North Korea directs missiles towards Australia

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Again, it's why we grudgingly join in on the USA's little overseas excursions where we both know we don't belong.

You are correct...and it is a good deal. Split Infinity

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Garfee

 

Just stating a fact in plain language....if one has to gather what you may or maynot have inferred.....well....then they might not undrstand what you are saying. I posted it in the simplest of terms.

Australia has no ability to defend itself from any major power....thus...the deal with the U.S.

Not much else can be inferred from that other than what the words say. Split Infinity

Australia defended itself against the Japanese. What don't you understand?! Japan was a major power in WW2.

A couple of shoot out of a small recon force is NOT the same as a FULL OUT WAR with Japan. You were spared this because the U.S. won at MIDWAY. It all came down to that battle. If the U.S. Navy lost....Australia would have faced the brunt of a full out Japanese Invasion since the war was about RESOURCES. Japan did not have the Iron Deposits to continue to build their war machine...neither did it have OIL. The U.S. slapped Japan by not selling them any Amerian Minerals, Elements or Oil after they Invaded most of South East Asia.

You cannot make the statement that Australia was in any real sizable battle with Japanese Troops. If you want to talk about REAL BATTLES....google TARAWA or GUAM never mind the real big ones like Iwo Jima...6891 U.S. Marines KIA...of the 22,000 Japanese Troops on the Island at the start of hostilities...only 212 survived.

OKINAWA...7373 Americans KIA on land...at sea around Okinowa 5000 U.S. Sailors and other Soldiers Killed In Action...KIA. Japanese KIA on Okinawa.....127,000 plus since some were incinerated. The Japanese fought with almost NO SURRENDERS. The fact that the Japanese would fight to the last Man, Woman or Child...was the direct reason for the Nuclear Bombings...remember...more Japanese died in the Fire Bombing of Tokyo than at Hiroshima....and the U.S. had to drop TWO NUCLEAR BOMBS....before Japan would surrender. The Pentagon had determined a Direct Invasion of the Japanese Mainland could cost over 1 Million U.S. Soldiers lives and 20 to possibly 40 Million Japanese Deaths.

In my opinion....and especially with the way Japan fought viciously to the last Soldier....the Nuclear Bombs being dropped SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES! As bad as that sounds...it is VERY true.

Now...tell me about this huge Australian/Japanese Battle. I have no doubt the Aussie fought VALIANTLY....but please...do not think for one second that all of Australia would have fallen if the U.S. Navy had lost at MIDWAY!
Split Infinity

reply to post by Garfee

The Worlds largest donator of Foreign Aid is the UNITED STATES.

The Worlds largest CIVILIAN DONATOR....ordinary people sending a few dollars here or there to help another country feed their kids or help with education or innoculation and health care...is the UNITED STATES....by a margin so great it should embarrass the rest of the other countries that have a bit of wealth.

You can google this....it is common knowledge....I...MYSELF....have been on several...JOBS....where it made me sick to my stomach to see Warlords who stole Millions upon Millions of Bags of USAID GRAIN and othe food BAGS....and stockpile them as they sell them to the dying of starvation populous for huge amouts of money for little food. The Bags are White with a partial Red and Blue with White stars partial depiction of the Flag of the UNITED STATES.

So don't lecture ME about how the U.S. is not the Largest Donor of FOOD or AID or WATER or PROTECTION when we can reasonably help. You sit there and type about how pissed off you are that Australia should not be helping the U.S. Militarily and how the World does not need us....you know JACK S#!%!

We can't do everything all the time and it has cost us dearly...but you make me sick with this Anti-American...OH....we would be better off with out the U.S.A. Well...YOU WOULDN'T! Your Country would have been part of Japan for a while until we finally Retooled for War if we had lost at MIDWAY....but we WON! THUS...YOU WON!

If you think that your FREEDOM comes for FREE...ask the Thousands of Souls who lost their lives in WWII and if you take that FREEDOM for granted and do not protect it....but have the GOOD FORTUNE of a SUPER POWER that actually likes you and would be there for you....no matter what....AND YOU ALL KNOW THAT....and then even knowing that U.S. Soldiers, Airmen and Sailors...would DIE TO PROTECT YOU....without even a thought for their own lives....and you DISHONOR THEM by saying....WE DON'T NEED YOU! Well then....SHAME ON YOU! AND ALL LIKE YOU!

You have a Country that possesses NUCLEAR WEAPONS and is Launching ICBM'S in your general direction....and you think of it as NO BIG DEAL? What if...and there is a 20% Chance this could happen...North Korea...with it's New and inexperienced Leader...attemps a boarder skirmish...AGAIN...with South Korea....and the North goes a bit too far which causes the South to retaliate HARD...and a WAR breaks out...and because for examples purpose...Australia tells the U.S. to F" OFF! and tells the U.S. we don't need you! The U.S. takes exception and moves it's Carrier Groups with it's Aegis Missle/Satellite Destroying Cruisers to positions that are more advantageous to protecting Japan, Taiwan...and even ALASKA...but since Noth Korea ICBM tech has a range that can only make it to Japan, Taiwan or Australia and knows that the U.S. Carriers and Cruisers are positioned to destroy their Nuclear Tipped ICBM...so they decide...since they are going down...and Nuking the South is too close and will irradiate them...and Australia has told the U.S. to F' OFF! THEY LAUNCH A NUKE AT AUSTRALIA! They can hit it....it is in range and the ICBM could avoid the U.S. Cruisers ABM's if N.Korea launched a surprising vector.

Total propability of this scenario....ending with a HIT on Australian Land anywhere...50%...if the Carrier Groups were not in possition to defend Australia. So...GO AHEAD! FLIP A COIN! Split Infinity

Originally posted by Jace26

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Garfee

 

Australia has no ability to defend itself from any major power.

LOL you idiot, Australia virtually on its own in WW2 defeated all of the Japanese invading forces. This was at a time when Australia only had 7 million people up against one of (at the time) worlds superpowers.

Today we have over 23 million people and a proper professional army with technology exceeding that of Asia and in some circumstances even America.

You are not worried about an ICBM that could possibly hit your country anywhere including a major city or say a school or a park full of kids....an ICBM launched by a country that HAS NUCLEAR WEAPONS....and very poor aiming abilities so even if they are only trying a scare tactic and aiming to have this Missle just fall short of Australia or Overfly it....and the unthinkable happens and people or children die....and you decry the U.S. Navies ability to shoot it down...as if in your mind...North Korea is just PLAYING!

NOW WHO'S THE IDIOT!?! Not ME! Split Infinity

Originally posted by DonaldDI doubt that Jace26 is brainwashed

~SheopleNation states: I don't. Course Nationalism is blind. I understand though and respect that.

more than likely frustrated with how people interpret historical events.

~SheopleNation states: Yeah well opinions very when it comes to interpreting historical events. That's why the saying goes, The victors write the history books. However, we were both winners in this case.

You may find the below information interesting .

~SheopleNation states: I do, and it proves my point which is that without America, The Japanese Empire surely would have conquered Australia. That's the discussion he and I were having, and that is a fact. All other deflections amount to nothing more than pointless drivel. Which includes, all the time wasted trying to convince me of how corrupt I already know our Government is. It's like listening to music that I wrote. ~SheopleNation


___________________________________________________________________________________________

At the time there was no other countries that was allied to Australia that could assist, Britain was struggling to survive the combined military onslaughts of Germany, Japan and Italy. America's non involvement at the beginning of WW2 was due the policy they had at the time (Non-Interventionism policy that the U.S.A.) though the United States Government at the time did consider Hitler as the main threat. United States did attack a German U Boat on April 10, 1941 and also assisted with convoy boats. United States officially became involved in WW2 on December 7, 1941 when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbour, Hawaii.

Britain at the time did not have the military capability to defend both India and Australia against invasion by the Japanese Empire. With the Japan's military aggressive attack and invasion in East Asia and invasion of China's province of Manchuria in 1931, it was in preparation for war against United States and Great Britain which essentially began in 1940. Many Australian and troop

Bearing in mind that the Japanese military aggression and territorial expansion in East Asia began between 1875 and 1930. With certain if the United States had failed to defeat Japanese aggression at Midway in 1942, it is likely that Australia, Hawaii, and the chain of islands between them, would all have been absorbed into Japan's rapidly expanding Pacific Empire. 15,000 Australians were taken prisoner during the Fall of Singapore. One needs to remember that out of the 724,000 Australian solders fighting during WW2, 400,000 served outside Australia. 40,000 died, 22,000 were wounded in battle. Greater than 20,000 became prisoners of war. The total population in Australia in 1938 was 6,998,000 Certainly Japanese invasion would have been devastating to not only Australia and New Zealand but also to United States eventually.

The Japan Empire had two options, first being that they invade northern Australia and severing Australia's lifeline to the United States or secondly by severing Australia's lifeline to United states and forcing the county into surrendering. It is well known that Australian prisoners, including nurses, were subjected to harsh imprisonment, cruel punishments, and sometimes arbitrary execution.

What many need to remember is that each allied country had their important roll in supporting each other to maintain the quality of life that we now live.

If both Germany and Japan won, would our history be of mass annihilation on an unprecedented scale in the years following their victory?

Would those countries occupied be under a tyrannical and vicious regime. Japan did many atrocities during the war like the Rape of Nanking - where at least 300,000 people where massacred , the Bataan Death March the massacre of 76,000 American and Filipino.

Germany's generalized aim was to transform itself from a small continental power to a true world power - with complete control of continental Europe and probably effectively have full control of north Africa and the Near East. The economy would have been run by slave labour and when the sub-human slaves would have been destroyed, they would have to have enslaved all the weaker people of their own race. Survival of the fittest was their ideal. With that Germany may have been very unpredictable if they won.

At the end of the day hoo gives a crap . There must be beta stuff to report than this .
Is this fear mongering or what ??? Sounds more like general direction of Australia
Now everyone's talking about missile defense and junk , get over it , can't see n.korea
Raining down terra on Australia anytime soon.

I don't stand behind North Korea, but BIG DEAL. So they are going to test a missile. Has anyone stopped to think for a moment that if you make a BIG DEAL about something it does nothing more than entice the person? If the world would just say to North Korea, BIG DEAL, they would probably say to themselves this type of behavior isn't working. We are only fueling their efforts and they are getting a kick out of it. No country is going to fire off nuclear weapons, they know they wouldn't be around to tell about it or live their lavish lifestyles.

So STOP making BIG DEALS and fueling their narcissism.

Originally posted by Amdusias
I'm well aware of the fact they're buying up land. Not all of us agree with it, but atleast they are doing it within set grounds. They aren't the ones being implicated in invading nations strictly to be able to secure resources now are they? They aren't the ones using 'terrorism' as a blanket statement in order to point fingers and engage in combatives with select groups and individuals. They aren't the ones with members of their intelligence communities frankly talking of waterboarding a member of our nation, let alone assassinating them (Julian Assange). Members of your nation can denote your government and military all you want. BUT it is their actions that are having an affect across the globe. Not you...

The you should be well aware of the fact that the same international Banksters that rule us, rule you as well. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by DonaldD


I agree. You made alot of good points. It's nice to see some comonsense for a change. ~$heopleNation

Originally posted by Amdusias
reply to post by beam1

 

I never said I wanted them to have nukes. Nor is that Australia's policy. If they want to use nuclear technology however. Then we should encourage them to listen to other nations actively using it as such. Better to be able to instruct them, rather than just let them experiment? It's not like you tell someone to just go and drive a vehicle. Sure they could and learn the hard way and most likely encounter an accident OR you can atleast offer to instruct them. Atleast there are plenty of examples of how detrimental the tech can be if used and not appropriately safe guarded. Maybe if your country hadn't been so invasive in some regards and atleast took the time to ask before taking action. An by asking, I mean asking the relative nation. Not the U.N. Then your government and militaries actions may not be so frowned upon.

They dont listen... Why do you think they are in the position they are in.. If you dont appreciate what my country has done not only for your country but many others, then why dont you convince your country to part ways with us.. Its very easy to sit back and say this and that is so wrong, tell your country to lead the charge..

China can teach them but they choose not to, russia can teach them but they choose not to.. Why do you think that is?

What do you know about invasive? What you think places like afghan, iraq etc.. Dont have ppl that actually want a regime change, you think the old regime isnt going to go down with out a fight!?

You can sit behind your pc and bash my country all you want but i will put money that if another country wanted to attack us you would be a prime target and your country will come crying for help and the irony would be your country buying military goods from us, actualy they already do so tell me how your country is any different than mine when they contribute to the very thing you bash my country about...

reply to post by beam1


He's not gonna listen. It will go inside one ear, and out the other. He's too busy hating America like the rest of the planet does. Little do people like him know that we are about at the end of our rope with our own Government.

Listen to his condescending lecture about what we have done, and what we have not done. I will make my point again, his nation would be enslaved and subjugated till this very day. Unless of course Red China somehow defeated Japan in the future but then re-subjugated the foolish misled mortal's continent anyway.

Basically, nothing more than another confused, brainwashed robot. No appreciation whatsoever for the blood that we gave to save Australia from eventually being conquered. Not one single thank you have I ever heard. Then again, I have never heard it either from their pals over in Red China who would have suffered the exact same fate. Just imagine what the japanese would have done to all of China if they could have. Not hard to figure out after studying Nanking. Course, everything would have been peachy without the evil USA. LMAO!!! ~$heopleNation

reply to post by beam1
reply to post by SheopleNation

They dont listen... He's not gonna listen.

History is one big complex puzzle with lots of pieces. I find it hugely ironic, unfortunate and inevitable that this hard, strong willed character is looking in the mirror when it comes to this and other walls. But that is the way the game is sometimes.

It is good to see the international community recently meet over this and some progress is getting made towards a more secure world. After the fiascos with Iraq WMD and others it is only right that we should question this, as it has been one privilege that our shared ancestors have provided through much conflict.

Good for them. Until it gets close enough to a country to need to be shot down, or it hits a country, I don't care, and I don't want the US, or it's proxies, getting involved with any sort of preemptive strike.

Not to mention the title is a little misleading. They could launch a missile off their coast and it would be reported "N. Korea launches missile towards the U.S.".

It's not like N. Korea is going to go to war with Australia.

Guys remember the missile is non active, has no war head. It is just to test range and show off range to other Countries. I'm Australia and all this sucking up the US's butt has finally caught up with us. And for what? A majority of the US's population didn't even know we went into Iraq and Afghanistan with them. We have a small Army but we have many Highly trained Special Service men that are great at special tactical missions behind enemy lines or peace keeping by directed surgical strikes rather than the "Shock n Awe" method. The problem is the amount of difference we actually made in both wars was irrelevant and now we have many enemies and America didn't even know let alone giving them a chance to abandon us or forget in time.

Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by beam1
reply to post by SheopleNation

 

They dont listen... He's not gonna listen.

History is one big complex puzzle with lots of pieces. I find it hugely ironic, unfortunate and inevitable that this hard, strong willed character is looking in the mirror when it comes to this and other walls. But that is the way the game is sometimes.

It is good to see the international community recently meet over this and some progress is getting made towards a more secure world. After the fiascos with Iraq MD and others it is only right that we should question this, as it has been one privilege that our shared ancestors have provided through much conflict.

Questioning is one thing but to call my country a failure and constantly bash it day in day out month after month is another thing.. Especially wheh the bashing is coming from ppl in a country that support what we do to begin with.. I agree my country does qustionable things and believe me i wish they would stop getting into every damn conflict so that we can fix things in our own turf, considering many of you dont apreciate it any way...

Originally posted by Garfee

Originally posted by Qumulys
I love all the Aussie bravado, the she'll be right attitude..
I know they can't reach us...

But deep down, I got a worried sick feeling in my stomach. I'm not afraid to admit this gave me chills.

*hands in man badge

The only way they can reach us is with ships or submarines. I think they will be occupied elsewhere.

And this is the reason for America and Australia discussing the taking over the lease of the Coco islands and setting up, or redoing the airstrip (worth 220 mil ish) to run their unmanned drones from.
This little gem was on the news last night.
Our opposition stated just as quickly that they would support a heavier American numbered friendship, so either way we are getting it whether we like it or not.
Julia talked 'around' the subject, I got the distinct impression she's not excessively enthused by the idea either.

Originally posted by BungleX
Guys remember the missile is non active, has no war head. It is just to test range and show off range to other Countries. I'm Australia and all this sucking up the US's butt has finally caught up with us. And for what? A majority of the US's population didn't even know we went into Iraq and Afghanistan with them. We have a small Army but we have many Highly trained Special Service men that are great at special tactical missions behind enemy lines or peace keeping by directed surgical strikes rather than the "Shock n Awe" method. The problem is the amount of difference we actually made in both wars was irrelevant and now we have many enemies and America didn't even know let alone giving them a chance to abandon us or forget in time.

Did you stop to think that maybe your country cant perform a "shock and awe"

" now we have many enemies" so is it americas fault that australia is where it is on the map.. Everyone has enemies but i guess you prefer us as your enemy due to the strategic position your in.. We know you helped, did you know we will always have your back if attacked, did you know you country buys its military goods from us, do you know who helped you train those highly trained service men? Let me guess you think north korea didi that for you or china or russian...

reply to post by beam1


I know just how depressing this website can get with so many deep, dark and highly complex problems flashing through the headlines. I know it is not just the US to blame when Rumsfeld can lie at the UN and everyone just accepts it, France felt betrayed when the resolution was used to justify military action, but the other signatories appeared on board.

One cultural rift that is between Oz and the US is on the issue on capital punishment. I know Oz is a rare nation to have a policy where we no longer kill criminals, but there is some reflection of this policy within the population on the issues of war. I also know war has defined the political environment we have today and does play by a different set of rules. I am just looking for the day when we can be straight up about why these people must die, without that the rule of law is an economic one, not a legal one.

I have very much appreciated your discussion on this issue and it has been informative and reassuring to see recent developments with the nuclear issue internationally. As a globle, there is still much work to be done, but putting this issue to rest between NK and SK removes the cause of breakdown for previous peace negotiations. With there long conflicted history talks will be tough, but can hopefully pick up where they left off now that it appears this issue is at or nearing an end.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by daaskapital

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Garfee

 

Just stating a fact in plain language....if one has to gather what you may or maynot have inferred.....well....then they might not undrstand what you are saying. I posted it in the simplest of terms.

Australia has no ability to defend itself from any major power....thus...the deal with the U.S.

Not much else can be inferred from that other than what the words say. Split Infinity

Australia defended itself against the Japanese. What don't you understand?! Japan was a major power in WW2.

A couple of shoot out of a small recon force is NOT the same as a FULL OUT WAR with Japan. You were spared this because the U.S. won at MIDWAY. It all came down to that battle. If the U.S. Navy lost....Australia would have faced the brunt of a full out Japanese Invasion since the war was about RESOURCES. Japan did not have the Iron Deposits to continue to build their war machine...neither did it have OIL. The U.S. slapped Japan by not selling them any Amerian Minerals, Elements or Oil after they Invaded most of South East Asia.

Regardless. Australia, did defend itself against the Japanese. It was not only a recon battle as you suggest. Do you even know what you are talking about? Overall, around 17,500 Australians died fighting the Japanese, and you think all Australia done was small recon fights. get stuffed mate.

You cannot make the statement that Australia was in any real sizable battle with Japanese Troops.

Excuse me! That is extremely disrespectful to the 30,000 Australians who defended Australia by fighting the Japanese in the Kokoda Trail Campaign! Before spewing your arrogance and patriotism, at least do some research on your allies for crying out loud.

The fact that the Japanese would fight to the last Man, Woman or Child...was the direct reason for the Nuclear Bombings...remember...more Japanese died in the Fire Bombing of Tokyo than at Hiroshima....and the U.S. had to drop TWO NUCLEAR BOMBS....before Japan would surrender. The Pentagon had determined a Direct Invasion of the Japanese Mainland could cost over 1 Million U.S. Soldiers lives and 20 to possibly 40 Million Japanese Deaths.

In my opinion....and especially with the way Japan fought viciously to the last Soldier....the Nuclear Bombs being dropped SAVED MILLIONS OF LIVES! As bad as that sounds...it is VERY true.

Japan was already defeated by the time the bombs were dropped. They were going to surrender. The dropping of the bombs was used to show the world what America has, and that whole incident led to the Cold War. The Nuking of Hiroshima and Negasaki are war crimes as far as i am concerned.

Now...tell me about this huge Australian/Japanese Battle. I have no doubt the Aussie fought VALIANTLY....but please...do not think for one second that all of Australia would have fallen if the U.S. Navy had lost at MIDWAY!
Split Infinity

Do some research yourself. I gave you the Kokoda campaign stats, you can do more research. We fought just as much, if not, tougher than the American Forces, and the Japanese who were involved in the battle said so as well. In their opinion, the Americans were cowards because they hid in the bush while the Aussies charged.

reply to post by daaskapital

UNBELIEVABLE! This topic was about North Korea directing an ICMB near or at Australia. Then it morphed into an...The U.S. is BAD....we Aussies should not help them. Then it morphed into Australia Mainland war against Japanese troops of which you are posting now about a battle in PAPUA NEW GUINEA....known as the KOKODA TRACK OR TRAIL CAMPAIGN....multiple battles of which involved both Australian and U.S. Forces.

These battles were NEVER on Australian Mainland Soil...and I nor anyone else has disparaged the Bravery of Australian Troops of which a combined force of primarily Australian and U.S. Troops numbering 30,000 fought against a Japanese Force numbering 13,500.

Total of 625 Australian and U.S. Soldiers died and a total of 6500 Japanese Soldiers died.

By standards of U.S. Battle Casualties in even some of the smallest island operations in the Pacific...these numbers are miniscule...although that does not take away the bravery and Honor of Australian Forces.

AGAIN...this was about events that occured or will occur on Australias Mainland...not events that happened or will happen in or on or over Australias Mainland.

Please keep this discussion to that vein of debate. As far as your statements of the two Atomic Bomb drops...the Japanese were give EVERY oppertunity to surrender...and U.S Navy and Marine experiences with false surrenders by Japanese Naval and Military units that once within range...turned into Japanese attacks or Suicide Runs...the U.S. decision to drop the Nukes was the correct call. Split Infinity