Jesus is NOT a copy from Pagan religions! Those are lies! Do research and do not believe!

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by LunaKat

 

After a while, some people hijacked the teachings to place women in a lower position. He even venerated Mary who anointed His feet, and this Mary was a prostitute. This is not Mary Magdalene the Catholics claim, that was an unfounded rumor.

He wanted Mary to be honored, but this Mary is the sister of Lazarus.

13Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Luke 7

35But wisdom is justified of all her children. 36And one of the Pharisees desired him that he would eat with him. And he went into the Pharisee's house, and sat down to meat. 37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment, 38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. 39Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

John 11

1Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2(It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick. 4When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. 5Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.

This was not Mary Magdalene, but this Mary was the sister of Lazarus and Jesus loved all three of them. She was termed a sinner, but to what sin she committed is not mentioned, and when the Pharisees made an issue of it, Jesus defended her. Whatever she felt to do for Him was appreciated by Him and He stated that wherever the Gospel is preached, there should be a memorial to her.

I went to Catholic school with the nuns and the priests. The only Mary we were taught to honor was the one called the Blessed Mother which was Jesus' Mother. .

The only instance of venerating another Mary that I know of associated with the Catholic church is Guadalupe of Mexico, Patroness of the Americas. That is because She actually came back (the deities that come back have been women btw. If there are Divine male Gods they never come back), and appeared in Mexico to Juan Diego. Its a beautiful story and the roots of which probably go back to the Goddess (there is some debate about it because she wanted her church built where once stood a temple to the Goddess Tonantzin or She may have been connected to Quetzalcoatl.) Guadalupe is much loved in Mexico and rightly so.

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by LunaKat

 

And why He is not for the Jews only
John 11

48If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation. 49And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not. 51And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; 52And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Caiaphus was the high priest but knew enough of the Bible to recognize that Jesus should die, not only for Israel but people everywhere. And it says children of God, not just sons. In fact the Bible also says that God would pour out of His spirit on all flesh and the sons and daughters would prophecy.

But Jesus kept saying he was there for the Jews. Others it seemed kept pushing him to make that a wider invitation and I do think Jesus accepted it gradually. The myth undergoes a change with that.

Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by LunaKat

 

I'm gonna have to split your post up. I'm not real good with the quoting function on here and commenting inbetween. So this first. So you automatically linked these two verses to what Jesus was saying to her? Wow.. I wouldn't. Even after seeing them I don't link them to that. Its one thing to note a process that animals may or may not do (don't recall our dachshund ever doing that) and to call a human being such a vile thing. He didn't call the men that did he?

No, actually He called them Satan and the Devil and said their father was the Devil. He called Peter, one of his best disciple friends, Satan.

I think also what is going on is the Pauline traditions versus the Peter traditions. Paul, in some ways, seems to be anti-women, but Peter is not. Paul also says for women and men to not dress alike, and women should not cut their hair.

If I believe that God will pour out His spirit on me and I will prophecy (because the Bible says I can), then there cannot be a silence and Paul is also the one that said there is neither male nor female.

There is actually no command in the law for women to be silent, otherwise Miriam was a big sinner for dancing and singing after they crossed the Red Sea. I come from a church in which women are encouraged to speak, but not to be unruly about it. I think when Paul says that, he was referring to the law of Corinth, and not the law of God because in Greece, women were second-class citizens.

In Classical Greece, young girls usually grew up in the care of a nurse (25.78.26) and spent most of their time in the gynaikon, the women's quarters of the house located on an upper floor. The gynaikon was where mothers nursed their children and engaged in spinning thread and weaving (31.11.10). In addition to childbearing, the weaving of fabric and managing the household were the principal responsibilities of a Greek woman. Young women, however, had some mobility in antiquity. For example, retrieving water from the local fountain house was considered not only a woman's task, but it also offered a woman the opportunity to socialize with other women outside of the house. It was also the responsibility of women to visit the tombs of family members. Typically, they brought offerings and tied sashes around the grave stelai, a custom that is well attested on a number of white-ground Greek lekythoi. Women could attend public speeches and visit certain sanctuaries, such as those of Artemis at Brauron and the Sanctuary of the Nymph at the foot of the Akropolis. However, during any occasion outside of the house, a young woman was expected to be inconspicuous and to be covered around the head to obscure most of her face and neck.

Everything Paul teaches was geared toward the Gentiles, and he spent a lot of time dealing with those people who were Greek. It seems Paul was doing a little pandering to the Greek population, because many times those Greeks were trying to kill him. When he says "in the law" it was not the law of Moses, but the law of the land of Corinth.

There is a vast difference in how women were treated in Israel compared to Greece and Rome. Paul does not say anything against any other woman who preached, just this one city.

reply to post by LunaKat


WarminIndy don't you find it strange that there are only a handful of times Jesus had really anything to do with women? The OT set rules down largely against women. Jesus had the chance to erase all that and didn't. He kept quiet on it. We got this great big Bible book of how many pages? I don't keep one in the house anymore but its pretty hefty book. Jesus wasn't real concerned with what was happening with women. Thats just the truth. Its a mans religion. For all those pages and pages and pages you would think there would be something else. You would think that Jesus would have straightened out a lot of stuff from the OT concerning women but he didn't. We got one instance we just spoke of where he called a woman a dog. I don't come to the same conclusions you do about why he did that. I'm sorry I just don't. I read it for what it is. And its not very good.

Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by WarminIndy
reply to post by LunaKat

 

I went to Catholic school with the nuns and the priests. The only Mary we were taught to honor was the one called the Blessed Mother which was Jesus' Mother. .

The only instance of venerating another Mary that I know of associated with the Catholic church is Guadalupe of Mexico, Patroness of the Americas. That is because She actually came back (the deities that come back have been women btw. If there are Divine male Gods they never come back), and appeared in Mexico to Juan Diego. Its a beautiful story and the roots of which probably go back to the Goddess (there is some debate about it because she wanted her church built where once stood a temple to the Goddess Tonantzin or She may have been connected to Quetzalcoatl.) Guadalupe is much loved in Mexico and rightly so.

edit on 16-12-2011 by LunaKat because: (no reason given)

I keep forgetting you were Catholic at one time and since I keep using the KJV, the references probably don't make sense.

The name Mary seems to be a named held within one particular tribe because there are quite a few of them, and the same goes for Simon. I have heard of Our Lady of Guadalupe, but the one I just can't wrap my head around was Medjigora. The county where I grew up in Ohio, there is a large billboard to the Lady of Medjigora and it says that her time has come now. I am not sure what that means and I have researched it.

Originally posted by LunaKat
reply to post by LunaKat

 

WarminIndy don't you find it strange that there are only a handful of times Jesus had really anything to do with women? The OT set rules down largely against women. Jesus had the chance to erase all that and didn't. He kept quiet on it. We got this great big Bible book of how many pages? I don't keep one in the house anymore but its pretty hefty book. Jesus wasn't real concerned with what was happening with women. Thats just the truth. Its a mans religion. For all those pages and pages and pages you would think there would be something else. You would think that Jesus would have straightened out a lot of stuff from the OT concerning women but he didn't. We got one instance we just spoke of where he called a woman a dog. I don't come to the same conclusions you do about why he did that. I'm sorry I just don't. I read it for what it is. And its not very good.

I am cool with that, at least you are honest in what you say and don't try to attack me like Colbe has done both of us. As far as Jesus and women go, I think that if he did spend more time with women, then people would have called him a womanizer. After David and Solomon, there needed to be a little less of that going on...

There is an excuse for everything...this is what is so dang frustrating trying to sort it out. If someone says heres the words from the Bible..they will be told, sorry wrong edition/version. There are way too many versions of the Bible. And way too many denominations each contradicting the other. Even Christians cannot agree with other Christians. I've seen even in this thread when one Christian says another Christian doesn't have it right cause they aren't in the right church. I want to throw my hands up and coooooooooooooooooooooome on already...this isn't worth it. If I mention what Jesus said or didn't say, I'm told to read aaaaaaaall these other people and writers. No. It derails the message. It gets farther and farther from the words.

The Bible is a mess. The denominations fight. If I throw 7 Christians that don't know each other in a room together and pose any question about the Bible, I guarantee you with 30 minutes they'll be at each others throats. I leave to them to sort it out.

This is where we got to agree to disagree. And in all honesty my head hurts. I need to get away from this because I find it immensely frustrating.

Reading the comments this afternoon, this is why Jesus established one authority. He's God He would know. Personal opinion and no knowledge of the faith, look what you get.

Jesus is both God and man, He can't be "rude."

Start reading Catholic writings, the lives of the saints, the Catechism, a Catholic
Bible, I recommend the translation of the first Bible, the Vulgate, it's called
the Douay-Rheims Bible. www.drbo.org....

The Remnant is Roman Catholic. The evil one and the anti-Christ could care
less about heretical sects and non-Christians. Don't remain prejudiced against
the Church. Jesus has revealed much more than the Protestant "I am coming
soon."

Read the messages from Heaven. There are some Protestant prophetic at this site too.

http:www.catholicbinder.com/

Search a particular subject of faith with Catholic Apologetics typed in first.

Well,i work on the subject on Extra Terrestrials at minneapolis science facility. During our research we have used many of the best historians around the world. What you are doing here is arguing facts,and mixing information.Do some more research if you want the big picture.

reply to post by Grimpachi

On a different note I am curious about the healing that you and Autowrench have been talking about. It is something that I would like to talk to him about in a form that's not so public.

Check your U2s, Grimpachi, I hear you wish to talk to me. My ears are always open to honest questions, friend. I don't mind talking in a public forum either, as long as it doesn't get too personal, or delve into classified things. Ask away!

reply to post by colbe

Fact...everything you know of Christ came from the Catholic Church.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist, stating something as fact, with not thing one to back it up. How could you possibly know what WarminIndy has read or studied? Did you follow her all during her formative years? Look over her shoulder when she was reading a book? How can you say something is a fact when plainly you do not know?

reply to post by colbe


ignore this entry.

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by Zeer0
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

All you have to do is read the book then look at the world for what it really is. What is said to be true in the Bible has been disproven by Logic and Science.

Examples ? Should be easy enough.

Dave Norris

anyways, if god does exist as they say then he knows everything that will ever happen, yet he sent his son to die, which (apparantly) started christianity which in turn caused a sh*t load of wars and killed a sh*t load of people. he continuasly lets bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people, but its ok because he has a plan........ in conclusion, if god exists hes a sadisctic b******d who i wouldnt worship even if my eternal soul depended on it.

The ultimate in narcisissim ( Even if God does exist ? He isn't good enough for me.) You poor lost people.

edit on 14-12-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

as you can probably tell, i dont beleive in god, what im asking (to the people that do) is why worship something that by your own descriptions is vengefull and sadistic? fear maybe? if fear is the reason to worship 'God' then can 'God' really be described as good?

as you can probably tell, i dont beleive in god, what im asking (to the people that do) is why worship something that by your own descriptions is vengefull and sadistic? fear maybe? if fear is the reason to worship 'God' then can 'God' really be described as good?

reply to post by DaveNorris


Well I like that a lot better Dave. Never let it be said that I won't stand up for what I believe. Because you have one thing so absolutely right. I absolutely fear God more than sharks, black widows and Joan Rivers and even death. Some say fear is the same thing as respect. Homey don't play. Why do you think there is a fear factor in the firsst place ? When the deer catches the scent of a man it's the fear that saves the deer. Employing what it knows to save it self. The deer runs.

What is so hard to understand ? God is what he is, like it or not and your ideas of disdain are over matched by one simple act.

I open my eyes every morning of my life.
And I know he only meant for me to have a more abundant life than this glimpse, of what was really meant to be. And by the way, as only a man, I would tremble and shatter in the presence of God. But as a man with Christ in his heart, I am again a child and he is my Heavenly Father.

Fear as anyone knows, can be a good thing. I choose to save myself Dave, so I run.



Randyvious

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by colbe

 

Fact...everything you know of Christ came from the Catholic Church.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist, stating something as fact, with not thing one to back it up. How could you possibly know what WarminIndy has read or studied? Did you follow her all during her formative years? Look over her shoulder when she was reading a book? How can you say something is a fact when plainly you do not know?

Thank you Autowrench. And thank you for recognizing me as a woman, a lot of people assume I am a man...

The thing is about me is that I am all about witness, I would never tell you I believe something just because someone else said to do so. My brother, the practicing Wiccan, came by yesterday and we had a conversation about this thread just to get ideas from him. We talk about many things, usually philosophical, and even though we might not agree on religion, we never argue about it. He asks me questions and I answer them as best as I can but he can tell you I have never once told him he has to follow my religion.

He is fundamentally by nature a very good guy and we get along well, even in our discussions about religion. To explain some things about us though, I have Multiple Sclerosis and have to use a wheelchair. He lives in a building that has stairs so I had to move to an apartment for handicapped people. He goes to buy my groceries for me and yesterday he bought me a microwave. He has only done this in the past 6 months, even though I have had MS for a very long time. I helped him when he was going to college and he graduated Summa Cum Laude with a Business degree and he works for the state of Indiana. He was a practicing Wiccan while he was in college, so his way of worship is nothing new for me. He knows though, that if he were sick that I would help him in the same way.

We have both studied philosophy, yet I went toward Christian theology and he went toward Wiccan philosophy. We still manage to have coherent discussions and at the end of the day, we say good-bye until he comes over again to visit. He is coming today to watch football, and even though I am not a sports fan, I watch it with him because it is good for our relationship.

I have studied theology and philosophy for many years, I also studied history and decided the best way to use my talent was to take everything I learned and go to film school, and that is what I did. I write screenplays and am currently working on several. I have also written several published articles about film.

The best thing about my life is this, I have a working relationship with my brother based on mutual respect, and that to me is wonderful. I manage to look past his worldview and accept him as him.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by colbe

 

Fact...everything you know of Christ came from the Catholic Church.

Spoken like a true fundamentalist, stating something as fact, with not thing one to back it up. How could you possibly know what WarminIndy has read or studied? Did you follow her all during her formative years? Look over her shoulder when she was reading a book? How can you say something is a fact when plainly you do not know?

..."when she was reading a book"....autorwrench, there are millions of books.

The "Truth" isn't in every book. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life."
It is historical, backed up by 2000 years of witness and the miraculous to confirm. Jesus established "a Church" not churches or a fairly new excuse "a body of believers" as some profess because they reject the Church. The "Church", the RCC has given every Christian the means to know of Christ.

I would know nothing of Christ and neither would you without the RCC. One, Holy
and Apostolic Church. Jesus' teachings, given the Apostles were passed down from them to believers today.

The Remnant is Roman Catholic. God in His love and mercy is going to show
the entire world this Truth soon, each person personally. It will be everyone's choice after experiencing the Great Warning to accept His Church and very important, to accept the Real Presence.

Trust Jesus, if you can come to believe in His presence in the Holy Eucharist,
all your misgivings, questions about the faith will fall away.

reply to post by colbe


You speak as if the lips that speak the word are as holy as the word itself. There are various things wrong with the Holy ROMAN Catholic Church, and we can start with the name.

"The Holy..." let us begin with this prefix in its full title. What utter rot. A church is not Holy, nor is a place, nor is a land. The Lord my God on High in heaven may be Holy, but no member of mankind living today, nor any bricks and mortar erected by him, nor any organisation in whole or in part that consists of either, can be considered Holy. Jesus was. The church, wether Catholic or otherwise, is not

Ok, so next we come to "The Holy Roman..." There is nothing in antiquity, more godless, heathen, and awful than the Roman empire. The horrific behavior of vast swathes of the population of that corrupt and awful political and military structure, serve to completely invalidate any claim to Holiness that can be applied to any organisation founded in the place, or by its residents. They practicaly invented the sickening behavior which we see in Priests the world over these days, in that thrice accursed nation during countless orgies and unsavoury encounters, so the Roman part is of no use to the Catholic church either.

Next up "Catholic". Most people are not aware of this, but all the word means is "throughout the whole" or you could use "universally". So all that word in its name achieves, is similar to the effect of the dog with the biggest gonads, waving them in the face of any possible alternative."We are the whole church, no one is truely of the church unless they are part of this one" is the idea behind it... "we have all the chips on the table, what you gonna do?". The placement of this word in the full title of the Church you refer to, is no more than shirt stuffing, and otherwise is as meaningless as supercalafrigilisticexpialidocious. Or at least it would be, if it were not part of the war on freedom that the organisation has always fought.

Now, you cannot say alot about the word church... but on the other hand, there is much to say. The Catholic Church has an obsession with rich materials, with gratuitous use of gold, velvet, and expensive wood carving, marble and sickening levels of gaudiness which any person, who has ever read the word of Jesus, would find appalling to behold, were they not at the mercy of indoctrination so thorough as to have been part of such a blatantly corrupt organisation as the Roman Catholic Church. Again, just because the book they read is good, does not mean that the organisation they have built around it is worth a single damned thing, except possibly torching.

And lets not forget , that they messed about with the context and content of the Good book, to encompass a panopoly or pantheon of Saintly figures,this effort designed to make a change to Christianity more comfortable for those who previously worshiped the planets as Gods. Yes, they paganised my faith for me, a millenia and some change before I got to embrace my God. Have you any idea how angry that makes me? Have you any idea how angry that must make GOD?

Roman doctrine would have you believe, that thier every action and deed and political utterance, is as holy as the good book, that you should revere priests, that you should love the pope, if indeed you love God.

The fact that they raped the good book by scattering lies amongst its truths, and destroyed the peaceful word of God for millions by its reputation throughout the world, by using the Holy Bibles word as an excuse for murdering hundreds and hundreds of thousands of women accused of witchcraft, and making illegal the practice of any faith alien to the Bible, and murdering those who were found to do that as well, make a nonsense of any claim to Holiness they ever made!

Despite the probably error strewn assertion that Catholicism spread the word of God everywhere it currently resides ( there were actually non Catholic preachers abroad as far as the West of Europe when the RCC first came to being, but we will glaze over that for times sake) , the fact that alongside that, the Church went about as far as it could to embugger the name of Jesus at every turn by its barbarity and sickness, means that we should all be mindful that however holy an organisation may wish us to think it is, there are a few ground rules to safe belief in God.


Jesus is not a cloned Pagan monster, although the Roman Catholic Church did thier best to make him thus. It is however, thier fault that he can be seen as such. I would dearly hope thier is retribution being enacted upon those who allowed that to happen because it has inserted a worry that need not have come between the Lord my God and his people on Earth.

reply to post by colbe


But Colbe, you didn't ask me if I did not believe in transubstantiation, you merely assumed I did not. And attacking Autowrench is not going to convince him. You should know "blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God".

The holy Eucharist means nothing to God without an actual heart of repentance and fruits meet for repentance, even evil men give and take the Eucharist under the assumption that it is all that is necessary and required. I dare to ask, who is giving these people the idea that they are complete and perfect? I will tell you, wicked priests who do not take a stand against wickedness. Why do mafia members who just killed people, stole money and sold drugs take the Eucharist? Because they do not have the understanding that the Eucharist is meant to be more than just free reign to proclaim a religion then not live it. I do not think that for one moment, Jesus stands back and says "well, they're living a life full of wickedness and sin, but because they took the Eucharist, I will overlook it".

If that is what you think happens, you are sadly mistaken. Autowrench has declared an unbelief in our God, we need to stand back and understand that we did exactly what we were supposed to do (witness), and if he still does not accept it, then we walk away. Simple as that.

Autowrench, I believe, in the beginning of his journey had many questions and Christians did not answer, so without answer, he chose to walk another way. I don't care myself whether or not you agree with me, I know who Jesus is and what Jesus does for me. Jesus is not found only within a piece of bread or cup of wine, He is alive and well within the hearts of those who believe, receive, and accept Him because His words were, I will abide in you and you in me.

reply to post by TrueBrit


You pretty much tell it how it is but let's not forget how they have destroyed anything that would go against their idea of what God is. How many books and texts how many scrolls and pieces of history have been locked away or completely destroyed because they fear the truth might get out. Not to mention their sanctioned murders across the world. How many people have burned at the stake or have been tortured to death from accusations of being a witch.

In recent history how many could have been saved had Pope oppose Hitler instead of turning a blind eye. He was a coward.

How anyone can follow that they nowadays with just what has recently come out. How many children have been molested? And how many coverups have there been? The church gives sanctuary to these pedophiles. The Pope they have recently appointed is a Nazi! How can anyone follow this church? If Jesus was alive he would burn it to the ground. I am not even religious but they seem to be anything but men of God. Their priests can't sleep with women so they molest little boys then cover it up. Somebody please explain to me what is good about this organization. It seems to me that it has caused nothing but death pain and destruction all in the name of God. This church is kept mankind from furthering his knowledge, when it was suggested that the earth was round or when astronomers said we weren't at the center of the universe they were threatened with death.

That's get to the strait out lies the Catholic Church have provided. Hell was created by the Catholic Church and when people lost fear of that they create purgatory. They come up with the idea of menorah candles so they can make more money. It is all about control, money, and fear. The whole thing is sick, twisted, and destructive.

I understand why the worst of the worst in human kind like this religion. It is because they can commit the most heinous of crimes than go through a little ritual may be absolved of their sins. This compartment of the religion makes it okay to be a horrible person. The argument that religion is what keeps society together is completely false. This religion does the very opposite. How could anyone even try to defend this church. It is anything but holy.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Thank you, WarminIndy, I am sorry to hear of your affliction, and wish you well. We all choose our own path, and it matters not which path one takes, for all lead to the center. The only real things I have against the established Christianity is the lies they tell people. The lies about the Afterlife, and lies about Yesuah being God, the lies about doing this or that or burning in Hell. I also do not care for how Christianity treats women, and I don't like how their book talks about women. I don't like that they are always trying to tell me that three men created all of humanity, and that Divinity is decidedly an all male club, no women allowed. I also tend to think that the OT God was not a God at all, but was an ET, and a cruel, jealous one at that.