Police in Riot Gear at Manchester United V Manchester City Derby

reply to post by KnobOfCheese
[

. Surely there is potential for unrest at all Football games. Therefore riot gear should be worn at every match around the country? Eventually riot gear becomes more accepted by the general public as an everday form of police dress

Its a slippery slope

reply to post by dragonsrreal


I agree , but most fans are actually nice people and theres rarely any trouble at games , just isolated incidents here and there , and there is always thousands of police at every EPL match , its mainly the Man U fans that cause the most trouble now , in my opinion , every team should be held responsible for its fans , if the fans start trouble , the team gets fined and a point deduction. It would stop hooligans for good.

reply to post by KnobOfCheese


That is utter bollocks.

Yes, there is intense rivalry between both sets of supporters and there is definate potential for trouble but Man Utd fans have not done what you said they have.
There is relatively little trouble inside grounds nowadays thanks to police presence and tactics.
What trouble that does happen tends to happen away from the grounds and is relatively minor compared to 'back in the day'.

reply to post by dragonsrreal


I see, California should have a few of them out and around.

reply to post by Freeborn


So the "red army" didnt smash shops , rob tills , rob mcdonalds and threaten employees in the stadiums last season ? theyre the worst in the league , glory supporters and nothing more, in all honesty i`d love to see City take the title and Man U fall down the table over the next few seasons , lets face it , Manchester isnt that United if theyve got 2 teams and keep scrapping with eachother.

reply to post by KnobOfCheese



Lets drop the football rethoric

All clubs over the years have been guilty of having violent fans. So can we please leave it as that

What would be a much more stimulating debate would be about the increasing of the UK police state. This to me is just another example of that.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
1. The PTB are increasingly inching their way forward in dealing with the civil unrest we're going to be seeing. We've had riots, they've started the discussion about militarizing the Police across the country and considering the use of live ammo.

They're not "considering" it in the slightest, it was just touted as an option in very specific cases where life is put at risk when a report into the riots was completed. All Police forces and the Government quickly rounded on this and shot down the notion that people could be shot for rioting.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
There are a few groups in the UK (mostly the EDL/BNP Neo Nazi's) who plan and organize riots at these games.

When was the last riot at an English football game exactly? You speak as if it is a common thing.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
3. England has an impressive record of football violence. It's all very well crying about how it's unfair to label, but some stereotypes are true.

A record that ended in the 1990's, some 20 years ago. It's like saying Germans have a penchant for gassing Jews, just because they used to back in the past. What was once true shouldn't always be true. English football has worked exceedingly hard to stamp this nonsense out and, by and large, they have succeeded. Is it not right then that we're recognised for that? Like I said, other nations have far worse violence and yet no-one stereotypes them.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
In the UK, there are a hell of a lot of drunk, violent, racist thugs who enjoy football not for the sport but for the violence associated with it.

And if they are caught doing this during a game or even near one they will find themselves being banned for life and facing charges, hence why hardly anyone gets done for it anymore.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
Yes there are plenty of people who wouldn't hurt a fly who go to matches, but that doesn't seem to make any difference to the fact that a lot of matches get violent every year.

Alot of matches get violent? Do point out which, as I must have missed this. Even Millwall fans are well behaved these days.............

reply to post by KnobOfCheese


Of course there have been isolated incidents, but nothing on the scale of yesteryear or to which you tried to imply.
Everyone knows the days of large scale confrontations are long gone.
Too many banning orders.
Too much jail.
And too bloody old.
The wannabe's of today are a poor imitation of yesterdays mobs.

Regardless of one's opinion of them, Manchester United command a large following - the largest in the country, as such they will attract more 'hooligans'.

Yes, there is potential for trouble.
Yes, the police need to maintain a high profile....they know what they are doing and English police are masters of containment etc of football crowds.

reply to post by dragonsrreal


Nah , i wouldnt worry too much about football matches , we were the worst in the world in the 80s for hooligans and thugs , the police were in serious numbers and they havnt rounded us up into camps yet , what i`m worrying about is the new laws introduced ..... riot police are now allowed to use live rounds in England , if we march in certain parts of London we can be fined and arrested just for being on the street , and theyre even trying to get the British Army to march our streets . lol . i`m not concerned about the security at football matches at all.

reply to post by stumason


Stun although I dont go to watch football and to be honest couldnt be less interested in watching 22 overpaid oversexed cretins kick a ball about. I do think that you are right about the way football violence has died down over the years and im sure statistics will prove that.

If this is the case why is there a need to have all officers, not just a select few but all officers in riot gear at the game

To me this is a sad day for sport in general and raises larger social issues about modern policing methods

Originally posted by KnobOfCheese
So the "red army" didnt smash shops , rob tills , rob mcdonalds and threaten employees in the stadiums last season ? theyre the worst in the league , glory supporters and nothing more, in all honesty i`d love to see City take the title and Man U fall down the table over the next few seasons , lets face it , Manchester isnt that United if theyve got 2 teams and keep scrapping with eachother.

Kindly provide some sort of evidence as I am pretty sure this would have been on the news at some point, but I never saw it.

As for the option of a "UK Police State", please, don't start. The UK is not a Police State and won;t ever be, barring some sort of massive revolution. For a true Police State, look at East Germany, or North Korea then come back and complain about the Police wearing helmets to protect themselves. Any notion of a Police State in the UK is rediculous and not based on any kind of fact.

Yeah must admit apart from a couple of things, footie is a safe fun pastime to watch. Loads of kids goto the games with their dads and at least we get to see woman jumping up and down at matches now
As for the riot gear if a copper was blinded at a game maybe it is health and safety making them wear the stuff.
Like posters have said in this thread, the FA have made it hard to be a footie hooligan, heck if you are caught smoking in the loo they throw you out and threaten you with taking your season ticket away.
Hope it passes off peacefully and we all have a good time
COME ON CITY!!

reply to post by KnobOfCheese

and theyre even trying to get the British Army to march our streets

Where, when and how are they doing this?

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by KnobOfCheese

 

Yes, the police need to maintain a high profile....they know what they are doing and English police are masters of containment etc of football crowds.

edit on 4/1/12 by Freeborn because: (no reason given)

So why the sudden need for riot gear. If it results in less trouble at the match when can we expect to see it every saturday up and down the country

reply to post by stumason


They`re well known for it , they even done it to poor Barnsley in a carling cup tie.

www.sportsnet.ca...

Originally posted by KnobOfCheese
They`re well known for it , they even done it to poor Barnsley in a carling cup tie.

www.sportsnet.ca...

Ooh, 8 people arrested.. 4 United and 4 Barnsley fans. I;d hardly call that endemic of Man Utd fans at all, really seeing as that particular game was attended by over 4,000 of them. The article also mentions a couple of Barnsley fans being nicked at the train station too for jumping on the tracks in front of a train...

You painted a picture of anarchy caused by rampaging hordes of United fans. The reality is a few (litterally..) got a pissed and caused a ruckus.

Hardly symptomatic of football (and the FA came down on them quite hard for it anyway) and pretty much just summing up what happens when you have thousands of people in a small area and throw in a bit of booze.

More people were arrested at Ascot Ladies Day than the game your linking too, does that mean Horse Racing has a hooligan problem?

reply to post by dragonsrreal


Manchester derbies are always passionate affairs.
Manchester City are currently top of the league, Manchester United are second.
The match result could go a long way towards deciding where the title goes.
Tension will be high.

It's not further evidence of any alleged infringement of human rights or civil liberties but merely an extention of long established policing methods used to minimise the opportunity of confrontation between opposing sets of football fans.

reply to post by KnobOfCheese


Get real, you can see worse incidents in nearly every English town and city on nearly every Friday and Saturday night.

Now come on, what was this about the Army on the street?

reply to post by KnobOfCheese


Realy realy realy could not give a flying F about whos fans have done what to who

Lets just call them club x and club y. Then consider the implications of the precedent being set here. We are talking about all officers on duty at a UK sporting event in full riot gear and I truly do believe this is just a continuing shift in the way that the population of the UK are being policed.

I am not anti police but this to me is another indication about how the current government think we should be controlled

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by dragonsrreal

 

Manchester derbies are always passionate affairs.
Manchester City are currently top of the league, Manchester United are second.
The match result could go a long way towards deciding where the title goes.
Tension will be high.

It's not further evidence of any alleged infringement of human rights or civil liberties but merely an extention of long established policing methods used to minimise the opportunity of confrontation between opposing sets of football fans.

Is this extension of the policing methods required though? The pure presence of officers in riot gear will change the whole feeling of the match. As previously stated by others on here hooliganism has been well controlled by the police in the UK in recent years.

so I ask the question again why is there a need for riot gear now. It could be on health and safety grounds but lets take the scenario that an officer gets injured during another game at the weekend. Will he or she then have the right to take his or her employing service to court over not preventing injuries because they were not issued full riot gear. Do we then extend that to officers on general patrol on health and safety grounds?