Police 'killed deaf cyclist with stun gun after he failed to obey instructions to stop'

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
When I say "police their own" I do not mean investigate with the intent to whitewash or coverup. I meant more along the original meaning of the word "police" in it's verb form. The police need to remember there they are there to serve the public good and are not themselves above the law.

I was not suggesting a coverup / whitewash would occur. What I was referring to was public perception when it comes to the police and accusations of wrong doing. Since people arent familiar with the laws that govern law enforcement actions, any internal investigation that clears an officer is viewed / can be viewed as a coverup / whitewash.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
With the militarization of police via swat teams I would hope that at least we could see a higher standard of bravery in the field also.

Level of training is determined by the agency when they create srt / swat teams. In larger cities with more resources the agency has their own. In areas where its more rural the county sheriffs office and smaller municipalities pool resources.

As far as bravery goes it cant be viewed in that manner. Law Enforcement does not have duty to act. If an officer responds to shots fired and upon arrival he sees 3 armed people run into a house, its not bravery if that officer chooses to go after them and its a very good way to end up dead.

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
I cant tell you how much of a turn off it was for me (and no doubt countless millions more) to watch footage of the Columbine school incident over a decade ago....when the police were afraid to go in until over 2 hours after the shooting stopped. I understand the need to gather facts and assess the situation tactically but this was a rescue situation where minutes meant lives. These were school kids.

Your information about Columbine is incorrect. When that incident occured the operating procedure was to wait for backup to arrive to secure perimeter. A request was made for SWAT to respond, which they did, and it was swat that was responsible for going into the highschool.

The officers on scene who did not immediately enter werent being cowards, they were doing exactly what their training taught them to do - hold position and wait for swat.

2 major incidents occured that fundamentally shifted law enforcement practices -
* - The North Hollywood shootout - 2 heavily armed (automatic weapons) covered head to toe in body armor robbed the bank. On their way out of the bank police confronted them which resulted in a massive police response. The weapons the police used were no match for the bank robbers and their bullet resistant vests.

* - LAPD line supervisors gave the order for officers to take head shots.
* - LAPD officers responded to a local gun store and grabbed a bunch of assault rifles and ammunition (owner cooperated) and returned to the scene.

To put into perspective just how bad that incident was the entire city of Los Angelas Police department went on their highest tactical alert, and over 370 LAPD officers were present / involved in that mess. The 2 suspects were killed / committed suicide. 3 civilians were wounded as were 18+ LAPD officers.



* - Columbine shooting - Initial police response.

The fundamental shifts from these 2 incidents?
The LAPD incident forced law enforcement agenecies across the US to review their policies / procedures / thought process on duty weapons. A major result was the addition of assault rifles to patrol cars / patrol officers instead of restricting them to just SWAT teams.

The Columbine incident caused police agencies across the US to reevaluate their policy and procedures on active shooter incidents. Prior to columbine the pratice was to contain and wait for swat. Afterwords law enforcement agencies put into place that as soon as officers arrive on scene they are authorized to immediately take action.

Ideally its recommended police wait for at least one backup officer to arrive, regardless of jusrisdiction / agency, before entering that type of incident. However it is also understood that sometimes that may not be an option.

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
Do you think that if a couple of .....

Actually I will answer that. Yes the secret service would act. The flaw in your comparison is the fact the seccrete service has automatic assault rifles as well as more than one officer on the grounds to assist them.

Had the standards for law enforcement had been the same as the secret service, then the North Holywood shootout as well as columbine may have never ocurred, and if they did the body count might have been a lot lower than it was.


As in the ops article it looks like there was a breakdown with the officers actions. As with any Tragedy we will review what happened and find ways to refine training and policies to ensure it doesnt occur again.

reply to post by spacedonk


Of course it will lend to increased usage. There is no other possible outcome and none other is expected.

reply to post by spacedonk


Police officers no longer deserve any liability protection and should be held accountable for their mess ups in both civil and criminal court. This "officer" belongs in jail before he murders someone else.

Just think how many other innocent people they kill but get away with it by lying, for example if he was wearing earphones, theyd have just thrown them away and said he refused to stop.

There isnt a profession I trust less than the filth, although estate agents and lawyers come close.

Originally posted by Frontkjemper

Originally posted by spacedonk
Any cops want to defend the use of a taser in this incident?

I have to agree with this, even though I am a big fan of the taser. I'm not a fan however, of how police just instantly jump the gun and pull the taser. It's one thing to use it on a person fleeing as long as that person is extremely violent. But I've seen instances where a cop is just an arm grab away from someone running where they instead decide to use their taser.

I mean come on. But in this case, what else would the police do? If they tackle him from the bike, not only do they risk injury for the guy on the bike, but themselves too. Plus, when you get a call like that, you don't know what the guy is up to. First of all, it was said he was drunk. Secondly, he's not listening to police when they tell him to get off the bike. (Yes, I got the part about him being deaf but the police didn't know that.) Are they not supposed to pursue someone when they're called? One day, that "old guy" on the bike may very well have been a pedophile, druggie or other criminal that should have been stopped.

So what happened to innocent until proven guilty? That guy might be a mass murderer or the antichrist so just whip out the easy button and shock him into submission?

I do wonder, it it had been a white man on that bike, would he still be alive? This did happen in South Carolina which culturally is still fighting the Civil Rights movement. I'm guessing the Officer that ended this mans life gets zero punishment.

Police officers should not be allowed to use any type of force that could potentialy be leathal to anyone with satisfying what ever 'rules" they operate under with repsect to use of a deadly weapon. This is unexcusible and the life of this man should not have ended under such circumstances. The officer and his CO should never be allowed to work as law enforcement again.

First, there is not a Scotland Neck, South Carolina. There is a Scotland Neck, North Carolina.

Second, there is not a SBI in South Carolina. There is SLED (South Carolina Law Enforcement Division) in South Carolina.

For the record, this incident took place in North Carolina not South Carolina.

The Mail got these two important facts about this incident wrong.. I wonder what other facts they got wrong.

Sad, infuriating story but it seems a little fact checking is in order.

This is such a sad thing to happen to a man with that condition.. is this what kind of world we live in? what is wrong with us.. sigh. We don't deserve to live i say nuke us all and call it quits.

I hope that cop dies painfully! F#@$@ idiot.

Originally posted by Zatox
This is such a sad thing to happen to a man with that condition.. is this what kind of world we live in? what is wrong with us.. sigh. We don't deserve to live i say nuke us all and call it quits.

I hope that cop dies painfully! F#@$@ idiot.

You can wish for your self to be nuked if you like, but don't bloody wish it on me & everybody else!

Let the victim's family tase the cops involved until they puke blood and their testacles light up. The police force is a cult and always will be. They are no different than thugs killing someone and then instantly scrapping a story together and sticking to it.

Everyday it's getting more difficult to be "pro-cop" ... terrible story. The police officer needs to be fired, brought up on charges and sued by the victims family. Also the entire department needs to be retrained in the way they use the stunguns.

Originally posted by MysticPearl


Seems they've run out of excuses. Can't blame them. Society has little, if any respect for their profession, given stories like this have been coming out consistently, and popping up all over ATS. Cops have repeatedly shown they aren't intelligent enough to handle the responsibility they are given, have extremely poor judgement, and think they are above the law, and the law doesn't apply to them.

I'm sorry to disagree with you however I personally do NOT believe that it is a matter of...

"they aren't intelligent enough to handle the responsibility they are given, have extremely poor judgement, and think they are above the law, and the law doesn't apply to them." as you have stated.

I believe that that human consciousnesses has collectively digressed to a point where people who hold ANY positions of authority (from those in the highest echelons of government to the hall monitor at your local elementrary school) have simply become infected with actually finding pleasure and almost orgasmic delight in being cruel, mean, controlling and outright sadistic.

It's like an actual disease that is spreading in an epidemic manner.

It reminds me of that movie called 28 Days Later.

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


Agreed. I think the cops don't know what kind of toll a tazer exerts on the body. Here's an idea, why not taze every cop out of the academy just to show them how hard it is to handle and the same for every non-letheal weapon. Hey, they can use those 80 year old women, I'm sure a 23 year old "tough guy" can handle it.

Poor guy. Best wishes to his family. What can be said to them after this pointless tragedy?

Inept cops. All involved should lose their badges. The one who tased the old man should face the same criminal charges a civilian would. This won't happen. To even hope for it is almost laughable. The best the family of the victim can realistically hope for is a large financial settlement. Actual justice, well, these are the brave men who protect society from criminals. Ahem.

It's also been suggested that a lot of these cases allegedly showing police abusing authority, are just over hyped media ratings getters of some sort. That the good things police do aren't dwelled upon or applauded. Hmm. Welcome to the world fellas. None of us get any kind of recognition for doing our jobs correctly or without incident. It's the way of the world. And it's not like when the police go above and beyond the call, and act in a heroic manner, that it's ignored. It's not. The simple reality is the bad incidences just outnumber the good. It's not even close.

Not all cops are bad. I hear that a lot. It can't even be argued. But what's the percentage of good to bad? How are we defining good and bad? Certainly if you only look at the number of officers that perpetrate crimes, it's pretty easy to say they're not all bad. But how about all those who perpetrate crimes plus those officers that know of or witness these crimes and turn the other way. How many would arrest and charge one of their brothers for assaulting a mere suspect? Aren't they bad cops as well? What's the ratio now? Where are the outraged voices of the good cops? You would think they would try to distance themselves no?

Meanwhile in NYC, police openly protest for the right to "Professional Privilege".

But corruption isn't rampant. It's a media smear job.

When is the unsavory reputation that police enjoy today justified?

Unfortunately, the police HAVE to carry some form of weapons. Everyone knows why..

Here, training again, is the issue. The American government keeps pumping out more and more police officers to handle the crime in the U.S. It is cheaper to place a less lethal weapon in their hand, rather than train them for an extra week in tactical communication, and appropriate response.

This is sickening. As ex law enforcement, I am saddened every day, by this kind of news. I am tired of trying to make excuses for these kinds of people. I defend what part I played in law enforcement because I loved it, and was genuinely more interested in helping people, than using force and exuding an authority in a manner not conducive to public safety..

It is important to have law enforcement. But it is more important for officers to understand their role. It is clearly forgotten here.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Who has the monopoly on force here? Those are the people I will be holding to a higher standard.

The old man was guilty of riding a bike while being black.

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by CosmicCitizen

 

Agreed. I think the cops don't know what kind of toll a tazer exerts on the body. Here's an idea, why not taze every cop out of the academy just to show them how hard it is to handle and the same for every non-letheal weapon. Hey, they can use those 80 year old women, I'm sure a 23 year old "tough guy" can handle it.

Actually almost all police acedmies across the country do train officers in the use and function of a taser, up to and including being tazed. This is done so we know how it feels, the effects of it on the body etc.

Secondly we are also pepper sprayed so we know the effects of that and what it does.

May I respectfully suggest you get your facts correct before making accusations?

reply to post by Xcathdra

I appreciate your thorough response. I did not compare the Hollywood/LA bank shootout but agree that the police on the scene were under armed (they even had to requistion some AR-15s from a local gun dealer to try to compete with the fully automatic AK-47s. Personally, if I was a police officer I would carry my own assault rifle and maybe even a sniper rifle in the trunk (and maybe a handful of AP rounds to boot). I know all about "discretion being the better part of valour" but it didnt take 2 hrs for SWAT to get to the Columbine HS did it? The average policeman isnt as trained for quasi-combat operations like members of SWAT or perhaps former military on the force but I guess SWAT waited for "backup" also then......