Calling Out Jewish and Christians- Please Answer ONE Question

I was raised Catholic, and I do still believe in God.

To answer your question neither are right!! I am not sure Jesus ever walked the Earth, or that he was the son of God.

I think all religions have something wrong with what they believe, that's why I don't talk to my kids about God, or Jesus or religion really.

I think there is a God out there and he made all of us, I just don't think he is who "they" tell us he is.

reply to post by WhoDat09


See I believe jesus was a real person because even the jews acknowledged him. The jews just thought he was just another prophet( which I think) but there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for a virgin to have a baby for one, and for two, its impossible for a man to die and come back to life. Oh and die again and threaten to come back when TSHTF. Sounds to me like the earliest form of governmental terroism.

Originally posted by Raivan31
reply to post by AllUrChips

 

Simple answer my friend.

Jews are the chosen ones, therefore if you are not a jew you are not a chosen one.
pre-Christians did not like this idea so they found a way to trump simply being born a jew by being part of the son of god club because they have no other way to get to heaven otherwise.

Seems a bit unfair that being born into a non jewish race would condemn you to eternity in hell from your first breath doesn't it.

Being born into a non-Jewish race does not condemn you to eternity in Hell. When Jesus came to Earth and the Jewish people denied Him, the promise was then offered to everyone. God gave the Jewish people every chance to accept their Savior. It was known for thousands of years that all the sacrifices that were offered were to remind them of the coming Messiah.

When the Jewish people denied Jesus Christ, God needed a fair reason to then offer the promise to anyone and everyone who believed in and loved the Son of God.

Galatians 3:26-29(KJV)
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Acts 13:45-46
King James Version (KJV)
45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

reply to post by WhoDat09


And you call yourself a Catholic? Heck, Im NOT Catholic but if I were, and stated what you just did, well, that would just make me NON CHRISTIAN by definition because you do not believe in "Christ"

reply to post by jeramie


So who is Yeshua?
second line.

Originally posted by jeramie

Originally posted by Raivan31
reply to post by AllUrChips

 

Simple answer my friend.

Jews are the chosen ones, therefore if you are not a jew you are not a chosen one.
pre-Christians did not like this idea so they found a way to trump simply being born a jew by being part of the son of god club because they have no other way to get to heaven otherwise.

Seems a bit unfair that being born into a non jewish race would condemn you to eternity in hell from your first breath doesn't it.

Being born into a non-Jewish race does not condemn you to eternity in Hell. When Jesus came to Earth and the Jewish people denied Him, the promise was then offered to everyone. God gave the Jewish people every chance to accept their Savior. It was known for thousands of years that all the sacrifices that were offered were to remind them of the coming Messiah.

When the Jewish people denied Jesus Christ, God needed a fair reason to then offer the promise to anyone and everyone who believed in and loved the Son of God.

Galatians 3:26-29(KJV)
26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Acts 13:45-46
King James Version (KJV)
45But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Doesn't really matter who formed the "jesus and pals club" my statements are still accurate.
So the jews got bent out of shape at the concept of non-jews having a ticket to heaven, interesting bit of background story but it only reinforces what i said.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's etc... They're all wrong!

Anyone with half a brain knows that the universe rides on the back of a giant celestial squid called Trevor.

IRM

this will be my new signature...

reply to post by AllUrChips


Look it up in the book they all follow. For me, it's proven in the old testament that Jesus is right.

If nothing else, look at whose more successful. Which religion produced better fruits. The religion that doesn't even have a safe homeland anymore, or the religion that has no home, but instead makes your home its home and travels far and wide. I suppose look at Muslims too, a religion that makes your home like the one it was made in.

Must of asked a very uneducated pastor if you stumped him with it.

Originally posted by eightonefive

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindu's etc... They're all wrong!

Anyone with half a brain knows that the universe rides on the back of a giant celestial squid called Trevor.

IRM

this will be my new signature...

Ahhh you beat me to it! I'm putting it in there anyway, hope you don't mind, i almost passed out i was laughing that hard.

reply to post by AllUrChips


12/1/2011 The Misinterpretation Garbled by Tongue A Poem

The Universal Mind appeared before Mankind

Three Dreaming Men were there.

upon their backs they carried packs so heavy and so rare.

Within them times of all mankind , of stories bold and drear

and gifts of gold and gems untold

and healing herbs so fair.

Twas how it was one lonely night

beneath the stars so clear, and there before the firelight

their fears became sincere.

The wind picked up the threats of old

and cast them in their ears,

the stars flew by so suddenly

forgetting all their years.

The earth before and once below was now

at eyesight to behold!

Grip as they glanced at one another,

their hair and beards were growing old.

Yet then the scent of sanctity

a silent calm henseforth unknown,

a smoky mist from side to side

moves above the ground.

Behold the light , so silent white

the moment rapidly like dawn.

The three men stand alone together

their mouths frozen in open yawn.



Fast yet how the ages pass

and still they cannot agree.

Of what they lived that horrid night

in mankinds history.

Until this day they argue, fight, dissent, and dissagree,

upon the names of coveted Gods and names across the seas.

Even the old wise men tried to capture what is limitless and free.

and so their interpretation, will never, ever be

The truth of what they felt and saw that night, for them, or you, or me.








Original and Unpublished, by Wildmanimal Best to You and ATS

This is not a question that can be easily answered without a bit of historical understanding and without knowledge of the Sciptures. I will give you my honest answer, but know that it will probably seem confusing and sound much like a politician, unless you read Scripture.

God chose the Jews to be His people, knowing full well most of them would reject His Son. After Jesus was crucified, over 500 Jews witnessed Him alive afterwards - resurrected - and over the course of 40 days, witnessed Him appearing and disappearing and reappearing (He died on Passover and ascended on Pentecost) in Jerusalem. On Pentecost, the Disciples saw Him ascend to Heaven. They stayed in a room to wait for something (they weren't exactly sure) because Jesus instructed them to wait for what He was sending... 10 days later, the Holy Spirit was upon them and empowered them to share the salvation message. "The Church" (Chrisitanity) essentially started at the point that several thousand Jews accepted Jesus as their Saviour. The Disciples focused on conversion of the Jews first... it wasn't until much later that the Disciples went to other regions to preach to the gentiles (non-Jew).

John 15 addresses a couple of important areas. One, is of the vine... that you must abide in Him (Jesus), and He in you to be saved. As a gentile, I am grafted into the vine because Jesus abides in me and I in Him. Two, is that God chooses us, not the other way around... mind boggling as it is, He already knew who will choose His Son.

Israel (God's chosen people) has always been and continues to be God's timepiece. Ultimately, in Revelation, when all hell breaks loose on earth, many Jews will realize that the prophecy in the Bible was fulfilled, they will be saved and begin preaching the Gospel until He comes again.

Jews place their hope in "The Law" and gentiles place their hope in Jesus. I don't know about you, but I don't know one single person, nevermind myself, that could EVER perfectly follow the law in action AND thought. If we had to follow some rituals and live a perfect life, no one would "pass". God knows that and loves each and every one of us, so that is why He paid the way. One time, one way, good for all who believe... Jesus.

It sounds like you've had some nasty experiences with "Christians". I did too, raised in a hypocritical family, listened to hell fire and brimstone rantings, faced with guilt and judgement all the time... no wonder so many people run from Christianity! But, after years of looking into everything else, I wound up back in a Christian church AND, this time, the pastor and his fellowship were grounded, authentic, loving, knowing that the ONLY one with the right to judge is God.

We are all human... it isn't IF we fail, it is WHEN we will fail. If only more Christians read the part about taking the plank out of their own eye before telling another about the little stick in theirs... and the part about blessing those who curse you... and loving your neighbor (everyone). For me, it really helped that my church goes through the Bible, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse and takes to heart that we don't earn our way to heaven... it is by grace - God's unmerited favor.

reply to post by WhoDat09


A great film to watch (or book to read) is The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. It helped dispel any of my doubts.

Here's the bottom line on your quesiton:

Your asking for a absolute where a variable is missing. There is no absolute answer to "who is right", because the outcome hasn't occurred yet.

That's why you get the reactions you do - that and no one likes to have something they care about be poked with obvious confrontational questions - confrontational questioning on any subject is always uncomfortable. There are opinions, each having their valid reasons for feeling the way they do.

Consider this: The answer could be both are right... God has a special relationship with the Jews, that was in part guided by law. Christians believe Christ ended those laws. If Jews believe and live by those laws, yet don't believe Christ is the Messiah, when judged were they not still living under the law as His chosen?... Christians rely on Old Testament prophesy to identify Christ, and believe fully in the same God as the head - if Christ was only a prophet, when judged, aren't Christians still believing, edifying and having faith in the same one and only Father (all qualifying Old Testament factors for non-Jews unjudged by Jewish law). It may not necessarily be "right or wrong" for Christians / Jews, they may be judged differently. Both sides could turn out "right".

For now, there is no current known correct answer, so the question can't be answered definitively (the way your asking). What your actually asking for is a debate based on strong opinions.

It gets a whole lot deeper than that, and is incredibly interesting. So to gain a valid opinion, do some valid research - but in the end, it's a question only time will answer.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
So I have a question for you christians or people of any religion(just figured mostly christians on here) that I even stumped a pastor with. Its not that hard of a question either. WHO is right? Which of your religions are right? The christians say that you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to go to heaven. Jesus is the SON of GOD according to christianity. Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet. NOW, Im no expert, but if the jews are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "holy land", then who is right? Are the jews not going to heaven because they do not believe that jesus was the son and died for their sins? Are the christians wrong, and Yeshua(translated to joshua) is the son? And those are just the two main religions, thats doesnt even include muslims and allah! So that is my question, WHO IS RIGHT? Jews or christians.

edit on 30-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

It's taken me a while to get to this thread, so plenty of people have posted before me...

Here's my take on the issue. It's not so much about who is right as it is about who has the complete picture. Scripture presents to us a Christ who performs in two very specific roles: the suffering servant (e.g. Isaiah 53) and the Ruling King (e.g. Isaiah 60). Much of the reason (though by no means all) that Christ was rejected by the Jews was because they failed to recognise how the one man could perform both functions. For the Christian, this is reconciled in the First and Second Comings of Christ. For the Jew, this remains an issue, and has caused many Jews to feel that they have missed the Messiah entirely.

The situation we have now in the world is one where the Christian Church, and the Jews are mutually exclusive. I don't mean that there can be no salvation for any Jew (singular), because that isn't the case; but Romans makes clear that the Jews have been rejected in part, so that the gentiles might see the grace of God. This is the period we are in now. Yet, the Bible speaks of a time when God will restore the Jews (Zecharaiah 12). They "will look on the One they have pierced, and mourn as one mourns for an only child".

What we need to understand, most importantly, is this.
Being a Jew doesn't make you saved. Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you saved. Only Christ can do that. Christ's blood was the one true pure sacrifice that God demanded; a covering foreshadowed in Eden (God killed an animal to make skins for Adam and Eve; that blood covered their nakedness), in Noah (salvation through One Way, a single door, at God's provision), at Abraham ("look, my son... God has provided a ram"), and on, and on, and on, all throughout Scripture.

So what the Jews saw in part, the gentles now see more fully... but soon, very soon, we will all see fully, and face to face, and the gentile church and the Jewish people will all openly and fully acknowledge Jesus Christ as Messiah.

I hope that answers your question.

...and if that doesn't, perhaps this will. The Jewish people are God's chosen nation, now and forever... but they, like all on this earth, must seek salvation on God's terms. This was the problem with Cain's offering in Genesis; Abel offered a sacrifice in keeping with what God demanded; Abel did not. Likewise now, salvation comes through Christ alone. For 2000 years, the vast majority of Jews have rejected Christ, and thus have rejected God's only provision for salvation. They will not be saved. Those who have accepted Christ, and trusted in Christ alone, for salvation, will be... whether Jew or Gentile.

OP

Many Jews would point out that Jesus did not fulfill the prophecies for a Messiah, as they read their own prophecies. Most notably, Jesus did not liberate the Jewish people. There's nothing in the Jewish scriptures about Messiahship on the installment plan, "Oh, I'm coming back soon to finish the job." It is unhelpful that "soon" was originally supposed to be during the lifetime of Jesus' contemporaries, and currently stands at almost 2,000 years.

Conversely, there is nothing in Jewish prophecies that the Messiah would be God himself. There is also a general scepticism about the Christian practice of reading prophecy into portions of the Bible that have different intent, e.g. the Psalms or Daniel. Even within prophetic books, Christians match incidents in Jesus' life after the fact with predictions whose authors were discussing other things entirely.

"Who's right?" Who knows? All you can really expect to have answered is whether the Jewish beliefs are well-founded, carefully examined and consistent with other things they believe. The answer is yes. Of course, Christians believe the same about their own beliefs.

Although, as you continue the discussion through the thread, I believe it emerges that you underestimate the diversity among Christians in what they believe. For example,

And pastor, correct me if im wrong, but does your religion happen tp claim that NO ONE will be saved unless they believe that jesus died for their sins and they accept him into their hearts? Im pretty sure it does.

Well, here are two prominent Protestant pastors who don't say that,

www.youtube.com...

Protestants are a minority among Christians (about 30%). They place much more emphasis on personal belief than other Chrsitians do, and yet even among Protestants, you can easily find leaders like these who have a broadly admissive idea about "God's mercy."

And don't even get some people started about Rob Bell (searchable). But it is only some people. There are more than a billion Christians worldwide. It is unrealisitic to assume that there would be uniformity among them in religious opinion, and unrealistic to assume that the most extreme views on any subject among any billion people wouldn't be very extreme indeed.

I think you were wise to set the Muslim take on Jesus to one side. They agree with Christians that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, agree with the Jews that he wasn't God, and stake out their own position that Jesus wasn't crucified at all, much less for anybody's sins. So, at least for the question which you ask, Muslims just ring the changes on what is already in contention.

Also, Islam makes for short conversations. There is one and only one reason why Muslims believe these things: they believe that Mohammed heard them from Gabriel or during other incidents of inspiration. If you do not share their core belief, then there's really very little else to say about their other beliefs, and little else to discuss with them profitably.
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Originally posted by AllUrChips
So I have a question for you christians or people of any religion(just figured mostly christians on here) that I even stumped a pastor with. Its not that hard of a question either. WHO is right? Which of your religions are right? The christians say that you must accept jesus christ as your lord and savior to go to heaven. Jesus is the SON of GOD according to christianity. Now, Jews dont believe that jesus was the son of god. Rather just a prophet. NOW, Im no expert, but if the jews are the "chosen" ones, and they actually LIVE in the "holy land", then who is right? Are the jews not going to heaven because they do not believe that jesus was the son and died for their sins? Are the christians wrong, and Yeshua(translated to joshua) is the son? And those are just the two main religions, thats doesnt even include muslims and allah! So that is my question, WHO IS RIGHT? Jews or christians.

edit on 30-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

God is infinity. This is a concept that is hard to grasp. He is all that can be or will be or could be. The Cosmos was a creation of God's image in light. This is Time, Space, Energy and Matter.

Genesis 1:1
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

The Son of God is the first begotten from God. The Cosmos was the first creation of God. The Son is the expression of God in the form of visible light, in all forms of life and expressions of light. Light is both a particle and a wave. The wave carries light to form. Life is the expression of particle and wave with consciousness. The Son of God (Cosmos / First Begotten of God) came to us as the Living Word. A Word is a wave. Light is both particle and wave.

1 Colossians 1:
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

To answer your question, God is infinity at rest. He is Eternal. We are part of the Son, infinity in motion. The Son is Immortal and cycles endlessly. We are a projection of the Son in light. We are all shades of light. No one shade of light will express as one color. Just like no one race of humanity can express in one color. God separated the light from the darkness. The rainbow is a sign of his promise to mankind. We are many, but God is one. We are one, and a projection of the Trinity.

Father (Prima Materia / Light / Infinity / Eternal)

Son (Word from John 1 / Wave / Logos / Physical Law)

Holy Spirit (Consciousness)

God is one person. He expresses into creation from the three above in the form of an image of light, both particle and wave. We are one person, an expression in image of God's only begotten Son, who expressed Himself into our image to save mankind. The Son is the image of the Cosmos and is also one with God. Man is the express image of the Son and one with God through the Son. We are the many shades of the Cosmos.

Wow what an insanely difficult question...for a child who hasnt attended Sunday school.
Go read the bible, its all about answering that one single question. From genesis to Revelation.
The whole bible is about Jews turning their back on God and then turning their back on Jesus, then killing him.
If a minister couldnt answer that question he is a dummy.
For you to ask that question indicates you have no idea at all what Christianity is.

The Jews have constantly rejected God, from Moses and the golden calf to Jesus at Calvary.
The whole OT is about Jews rejecting God and Gods faithfulness to them

double post OOOpps

Congratulations, your question dragged me back in here.

Simply put:

Depending on which Jew you're asking, they are looking, or have found their Messiah. And that is the whole crux of the matter.

As a Christian, I believe the Messiah has already come. Some Jews agree with me, some don't.

There's plenty of material in the Old Testament that was either directly known to be about the coming Messiah, or would oddly prove to be about the Messiah, when looked back upon, in context, but I'm only going to deal with one right now:

Nebuchadnezzar's Dream

The King called all of his seers (soothsayers, whatever) together to interpret a dream for him. To make matters worse, he didn't tell them what the dream was. They had to pull it out of his mind from scratch, then interpret it. Or as the king put it:

"8b I know for certain that you are bargaining for time, inasmuch as you have seen that the command from me is firm, 9 that if you do not make the dream known to me, there is only one decree for you. For you have agreed together to speak lying and corrupt words before me until the situation is changed; therefore tell me the dream, that I may know that you can declare to me its interpretation.

Really, this is how I'd prefer to do it if it was all about who has the authority to interpret the future through a prophetic dream--especially when so many dreams are not about prophecy. And the conjurers replied:

"10b There is not a man on earth who could declare the matter for the king, inasmuch as no great king or ruler has ever asked anything like this of any magician, conjurer or Chaldean. 11 "Moreover, the thing which the king demands is difficult, and there is no one else who could declare it to the king except gods, whose dwelling place is not with mortal flesh."

So, they're serious about this type of dream's authority coming from something higher than humanity, if it all has to be told to the King, without any further input from him.

So in a fit of anger, the King orders the wise men there, and everywhere in the kingdom, to be killed. This includes Daniel, a Hebrew taken into captivity, raised to be a ruler and wise man in the King's kingdom. So Daniel goes and talks privately to the king's head bodyguard, to ask why his head was on the chopping block--who tells him the what's going on. Daniel goes in to talk to the King for a stay of execution, long enough to go pray about it with other Hebrews that the impossible can happen. Then David dreams the King's dream, and it's interpretation.

At this point, most people who cannot or will not believe in any faith, their B.S. meter's going off. So be it--and hold on.

27-30 is David's posturing, verbally, to make sure that the King understands that Daniel is not doing this by his own authority, but by God's. Previously established that it would take higher authority than a human's to give the King what he wanted, so it's not just humility and giving glory to God, as He is due, but a confirming of the authority required to do the job asked of him.

So, the dream:

31 "You, O king, were looking and behold, there was a single great statue; that statue, which was large and of extraordinary splendour, was standing in front of you, and its appearance was awesome. 32 "The head of that statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 "You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. 35 "Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were crushed all at the same time and became like chaff from the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away so that not a trace of them was found. But the stone that struck the statue became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

36-45 is the interpretation. I'll make it brief: The statue is the 4 kingdoms that takes Israel into captivity, form that point on. The first was Nebuchadnezzar's (the Gold Head), Known as the Babylonian Empire. The second (chest and arms of silver) was the Medo-Persia Empire (Babylon II, with King Xerxes from 300, and the book of Esther), the 3rd (belly and thighs of bronze) was Greece (under Alexander the Great and both book of Maccabees were about, and is where Hanukkah comes from), and the 4th (both the Iron legs and Iron+clay feet) is the Roman Empire.

During the reign of the Roman Empire, a big stone not cut with human hands comes in and crushes the Iron and clay feet (which is a reference to a weakening kingdom, that is split in 2). Now, nothing is said about who or what the big stone is, or who and what the clay would represent--because it wasn't pertinent.

Continued:

EVERYONE is right.

i think "christians" are dumb.

if God is omnipresent (everywhere at once)...how can Jesus be the only way? how can there only be one route to everywhere? that does not compute.

jesus was just like buddha. he was a teacher who was sharing the peace and wisdom that he had found. he was probably more of a witch than "savior" "born unto a virgin". i think the bible is 80% garbage and the other 20% you have to weed through.

Jesus was no more the "son of God" than you or i brother...and in fact...that is kinda what He taught (but not in the bible, of course)...