Karzai Wants Americans Tried for Quran Incident; Will Obama Defend Troops?

reply to post by signal2noise


The death toll just from this incident is up to 12, which includes the 2 US soldiers...

After rereading the article it states that Afghan soldiers on the base came across it, at which point they tried to save the books. Their in conflicting info on that - Afghans who recovered the books stated that some were indeed burned, while the US said they were charred but not burned.

What im getting from that is just the outside of the books were damaged and nothing inside.

It would be the Afghans, in my opinion, that decided to just put the information out there. Since the Afghan soldier shot and killed the 2 us troops, apparently at the behest of the Taliban, who is making calls for people to kill US personnel.

Another blatant defiling of their own religion..... and yet nothing coming from any Muslim groups.

reply to post by xuenchen


I doubt that since they deal with the detainees on a daily basis, and know which material is which. US troops also get instructions on the customs and the language.

I think this was simply, as you stated, cleaning out the library area that was being abused by the detainees.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by xuenchen

 

To be honest I cant really see it being a western nation. If we assumed it is then we must also assume that the western country behind it would send their people in as we pull ours out. No matter how close of ties Russia / China / US etc has to Afghanistan, in the end the Afghan people want the foreigners out.

I think they would be ok with Arab countries taking the place of the west until they can really get the country going.

I agree.

It has to be somebody closer to the area.

Real Close.

China does already have some contracts in Afghanistan I believe.

And they do share a small border area in the East.

And remember all those un-mined mineral deposits.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by xuenchen

 

Israel?

It may be a stretch though?

It did not take long for that avenue to open up !!


In then end it is always the Mossad or the CIA that perpetrated the deed


More likely than not the Qurans that were burnt got mixed in with other papers and were brought to the garbage pit for burning unknown to the soldiers assigned to the task.


A simple question for all you Muslim apologists , What should be done to these Muslim prisoners that desiccated the Quran for their purpose of planning whatever they were planning ?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by xuenchen

 

I doubt that since they deal with the detainees on a daily basis, and know which material is which. US troops also get instructions on the customs and the language.

I think this was simply, as you stated, cleaning out the library area that was being abused by the detainees.

You are right.

Personnel get pretty good training.

reply to post by xuenchen



Hm. I see some grand mental gymnastics and wheels grinding to make this into a conspiracy.

We've been trying to get that place calmed down for a decade, and yet we would deliberately do something to re-stir the hornet's nest?

It was a faux-paux, indeed. They have to know how those folks are about their holy book. But to intentionally get them all in a killing mood? (It doesn't take much) I don't think so. It was unfortunate that they found out. Perhaps that is the conspiracy. How did they find out? Who told them? lol.

As far as not knowing what was in the books....you think we are in other countries with no one there to speak, read, and interpret the language? Hardly.

Two more possibilities.

1) The U.S. has been mentioning some "talks" with the Taliban.
Hmmm .. lots of jealous and nervous groups stand to lose something.

AND..

2) Don't discount the drug cartels.
Afghanistan is the world leader in opium production and the mafias are the world leaders in smuggling the crap.

Just think about the golden opportunities if the militarys and governments get marginalized.

reply to post by xuenchen


Xuenchen, I've read many of your posts, and I admire your intelligence and think you are "smart as a whip".

But you're just fishing now......climbing a tree when you could stay on the ground as they say.

reply to post by xuenchen


Personally speaking I find the "talks" between the US and the Taliban as nothing more than a gimmick. The Taliban knows they cannot face the US on the battlefield and expect to win. They know they can continue the guerrilla warfare, and the US will still counter it.

The only (and imo quickest) way to resolve the mess is for the groups in Afghanistan to feign peace to get NATO out, so they can go back to retaking the country and pick up where they left off in 2001.

The same argument was used by the groups in Iraq.. Let the west do their thing while the other groups gear up / stock up and plan for after the withdraw.

As far as China goes... I could honestly see that as a possibility. Chinese companies have been selected by the Afghan government for resources / some infrastructure projects. China also has territorial interests on the border region, and actually (I did not know this) have a contested part of Kashmir. China has also begun construction on a oil pipeline from their western provinces down through southeast asia.

Some of the countries the pipeline is suppose to go through have backed off because of their population not being happy with it.

Why invest the time and capital there when you could just knock on Afghanistan's door? Its close to the Middle East, it would run through 2-3 countries they are close to (Afghanistan / Pakistan / Iran) and they are able to wield considerably more influence in the Afghanistan / Pakistan / Iran area than south east asia, where China has managed to piss off just about every country with territorial / resources claims.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Excellent points

We are getting warmer.

Who cares who it offends? NOT A CRIME TO BURN A CRAPPY BOOK!

But then again, you know what they say - first you burn the book and then you burn the man!

Best thing one could do with a Quran is burn it IMO...

So people are offended by this... so what? Since when has being offended, given those who are offended rights to demand those who did the offending be placed on trial?

Burn the Quran... burn them all!!!

Originally posted by theBigToe
Who cares who it offends? NOT A CRIME TO BURN A CRAPPY BOOK!

But then again, you know what they say - first you burn the book and then you burn the man!

I guess it is over there !!

that's why they want a trial

Originally posted by xuenchen

Originally posted by theBigToe
Who cares who it offends? NOT A CRIME TO BURN A CRAPPY BOOK!

But then again, you know what they say - first you burn the book and then you burn the man!

I guess it is over there !!

that's why they want a trial

And a trial theyll probably get since we like to bend over so much to appease Islam.

you know ive seen a few of these threads about the quran burning and you know something its a book get over it

people seem more pissed about the quran being destoryed then 2 people loosing there lives over a book, this is disgusting

the quran preaching violence, islam preaches violence, why don't they apologize for the countless they have killed over there religion or imprisoned or tortured, all the oppression that tney have committed in the name of religion, its 2012 people wake up there are worse things to be worrying about then a book

we could be in another war soon, gas prices rise, the economy of the world all that and people are worried about a book, you wonder why this is all going to s***

who gives a crap it is a book it is not the word of god. it is a vook that is inscibed by men/ the only books i jknow that can really be claimed as word of god was the 2 stone tablets the orginal ten commandments were on. if the were passing messages back and forth thru a koran then then study the messages and get rid of book . in thast regard i dont care if it a holy bible a koran or a torah . the people who should be tred for this supposed crime is the detainees who defaced it in first place by writing in it.

Originally posted by jibeho
Two US soldiers killed in retaliation for this and Obama can only think to apologize to the Host nation that killed them. Hmmm.

Any apologies for bible burning and flag burning by Muslims? Any apologies from Muslims for persecuting Christians? NO and NO. Our mea culpa president has no clue.

Karzai can sit on it. Time to bump up Obama's timeline for a full troop pullout in Afghanistan. I know it will disrupt his other plans but this is ridiculous. !@#$ em'

I think it's more important to get hold of whoever killed the two soldiers!

To clarify things a little. We have US citizens of mid eastern and Afghan descent who serve as interpreters for sensitive situations. These are US born employees of the military. That is how we know what was written in the book and other religious material.

With that being said the problem as I see it was not that the materials were burnt, but where they were burnt. They should have been destroyed in a secure place with no "outside eyes" around. Problem solved.It didn't happen that way, they were put in the trash and burned in the massive burn pit in Bagram. Who works this pit? Afghan civilians, most who make $650 or more a month. Afghan millionaires.

Trail, not hardly. We should not have a public trial for those Soldiers. Bring them home for thier own safety, all involved. 99% of the time we treat that book with more respect than most of th population there. I can't count the times I have seen it laying on the floor of a vehicle or in some other place as if it doesn't matter.

We can discuss a trial when the Afghan government prosecutes the individuals who wrote in it to start with. That is worse than burning it. When that book is beyond repair the mullahs destroy it. How you might ask? They have three options. Wrap it in cloth and bury it where no one will ever walk over it, Wrap it in cloth with a weight and sink it in flowing water or my favorite, BURN it.

The theories of some other outside force trying to start more problems doesn't hold in this situation. I am not saying outside forces aren't involved in this little war. I know from first hand experience Two neighboring countries are involved, you can decide which two.

I say Karzai can have his Americans to try in Afghani Courts for the burning of the Qurans.......RIGHT AFTER....they hand over each and every rioter who directly participated or indrectly supported the violence which led to the deaths of Americans and others.

He's pissed over a burned book. I see dead human bodies in the street and inside our base perimeter. I believe Karzai is focusing on a little speck of crap while I'm standing back to look at the whole toilet full. Flush the commode before crying about the specs.

reply to post by xuenchen

Thanks to Barack Obama’s failure to lead

I had to laugh here. Of course, when some Qurans end up getting burned in the heart of Afghanistan by anonymous soldiers, its Obama's fault.

Why was he not there to jump in the pit after them screaming NOOOOOOO!?

I mean, if those Qurans had been burned, and Obama was any sort of "leader", theres no way that riots and extremist sentiments would have erupted in the region......... right?

I mean, come on, we all know muslims dont care that much about trivial things like burning their holy book... or letting people see your skin.... or drawing a funny little cartoon Muhammad.... or little things like that.

They totally play it cool like 99.99999% of the time.