What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

Originally posted by FidelityMusic
No one will burn until Judgement day. Hell is the place in which sinners and Satan await their judgement. If you even knew what you were talking about, you'd know that there will be a new Earth and a new Heaven. Once judgement day has passed there will be no more hell, the souls who face judgement and are sent to burn on "Judgement Day" will perish along with hell. They will exist no more.

What a game for your God to play!
Create a place for eternal bliss as well as a place for eternal death.
Then create beings whom he loves dearly and watches over.
And in the end, decide which to consider "trash" and "throw away" into the place for eternal death and which to cling to and love in the place for eternal bliss.
Even man, with all his faults, is greater and more responsible.

I guess that scripture is wrong then when it says that God makes all things perfect and for his pleasure.
Then again, those who follow the genocidal God of the bible might see some pleasure in all that killing of souls. They do not care about the killing of humans so souls are just as easy for them to enjoy dying. Thanks for your reply Christian.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by 0thetrooth0
the more u think about it, the more it doesnt make sense, why would God punish us for eternity, how could he live with himself knowing that some people will always suffer, i dont understand how christians and muslims can accept this doctrine, this just scares the hell out of people and makes them do whatever their religion tells them, at the end of the day people who r religious are like that because they ant to get into heaven n avoid hell, most importantly avoid hell, hell is also emphasized more by priests and imams, a guy once asked a muslim scholar, what do you have to say to the atheist? the scholar replied, think about he consequence of not believing in God, thats like another way of saying that you should be a muslim because you do not want to burn in hell forever! for the people who r religious i just got one quote for ya, i dont remember who said it but it goes something like this, even if gods didnt exist it would be necessary to invent them...think about that for a second, even if God and hell didnt exist, somebody would still have come up with the concept..

Perhaps then. Not now.

www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by pryed -eyed-one
It's a figment of your imagination. Implanted since birth to control you. Look up at night. On a clear night. With a telescope. Or read some other books.

Ease up my my friend.

I do not believe in hell or bible God.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by jburg6
Hell doesn't necessarily "scare" people into doing good. Everyone continues to "sin" and do bad things even after sealing their place in Heaven.

To me, the purpose of an everlasting hell is to give those who exercise free-will to deny the existence of God a just punishment for their knowing refusal to acknowledge their creator. Simply destroying someone's soul would be an easy way out for them.

So even though God hides and will not come out to prove his reality, those who will not reject logic and reason for faith are doomed to hell.

If you think that is justice then you must be a Christian.

You are forgetting to do unto others but then again, that is not the Christian way is it.

Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity in heaven watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.

You should think of hell just a bit and recognize that God would not create such an immoral construct. Lose your barbaric tribal mentality. We are in 2011, not 111.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

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www.youtube.com...

Regards
DL

Originally posted by WarminIndy
.

You are aware I am sure that all those egregious crimes that you say should be subject to a life for a life, God has done in spades.

Do you judge your genocidal God with the same standards that you judge man with?

No man ever genocide all but 8 humans.


It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

The wage of sin is death. What sin did Jesus do to earn his wage?

------------------------

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by boony
Where in the bible does it say hell is eternal for humanity?
If in the garden of Eden humanity was removed from the "tree of life", then does that mean we as humans are not eternal, just mortals. The tree of knowledge is different from the tree of life.
hell was created for demons
What a bunch of talkers and daydreamers. I havnt read much on this thread based on real teaching, only silly assumptions and outright dumb guesses

Do you believe in demons?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Theophorus
Hell is not a place if punishment because you sinned. Hell is a state of being separated from God by choice.

Sinse God is not showing up anywhere, is it not more of a question of God absenting himself from man?

If not, when was the last time you got instructions from him?
Direct contact is all one can trust with the bible as screwed up as it is.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by 547000
Separation from God is misery. Only hell, separated from God, is miserable. God made hell for the fallen angels but men who disobey will join them.

Are you separated from God right now and if not, tell us about, I don't know, his hair.

Regards
DL

Hell is not a real place, though it is an experience. To see what hell is, imagine all that you believe you are, then at death everything that was not true gets removed. Those who lived very worldly lives will suffer the torment of having their delusion destroyed and burn with the pain of loss of everything they believed they "had". Then a being will come and ask a simple question: Do you want to love, or to have the power of fear or go back to your old life? The answer determines your fate. In the end your consciousness is stripped of all but pure awareness to merge again with God.

Originally posted by eywadevotee
Hell is not a real place, though it is an experience. To see what hell is, imagine all that you believe you are, then at death everything that was not true gets removed. Those who lived very worldly lives will suffer the torment of having their delusion destroyed and burn with the pain of loss of everything they believed they "had". Then a being will come and ask a simple question: Do you want to love, or to have the power of fear or go back to your old life? The answer determines your fate. In the end your consciousness is stripped of all but pure awareness to merge again with God.

You know this as a fact, how?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by 547000
Separation from God is misery. Only hell, separated from God, is miserable. God made hell for the fallen angels but men who disobey will join them.

Seperation from God is an illusion...

You can't seperate yourself from what you are made of...

And hell is just a silly fear based conversion tactic...

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by WarminIndy
.

You are aware I am sure that all those egregious crimes that you say should be subject to a life for a life, God has done in spades.

Do you judge your genocidal God with the same standards that you judge man with?

No man ever genocide all but 8 humans.


It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

That sounds like a parroting of Richard Dawkins. Clearly you do not understand the death of Jesus, you place it on the same level as a mere prisoner being executed. Yes, Jesus knew He was to die, and even though He could have at any time called a hundred thousand angels to "rescue" Him, He chose not to. His purpose was to fulfill the will of God and He said to Pontius Pilate, "You have no power over my life, I have the power to give my life and take it up again". You nor I have that kind of authority over our own lives, we cannot take up our lives after it is gone. We may believe we can take it through suicide, but oftentimes, that does not even work for some people.

The question is, right now, this very night, do you really know the condition of your soul? Have you lived as morally as possible? If you have lived morally, where did the concept of morality come from? Did it come from your own interpretation of morality? Did it come from your friends or family's interpretation? Did it come from the society that you surround yourself with? What is the basis of interpretation for your morality? And if your life is moral, how do deal with the times you have failed another person? These are things every philosophical moralist must question and hope for answer of.

It is one thing to say you do not believe in the Bible, or that you do not believe in God, but if you believe in something, is it your own soul? What determines for you that your soul is right? Is it because you believe that it is or because you say it is? What determines it?

The interpretation of man-based morality is very loose, to say the least. Moral relativism might work in theory but we all know there are universal laws about morality that we must not break. What happens when a person speaks a moral law, then twists it to fulfill their own lusts? That is moral relativism. And if morality is relative, the consequences would then be relative, but they are not. What determines the rightness of your soul?

reply to post by Greatest I am


God doesn't decide, WE decide with our actions, we choose what we do and not do. He just puts you where you yourself choose to be.

God does make all things perfect. Remember that humans were created in his image and have the will to choose who they are as a person, what they do, and what they become. From the day we learned of Good and Evil, and chose Evil, we lost a piece of that perfection as HUMAN BEINGS due to our actions, we were created perfect but became something else.. It's up to you to choose your actions in life and keep your soul in this HUMAN state as pure as possible so when you die you're pure and can enter Gods kingdom. If you choose otherwise, that is on you, not God. For you to put the blame on him and talk as if he was the bad one just shows you have a different perception from him and you're distant from him, you have no connection towards him whatsoever. That choice is solely up to you.

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Vandalour
In my reality we ALL go to heaven, no exceptions. we are all one
yes even Hitler and murders, our life essence go back to the creator
to us the creator is unknown, could it be alien ? sure.
Acording to people that died and come back, hell is not a "location" but a flash feeling of all the bad things you done in your life, that flashback could be some what "unpleasant" and could be the hell everybody is talking about.

Would an alien or otherworldly God be able to judge us correctly though?

Would you just trust it if indeed it was the genocidal bible God for instance?

Seems like I would take his judgment and tell him where to shove it.

Regards
DL

Ummm.. dont know if you read my post wrong, because I dont think there will be any "judgement" as I think we ALL go the "Heaven". Heaven as the source that created mankind, be it alien or robots

reply to post by Greatest I am


Don't know about His hair, but His light is comforting,

reply to post by 547000

God made hell for the fallen angels but men who disobey will join them.

Where do you get that from?
Did it ever occur to you that who you call God did not create everything?
The gods, as far as I understand it, are a product of the universe coming into existence and do not have power over the entire universe but can be influential in specific circumstances.
Oops, seems you already answered that with Matthew 25:41
That is an example of apocalyptic eschatology, which in general is what Mathew is, an apocalypse.
The general idea is that there are people who have taken sides in the spiritual battle between good and evil, and have chosen the side of Satan, to serve him in a physical way, as in taking up arms and going into battle to kill the ones that God would like to preserve.
Things are not so clear cut as to who these people are. For example, someone who was there in the aftermath of the destruction of Jerusalem may think that obviously the Romans were the agents of Satan, but another person would say, no, the Romans were the agents of God to punish the wickedness of the people who were doing what apparently was wrong, in Jerusalem.
Mathew says that this is a tough question and that we should not think we can judge, and then go out and kill Roman soldiers indiscriminately because you just don't know. So, don't worry, and relax a little bit because Jesus has matters in hand and will sort them all out. Of course this is all explained metaphorically, but it would have been pretty clear to those in 70 A.D. what he meant.

Hmm, I'll post my thoughts on the matter. Please keep in mind that my ideas are just that--ideas----I don't really believe that any one person/religon has all the answers. Also keep in mind that my ideas contain alot of "given" beliefs (such as the idea that hell exists in the first place, etc)

I believe that God dosen't send people to hell so much as people create their own hell.

When people die, I believe their souls become "eternal" for better or worse, and time ceases to exist. If you've lived a good life, you take these qualities with you, and if you've lived a bad life, these qualities are also eternalized. My definition of eternity is not 1 billion billion years etc, I envision eternity as sort of an ever present "present" if you will. Subsequently you wouldn't be able to "repent"--you are who you are at that point.

I also believe that all men will stand before God in judgement. However, my idea of judgement is a little different from standard Christian dogma. I believe that you're placed in the presence of God--which is essentially the ultimate "truth and purity". Lies or internal justifications won't be possible here. A person with shame and remorse at this point is not going to be able to dwell in the presence of God. As a matter of fact, I think that a soul in such a state would be in MORE torment in a heavenly place than in a place where the presence of God is absent.

I could go into more detail, but that's the jist of it. Rather than quoting scripture (which there are scriptures in mulitple religons that support this viewpoint) I think the movie "What Dreams May Come" provides a decent example. For those of you who've seen the movie, SPOILER ALERT you know that Robin William's character dosen't "see" his family members until he's ready, and his wife essentially places herself in hell.

reply to post by Pleportamee

. . . and if you've lived a bad life, these qualities are also eternalized.

I don't know if that happens like that exactly.
Jesus said don't do anything to these children because their angels stands before God day and night.
It could be that at a certain point your angel abandons you because they can no longer face God, then you loose representation in heaven and are forgotten.
And Hell is a natural sort of thing, as natural as death is, but you need something other than just not being evil, you need someone in heaven who is thinking about you, and who you are keeping a connection with.

reply to post by jburg6


"the purpose of an everlasting hell is to give those who exercise free-will to deny the existence of God a just punishment for their knowing refusal to acknowledge their creator."

Did I hear it right? "Knowing refusal"? Nobody knows if God exists, nobody. How can you refuse the existence of something if you don't know that it exists in the first place? A very old book and a testimony of a fellow human being (who also heard it from other people) doesn't come nowhere near to being a proof. Had God briefed us, individually at birth, saying something "here's the deal, if you choose not to believe in me, you'd go to hell, etc...", then I would agree with your statement and see the hell as just punishment for wilful rejection of the Creator.
Hope you examine the logic of your statement.
Good luck.

Originally posted by Theophorus
Hell is not a place if punishment because you sinned. Hell is a state of being separated from God by choice.

Well I choose not to go to Hell. So now what does God do? He created the rules, therefore it's He who would be sending me and others to Hell.