me vomit (thus a protestant!)

continuing on...

Bill then explained the fate of those members of Group #3, those whose personal consciousness was not now, nor could ever be, raised sufficiently to accept the Christ. Bill likened them to a person who had spent his entire life in a totally darkened room. If a sudden, intense light were to shine into this room, the person's eyes would not be able to endure the light. The person would try to flee the light and go into another room which was dark. Persons of Group #3 will "elect to leave for another room". (Lambert's exact words)

At this point, I raised my hand and asked, 'How do these people do this, Bill? No one can simply declare his spirit to leave this world. Do these people commit suicide?' Bill answered emphatically, "NO". He said, "I do not know how it will happen, but these people will leave this dimension."

D.K. (one of Alice Bailey's Guiding Spirits) has revealed that, "when the Christ comes forward, he will establish his throne on earth. However, the door where evil dwells must be kept shut." D.K. identifies this evil as being the "lowest level of human nature where we tap into our primal, base nature."

[the note-taker's own interpretation next which is in line with the above statements and I agree with in what it means]
In other words, this evil consists of the members of Group #3, whose consciousness has not and cannot be properly raised so they can be proper receptors of the Christ, i.e., born-again Christians.
source

Hmmmm, so those who will never accept him (because he is the anti-christ as outlined perfectly in the prophecies of the Bible bringing about the end times great test), people like me will disappear from this dimension (the Bible tells us we will be pursued and hunted down to be killed because of our belief and obedience to Jesus alone) and that I represent the evil that must be kept shut and 'the lowest level of human nature where we tap into our primal, base nature."

Not a very glowing characterization of my kind indeed...but not surprising that the people exposing the plans of the Vatican (and their history of filth) trying to waken everyone else up through peaceful means to what is going on and help bring them to find eternal life too would be regarded as 'evil' and 'the lowest levels of human nature' (while those that we are exposing credit themselves as supporters of using war, fear and dictatorship....kinda sounds like the biggest brainwashed hypocrisy on the planet, No?)

Last couple of sections now...quoting Lambert speaking:

VI. "UFO's and Aliens are part of the New World Order.
They are benevolent beings which will aid mankind in attaining the goal of becoming one humanity. They will appear at the proper time to enable mankind to make that Quantum Leap of Collective Consciousness -- when the Anti-Christ appears."

VII. "Super-Natural Capabilities Of The Anti-Christ
Then, Mr. Lambert revealed that, "when Lord Maitreya appears, he will appear as different beings to different people.
* He will appear as a man to a man and as a woman to a woman.
* He will appear as a white to a white, as a black to a black, as an Indian to an Indian, etc."

So now this leading Theosophist is actually saying it straight out that the 'christ' of Theosophy is the 'Anti-Christ' (of the Bible). Well we all know what happens to those that choose to follow the Anti-Christ in the end right, their name is taken out of the Book of Life and then, after a time, because of their choices receive the same as Sodom and Gomorrah (but this time both body AND spirit are erased from existence).

If the Bible is accurate in its warnings specifically about this 'anti-christ' in foretelling him and what he would do 2000 years in the past in the book of Revelation (as God is outside of time and can see the future), would you not think that the Word would be accurate in speaking of the promise of heaven and eternal life as well. We know that the Bible is accurate on speaking on what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah and the locations of the cities have been found and the sulfur balls (brimstone) found was between 20-40 times more pure than anything that naturally occurs on Earth (thus God's supernatural Judgment on them). Same with the site of the Red Sea Crossing, that has been found too. Do you think that the Bible is just a story of mythologies and religion is about picking which myth story suits you the most or is there some absolute truth somewhere in the world?

Sodom and Gomorrah sites found
Red Sea crossing location found (with all the wheels of the Egyptian chariots found strewn from one side of the crossing path to the other)

reply to post by autowrench


Oh I know that; I was just pointing out that Christianity does indeed use Fish symbolism.

Good quote though