Unemployed lady seeks legal advice over human rights issue.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by mandroids
But this job pays nothing. she was already doing something [volunteer] that would enhance her CV more so than working in a pound/dollar store. I believe it was a museum. I hope she wins.

Me too.
I don't see the point in moving her from one unpaid job (the she enjoys) into another unpaid job that she doesn't want to do.
Yes we all have to do crap jobs and we all have to take jobs we don't like, but generally we'd get paid a fair wage for those jobs or get paid for the hours we work.

If she's unemployed but doing voluntary work, I can't see the logic in taking her from one and putting her in another, unless there is a chance of a job at poundland?

Hmmm

I read about this before and I know there are groups fighting this slave labour that is being introduced where you'll work essentially a full week but just get your unemployment benefit.
I think that it's an awful and totally unfair idea.

Instead of throwing money around and wasting money on crap (like trains), why don't the government invest in jobs? Why don't they stop reducing public sector jobs and use the money to keep them in work?
Why don't they pay for the unemployed people to be trained or go to colleges and Uni?

I dunno man...

Post of the thread.

reply to post by mandroids


I'm sorry but this issue is nothing to do with human rights. I realise under some definitions this the arguement but in reality the basic human rights are the only essential ones - things like a right to water and a right to food and shelter.

Choosing where you work whilst getting free money from the state is about as far as you can get from a basic human right.

This is an area i know well (sadly) as it is something i used to teach. Aside from that and far more importantly, rights are nothing without responsibility.

Where is her responsibility to society? That is right, it is in not expecting society to support her now she is no longer in full time education.

Comparing this to a human rights issue is a gross insult to those all over the world that are suffering from genuine rights issues.

reply to post by mandroids


The whole idea of this scheme is that if you don't find work, they'll find you paid or unpaid work. If they can find you work, why the hell can't you find work?

There's plenty of jobs out there, put a radius around you. I travel 4 hours a day to get to Uni, 2 hours there, 2 back. There's absolutely no excuse whatsoever for being on Job Seekers benefits for more than 3 months (which is, when I believe they start finding work for you).

Even with a degree if you find you're over qualified for jobs, don't mention you have a degree, it's not lying unless they ask.

Why not use the whole volunteering to an advantage and volunteer to work in the industry of the degree to try and leapfrog into that industry? Sounds like a no-brainer.

stuff her
put her on a shelf

its not cool to have jobs anymore or careers
you gotta be the change if you want the change
vote ron burgundy!

I think some people are missing the VOLUNTEERING at a PAID position thing.

Look if the position is paid, then why is the government paying her to do it instead of poundland? Its like me having working for xyz company and the govt makes you come "volunteer" for me for ohhh lets say a cashier. I don't have to pay any benefits, workers comp, unemployment insurance..oh and that's right, i do not have to pay your OR your taxes!!

Also If you took the time to read that last sentence you will notice the term "unemployment insurance".....do you get mad at others living off of your input into social security? Its about the same thing (and yes there are people that get ss without ever working a day in their life).

edit: I just hope she gets a job and the person(s) who made this issue get reprimanded and held accountable

Yeah i'm gonna have to post again, sorry for not reading the link properly. Being forced to do unpaid work at poundland when she is already doing unpaid work closer to her field is wrong. However if i was her i'd be applying for all the naff jobs like in poundland just to see myself through and keep the unpaid job at the museum for experience

It appears that empathy for your fellow man is in miniscule supply on this site. Let’s hope the government never forces you to do something against your will or that would make you feel unhappy…

Shame on 95% of you.

...Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist…

reply to post by scoobdude


The government are paying aren't they? Will they not be paying JSA (Job Seekers Allowance) Are they not paying benefits? When you are on benefits, you are essentially paid by them. You do what your boss says or you don't get paid.

The whole point of JSA is you are actively seeking a job. Yes your friend may be genuinely trying to find a job, but hundreds of thousands aren't, and this is the harsh reality of getting these no good bums off benefits and in to work.

reply to post by mandroids


It has nothing to do with empathy. It has everything to do with her taking responsibility for her own life and not expecting the state to look after her.

Aside from anything else, is she not supposed to intelligent? I say supposed to be because i am questioning it now. Every day we are all assailed with economic gloom the world over but instead of seeing this and accepting the current reality she chooses to make an issue of it.

And by the way, yes, whilst society is paying her wages then society should have the ability to decide what she does for it - she has been a year unemployed now so her responsibility is overdue.

reply to post by mandroids


To be fair you're OP was not at all clear and in that article it's easy to miss the sentence where they say the job never materialized.

Originally posted by boaby_phet
complete and utter tripe, sorry! ... just because someone has went to uni does not mean they should be above the system if the do not have a job.

fact is, people that have never had a job , no matter what letters they have after their name will find it very hard, esspecialy today to find a job!...

If this person was as intelligent as you say, instead of arguing againt it, she would see that A. it gets her work experience and B. it gives her more money than JSA!

I don't think that's the point.... It's not about her being above the system or too good to work in poundland.
She already volunteers and gets her JSA. by her 'working' at poundland, she still ONLY gets her JSA.... it is NOT a paid job... it's unpaid, voluntary work.

Yes she gets her JSA but she does not get a wage and does not get anything other than JSA.


The whole thing makes no sense.

Miss Reilly’s solicitor, Jim Duffy, said the practice contravenes article 4 (2) of the Human Rights Act, which states: ‘No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.’

This is silly considering she's getting unemployment benefits.

So I pay her, I pay my council tax, my mortgage/rent, my prescriptions. Whereas she receives money from me, probably pays none or little rent, concessions on council tax, free prescriptions and god knows what else.

She has waited over a year for the 'right job' to come along, think thats long enough honestly.

PAY YOUR WAY, because I'm sick of my taxes and National Insurance going up just to pay you.

Originally posted by Domo1

Miss Reilly’s solicitor, Jim Duffy, said the practice contravenes article 4 (2) of the Human Rights Act, which states: ‘No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.’

This is silly considering she's getting unemployment benefits.

Yes but she's already volunteering?
Why move her at all?

Also she gets Job Seekers Allowance, a benefit an individual receives while actively seeking work to help with travel costs, job searching costs and living costs.
Nowhere does it state in that Job Seekers Agreement that if asked, you will do unpaid work for retail companies and still only get your JSA.

Maybe they do have a new contract, I have no idea.... but the benefit she receives, AFAIK, does not state she has to work full time hours and get just her JSA.

reply to post by Domo1


She's not being forced that's the point. She can choose not to.... and lose her benefits.

Like with a paid job, I could choose not to go to work.... and not get paid.

I could however, choose to go and do the unpaid work, be really peeved off about it and decide that I feel like a worthless drain on society and do something about it, like find a paid job, wherever it may be a shop, cleaning, pub, bar... there's plenty out there.

If jobs are hard to find for this friend, why not set ATS a challenge of finding this friend a job, I bet we could find one and have your friend in an interview within 48 hours.

Originally posted by scottlpool2003
reply to post by scoobdude

 

The government are paying aren't they? Will they not be paying JSA (Job Seekers Allowance) Are they not paying benefits? When you are on benefits, you are essentially paid by them. You do what your boss says or you don't get paid.

The whole point of JSA is you are actively seeking a job. Yes your friend may be genuinely trying to find a job, but hundreds of thousands aren't, and this is the harsh reality of getting these no good bums off benefits and in to work.

I think you missed my point.
1) already volunteering
2) forced to volunteer elsewhere for a PROFIT company
3) Profit company get free forced labor (aka "a slave")
4) Profit company now also gets tax break etc.

Now on to your 2nd point
1) who is to say she is not looking for a job?
2) If you boss tells you to pull your pants down and....well you get the point... its a civil rights violation (aka "a crime")

reply to post by blupblup


All I'm saying is that calling it a human rights violation (equating the situation to slavery) is preposterous and an insult to people who actually suffer. I do agree that it was a stupid move and unfair though.

Originally posted by blupblup

Originally posted by Domo1

Miss Reilly’s solicitor, Jim Duffy, said the practice contravenes article 4 (2) of the Human Rights Act, which states: ‘No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour.’

This is silly considering she's getting unemployment benefits.

Yes but she's already volunteering?
Why move her at all?

Also she gets Job Seekers Allowance, a benefit an individual receives while actively seeking work to help with travel costs, job searching costs and living costs.
Nowhere does it state in that Job Seekers Agreement that if asked, you will do unpaid work for retail companies and still only get your JSA.

Maybe they do have a new contract, I have no idea.... but the benefit she receives, AFAIK, does not state she has to work full time hours and get just her JSA.

Full time hours for two weeks only!!!!! She is now also using tax payers money to try and avoid just two weeks work. How long will it be before the penny drops that after so long out of work, perhaps no one in her field actually wants her. TBH if she goes to court for something that IMO is trivial (ie just two weeks of getting out of bed early) then I'm not surprised employers don't want her.

reply to post by blupblup


Look,if she was just signing on or hadn't been claiming JSA for long, then fair enough - this would be very unjust and wouldn't really make much sense.

However, after a YEAR of "searching" she still hasn't found a job, despite volunteering in her field. As such, if the government decide they want her to do different work experience then what is the problem? Her payment is her JSA.

reply to post by scottlpool2003


I think perhaps you misunderstood my point.