What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
the more u think about it, the more it doesnt make sense, why would God punish us for eternity, how could he live with himself knowing that some people will always suffer, i dont understand how christians and muslims can accept this doctrine, this just scares the hell out of people and makes them do whatever their religion tells them, at the end of the day people who r religious are like that because they ant to get into heaven n avoid hell, most importantly avoid hell, hell is also emphasized more by priests and imams, a guy once asked a muslim scholar, what do you have to say to the atheist? the scholar replied, think about he consequence of not believing in God, thats like another way of saying that you should be a muslim because you do not want to burn in hell forever! for the people who r religious i just got one quote for ya, i dont remember who said it but it goes something like this, even if gods didnt exist it would be necessary to invent them...think about that for a second, even if God and hell didnt exist, somebody would still have come up with the concept..

You seem to be well versed in what religions tell people to do. Why don't you tell me what my religion tells me to do and see if I have done it. I will bet you don't even know the truth about religions and you are just going on what people have told you about religion.

So if you can, tell me what my religion has told me to do, and let's see if I have done it. BTW, here is my religion...I am a Trinitarian Pentecostal, definitely leaning toward the Arminianism side. I follow the basic teachings of the Church of God, Cleveland Assembly and have attended the Foursquare Gospel church of which I have been a member.

Let me know what my religion tells me to do, and if I have neglected to do the things you believe my religion has told me to do, then I will know where I have to fix things with myself.

why do i have to tell u what ur religions tells u, ur religion does not go all the way back to jesus, if theres any true christian religion it would be catholicism because they gave us the bible and they have a lineage all the way back to jesus, u can make the bible say whatever you want so how do u know u version of the bible is the correct one, ur following a book written by men, even if the bible was originally from God, it was heavily influenced by men, so u cant say u have the true religion, so it doesnt matter what ur religion tells u 2 do, its all from men so its bs pretty much, id rather be a catholic than what u r

Hell is not a place if punishment because you sinned. Hell is a state of being separated from God by choice.

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

why do i have to tell u what ur religions tells u, ur religion does not go all the way back to jesus, if theres any true christian religion it would be catholicism because they gave us the bible and they have a lineage all the way back to jesus, u can make the bible say whatever you want so how do u know u version of the bible is the correct one, ur following a book written by men, even if the bible was originally from God, it was heavily influenced by men, so u cant say u have the true religion, so it doesnt matter what ur religion tells u 2 do, its all from men so its bs pretty much, id rather be a catholic than what u r

You said that religions tell us...you introduced it so I was asking, what does my religion teach me? And no, Pentecostalism has always been an experience that goes across all denominations...what you are thinking is just an organization that borrowed the name. So you don't know about my religion right there.

But your assumption is that religion just tells the members what to do and they do it, so I was wondering what particular things about my religion do you know? This was not a discussion about the history of the Bible, but religion. What are you assuming about what my religion tells me to do? That was your original statement.

I want to know from you, what do you believe my religion tells me to do?

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

why do i have to tell u what ur religions tells u, ur religion does not go all the way back to jesus, if theres any true christian religion it would be catholicism because they gave us the bible and they have a lineage all the way back to jesus, u can make the bible say whatever you want so how do u know u version of the bible is the correct one, ur following a book written by men, even if the bible was originally from God, it was heavily influenced by men, so u cant say u have the true religion, so it doesnt matter what ur religion tells u 2 do, its all from men so its bs pretty much, id rather be a catholic than what u r

You said that religions tell us...you introduced it so I was asking, what does my religion teach me? And no, Pentecostalism has always been an experience that goes across all denominations...what you are thinking is just an organization that borrowed the name. So you don't know about my religion right there.

But your assumption is that religion just tells the members what to do and they do it, so I was wondering what particular things about my religion do you know? This was not a discussion about the history of the Bible, but religion. What are you assuming about what my religion tells me to do? That was your original statement.

I want to know from you, what do you believe my religion tells me to do?

edit on 11/29/2011 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)

allright u win, enlightened me if u will, what DOES ur religion tell u 2 do

Here is a question for all hell-believers to ponder:

The Holy Bible states that death and hell are at some future time thrown into the lake of fire. Tell me, if death and hell are no more, how sinners can still suffer in hell for eternity?





Heaven, yes!

Hell, no!

Separation from God is misery. Only hell, separated from God, is miserable. God made hell for the fallen angels but men who disobey will join them.

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0

allright u win, enlightened me if u will, what DOES ur religion tell u 2 do

edit on 29-11-2011 by 0thetrooth0 because: (no reason given)

this just scares the hell out of people and makes them do whatever their religion tells them,

This is what you said. If you say the teachings make us do whatever our religion tells us, how do you know what we will do if you don't know what we are told.

You brought into the discussion Christians and Muslims. Are you saying that we all do what our religion tells us as though the religion itself is capable of that, or do we do what people tell us to do? There are many times people will lead others astray through false teachings, that much is true. But ultimately a person has to have accountability for following or believing in the core tenets and doctrines of their faith. Without questioning those tenets or doctrines, people act against the very religion they claim to hold faith in.

It is not the religion that hold power, it is the interpretation of the teachings. People say Hitler was a Christian, but those who are Christian by faith never agree that Hitler was Christian because there was nothing in his interpretation that was Christian. Hitler was an occultist and incorporated Teutonic paganism into his worship, that is against Christian teaching.

There is an old idiom "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Dietrich Bonhoefer was a Lutheran minister who died at the hands of the Nazis because he opposed the regime. Yet, Dietrich Bonhoefer was a Christian. His interpretation was so different than that of Adolph Hitler. Corrie Ten Boom was a 10 year-old Christian girl who's family hid Jews in their home until the Nazis found out and took her family to a concentration camp. She lived through it and wrote a book when she was older called "The Hiding Place". Nora Lam became a Christian during the Communist revolution in China, she was sentenced to the work camps and was sentenced to death before a firing squad, for being Christian. Without striking back or enacting revenge, her life was spared and she finally escaped to Hong Kong (it belonged to England at the time) and eventually emigrated to the United States.

These are three people who lived lives according to the teachings of Christianity and yet none of them killed anyone. These three people "did what their religion told them to do" and see what it cost them?

If you knew what Christianity was really about, then you would understand that just because people call themselves Christian does not mean they are and what they do that is hurtful is not what Christianity is about. I think you should learn about Christian teachings, rather than church doctrines, so that you can be informed before you make statements such as "they do what their religion tells them to".

Originally posted by 547000
Separation from God is misery. Only hell, separated from God, is miserable. God made hell for the fallen angels but men who disobey will join them.

The times Jesus mentioned hell He always called it a place of torment.

The parable of the rich man in hell is probably the most well known one. The rich man was not sent there because he was rich, but that he lived with the attitude that his wealth was going to save him and he was cruel to others without money. The rich man called to Abraham and asked him to send Lazarus to cool his tongue because he was tormented in the flames. Abraham said there was no way that could happen and that they were separated by a great gulf.

Jesus did not say in that passage that Lazarus went to heaven for believing in Jesus or that the rich man went to hell for not believing in Him. Both the rich man and Lazarus went to their ultimate destinations for how they lived their lives here on earth.

The more the sciences push forward the less room there is for religion and the make-believe fears of hell and judgement day.

Heavens in the clouds once and hell under our feet deep in the fires of the earth - well we been into space, no heaven, we dug deep into the earth no hell either. who knew

Originally posted by Biigs
The more the sciences push forward the less room there is for religion and the make-believe fears of hell and judgement day.

Heavens in the clouds once and hell under our feet deep in the fires of the earth - well we been into space, no heaven, we dug deep into the earth no hell either. who knew

Heaven is not in the clouds. Heaven is beyond space, and no scientist has ever seen all there is to space or beyond space. I read the other day that scientists believe space is finite, so what is beyond the finite? And we have only dug so deep in the earth. The rest of what is there is really assumption.

The human eye can only see so far, the rest is unobservable, and science only deals with the observable. But science has no explanation for things like memories, thoughts, inspiration, dream meanings, or even the emotional bonds that defy space and time that cause people to mentally connect with others.

For instance, how would you explain this? One day I sat down at my computer to write something, I am a writer and write screenplays. That day though, I was struck by inspiration to write a poem, which is not what I do normally and the theme of the poem was feeling invisible. It was not that I feel invisible, but it was inspiration. At that same time, my cousin in England was mowing her yard and suddenly had the thought that I was feeling invisible that day and later when I talked to her, she told this to me. Her sudden thought occurred the same time I was writing. How does science explain that?

How does science explain how a person thinks about another just moments before the other called them on the phone, or how do we know the song that is about to play on the radio just before it plays or how do mothers know their children need help when their children are not near them? These are things science cannot explain because it is not observable. Scientists only study what they can see, but because they are limited to that, they cannot concede that something is beyond that.

For the Christian, faith is not based on what we have seen, but what we have not seen but know it is there.

reply to post by WarminIndy


I don't think I said Lazarsus went to heaven for believing in Jesus. That doesn't seem to be the only criteria to me. I am not protestant or believe salvation is by faith alone.

Matthew 25:41

"Then the king will say to those on his left, 'Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels!"

Hell was made for the fallen angels. What was their sin? Pride and disobedience.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

I don't think I said Lazarsus went to heaven for believing in Jesus. That doesn't seem to be the only criteria to me. I am not protestant or believe salvation is by faith alone.

Matthew 25:41

"Then the king will say to those on his left, 'Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels!"

Hell was made for the fallen angels. What was their sin? Pride and disobedience.

And if God sent them there, then that must mean that He has determined they should go there. But the fallen angels went because they followed Satan, who was full of pride and disobedience.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Uh.. okay. So what are we arguing about anyway?

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Uh.. okay. So what are we arguing about anyway?

I don't know, I thought I was replying to someone else and probably got lost in thought while I was typing. I seem to have stream of consciousness when replying to someone and go with the thought in my head at the time. I would not argue with someone I agreed with.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Oh, all right. Honest mistake.

I had trouble seeing where we disagreed.

You don't go to hell for not listening to God, only for not listening to Jesus. According to the bible you can be as evil as you want because you are born evil anyway and Jesus died for your sins:

"For by grace you are saved,through faith; and this not of yourself, it is God's gift" - Ephesians 2:8
"and not of works, that anyone might boast." - Ephesians 2:9



Hell is not eternal punishment:

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire This is the second death" - Revelation 20:14

Hell is not an eternal punishing, it's an eternal punishment. The eternal punishment is death, nonexistence, annihilation of your soul.


FIRE is JUDGEMENT:

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire." - Matthew 7:19

"the fire will test the quality of each man's work." - 1 Cor 3:13

reply to post by Greatest I am


to spur "donations" and fewer questions

Originally posted by Vandalour
In my reality we ALL go to heaven, no exceptions. we are all one
yes even Hitler and murders, our life essence go back to the creator
to us the creator is unknown, could it be alien ? sure.
Acording to people that died and come back, hell is not a "location" but a flash feeling of all the bad things you done in your life, that flashback could be some what "unpleasant" and could be the hell everybody is talking about.

Would an alien or otherworldly God be able to judge us correctly though?

Would you just trust it if indeed it was the genocidal bible God for instance?

Seems like I would take his judgment and tell him where to shove it.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Insearch89
If it's true then we all can agree that some people deserve it. If it's a lie it's a good lie to keep us in line and kinda chaos free.

Hmm. A good lie.

Is it a lie that you would perpetuate while having to put up with the harms that religions do?

Like these harms.

African witches and Jesus
www.youtube.com...

Jesus Camp 1of 9
www.youtube.com...

Promoting death to Gays.
www.youtube.com...

Would it still be worth a good lie?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

It is just a blessing of god remembering what they have done.

Some people say that sins are a fire in our hearts. In this world , there is a curtain between our hearts and that fire.

But in the judgement day , there is no curtain.

Torture to bring out memories.

For how long?

Regards
DL