Jewish Holocaust On The Rise... Again?

I dont think Jews have it any worse in Iran than say, a black kid in an all white rich neigborhood, for example. Id really like to hear someone who meets this quiteria in Iran to see, but untill then, I'm just making an educated guess from what I see in the news. They're welcome there, but they dont exactly fit in. There have been previous reports of muslim on jew viloence there in some areas of Iran. No, I dont feel it's all over Iran, but yes I'm sure the feelings are the same overall.

I'm not singling out the Jews more than anyone else because of a pedistal I wish to place them upon. I do this simply because of what I see in the news and the way the world looks at israel. If it had been against say, cubans, and so much was put out there on todays occurance, I would say the same for them and bring that issue to light.

reply to post by Expat888

tut.. the world is opposed to israel and its crimes against humanity.

Some of the world is indeed... Some merely because they're evil Jews.

the world is NOT opposed to jewish people

Would that that were true... But, alas, the world has many that hate the Jewish people. Websites abound.

very large difference between the two.

You know that, and I know that; yet many do not. To hate Israel is to hate the Jew. And the other way around. Not right, but it's out there to see.

there are also many jewish people who are opposed to israel.

Indeed there are. ...and they're certainly welcome to their opinion. Though I'm not quite sure what constitutes many...

Really wish people would learn to differentiate between the two... Ahh well guess it gives the primitives something to squable over..

As I said, for many people who hate Jews, Israel is Judaism. There is no difference to them.

Carry on then

I thought this was an interesting quote.

There is only one thing more dangerous to the Jewish people then those gentiles who say the holocaust never occurred. It is the Jew who says it could never occur again. The former prepare the next tragedy. The latter guarantee that the Jews will not escape it. – Meir Kahane

reply to post by dontreally


Thank you for that quote. That says volumes! In a way I could have never hit home.

2nd

To the OP...I am still waiting to hear your explanation.
Again, being thousands of years old antisemitism can not be explained by internet hate sites or Nazi or neo-Nazi propaganda. So how do YOU explain it?
160 countries have ordered the Jews out. No they did not slaughter them. Like Bob they were simply told to go away. They were no longer desired, no future interaction with them was sought and contrary to what some on this thread have suggested, their countries did not fall apart with the loss of this segment of their population.
So what do you think caused this?

reply to post by Puck 22


Since he was 3 years old, Billies mother, ms Price would not allow him to go outside and play with the Martin family kids down the street. Billies mom had a falling out with the Martin kid's mom somewhere in highschool. Billies mom felt that ms Martin had stolen a former lover away and she could not forgive so easily. As the years went by, the tention grew between the families. Eventually one day, Billy and the Martin kid had a run in on the basketball court. Words were exchanged, mostly words heard from the parents of the two boys all the while growing up, then words came to blows and the fights continued to get worse as the years went by.

Many more years went by, and the Martins and the Prices lived meer houses apart, and still the conflict continued. Eventually, the Martin's and the Price's got older and the fight was pushed onto their children. Each family spoke harsh volumes about the other, which as before, ended up comming to blows time and again. Not only did the fighting continue between the two, but their friends eventually got involved. Over time, many of the friends were lost on either side, and perhaps as in this case, the Price's friends either dropped the cause or were no longer interested in what the Price's had to offer then, to hold onto their friendship. Classic tale of humanity.

Today, the conflict never stops between the two families, now grown to expand into more households, among friends that had nothing to do with the falling out many years before.


So... to answer your question... Something like this. We've had blood fueds, even here in america, that has started out in similar fashion over the last hundreds of years. People gather into factions, factions eventually caused friction with other factions, and down the road, it often came to blood and loss of life, especially when those factions became a large gathering; a people.

The story of the Jews is a very similar story. Someone felt something was stolen from them thousands of years ago. Then again in the last century. The fued has been going far too long and there are way too many "friends" taking sides.

So basicly... Why do the Jews get burdened with this for so many years.....?

Maybe they just got lucky...

Or maybe they're just on a prime piece of relastate. Remember, they live on the very ground that is sacred and holy according to 3 diffrent faiths and who know how many minor faiths. Jealousy is a major cause of problems.

A prime piece of real estate desired by others? You're kidding? Yes?
When the Jews were thrown out of Spain in the fifteenth century do you suggest that it was in any way motivated by the king of Spain's desire to possess land in the Middle East? How did throwing the Jews out of his country give him any claim to that land?
When the rulers of over a hundred countries threw the Jews out of their lands how did any of them establish a claim to ancient Israel as a result?

They were taking sides with Israel's enemies? Again, a joke, yes?
When the Jews were thrown out of Spain, Spain had just fought a long war with the Muslims to drive them out of Europe. The idea that they would then persecute Jews to please Muslims is nonsensical. You can't be serious.

Perhaps the enemy of the Jews you refer to is Christianity. Yet antisemiticism existed before Christianity. Try again.

While you have refused to answer my one question directly your answers to many other posts tells me you are interested only in responses that deal with what is wrong with the world for behaving this way and you have no desire to deal with the question 'What is wrong with the Jews that they have caused one country after another to throw them out in disgust? What are the Jews doing wrong? So many peoples around the world have migrated to other lands and merged with the local people and lived in peace yet the Jews seem unable to do this.
Countries separated by thousands of miles and thousands of years have said they want nothing to do with the Jews.Why? A conspiracy?
I saw a cartoon once in which a gentlemen was being told the one thing his last fifteen girlfriends who had dumped him had in common was him.
Do you understand how obnoxious a man would have to be after being called a creep and thrown out by over a hundred different women to not consider that perhaps he is doing something wrong and continue to seek out the flaw in these women's thinking?
To even ask what is wrong with these women while refusing to acknowledge himself as the possible cause should be enough for any intelligent person to question that man's ability to reason.
But as long as you wish to keep the discussion centered on the flaws of the hundred woman you will obviously never find the actual cause and so the real purpose of this thread is ????? To once more be able to say poor Jew ???? why do people pick on them ???? I don't know.
But if the purpose of this thread was an actual attempt to get at the cause of antisemiticism but the possibility that actions of the Jews might be responsible but is not to be mentioned then logic says you will never get to the answer and I therefore wonder at your motive for starting it.

reply to post by Puck 22

A prime piece of real estate desired by others? You're kidding? Yes?
When the Jews were thrown out of Spain in the fifteenth century do you suggest that it was in any way motivated by the king of Spain's desire to possess land in the Middle East? How did throwing the Jews out of his country give him any claim to that land?
When the rulers of over a hundred countries threw the Jews out of their lands how did any of them establish a claim to ancient Israel as a result?

They were taking sides with Israel's enemies? Again, a joke, yes?
When the Jews were thrown out of Spain, Spain had just fought a long war with the Muslims to drive them out of Europe. The idea that they would then persecute Jews to please Muslims is nonsensical. You can't be serious.

Perhaps the enemy of the Jews you refer to is Christianity. Yet antisemiticism existed before Christianity. Try again.

Perhaps the real enemy was the pseudo-religious merchant trade groups.

The Jewish expulsions from Spain and Portugal opened up a major opportunity for trade expansion to the Americas and to Northern Europe.

Many "Jews" and many Crypto-Jews migrated and became successful in business.
Many people today are descendent's of the original migrants.

Perhaps that was the real plan from the beginning?

The Monarchy had financial interests in the successes.

I would also like to add, Puc..

One More View Closer To Home

This kind of touches on my previous responce. It happen to come at the right time, so..

reply to post by Puck 22


Kicked out of spain... perhaps because the catholics thought them unworthy? That's pretty much the census with the CC since the beginning. The Jews lost out on their covinent with god and the church became the chosen, according to that belief. Dont say it isnt so, I know the religion I was born into well enough. I'm not saying that catholics push this today, but then, today is quite a big diffrence compared to what the church did back when. Face it... Jews were looked down upon due to the very bible that christians follow today. Why? Because in that bible, it told of constant problems with Israel doing right with the laws they were given.

My point of view is... If the bible had said... The English... instead of Jews... Do you really think things would be the same for Jews today? Hardly. I believe the witch hunt would then be against the english.

We've had a guide on why we should hate jews or not trust them since the beginning. You cant even insinuate that it was because the Jews happen to take over all the money making schemes they could get their hands on.

So what if they did... It's no diffrent than american/world business today. So hate them for being more money smart? Hate them for living in a land that they firmly believe they've lived for countless centuries? Hate them for being more competative? So which is it? These people hardly had the chance to become a nation in over the last 2 thousand years, and now when they do get a piece of rock no bigger than a large city, the rest of the world wants to take their realestate. Yeah, that place that the whole world holds just as sacred as they... but it's their religion that spawned ours, yet we want to take the origin of even our own religion and claim it for ourselves and the muslims, but damn the Jews?

Sorry Puc... That just doesnt seem humane to me. I'm sure I'll hear next that the land wasnt originaly theirs... they havnt lived there in so long and they had to move the muslims out to let them in, who of course, live all among the middle east, but yet we should give them lil israel too?

We gave american natives small peices of land in place of the whole contenent. We gave Israel a piece of land so they could have their own lil nation again, now the world wants to take it back. That's no diffrent than what we did to the natives, yet it's justified for one but not the other.

While you have refused to answer my one question directly your answers to many other posts tells me you are interested only in responses that deal with what is wrong with the world for behaving this way and you have no desire to deal with the question 'What is wrong with the Jews that they have caused one country after another to throw them out in disgust?

How am I refusing? I'm answering your questions, but you only see more questions in my replys. I feel that my replys are very much to the point. Wether or not you see them for what they are is all you, buddy. I wont answer everyones questions here, because, some, like the one I'm responding to, seems to be reaching. I dont like answering questions that dont require much thought. Your questions have pretty clear answers if you think about it. Every point you try to make with a question, has an obvious answer..

Crusades... Chatholic Church... Romans... Babalonians... Muslims... Nazi Germany... Muslims/Palastine... the world...

hope that helps clear your mind a bit. If not, sorry, I dont know what else to say to you.

reply to post by theRhenn

My point of view is... If the bible had said... The English... instead of Jews... Do you really think things would be the same for Jews today? Hardly. I believe the witch hunt would then be against the english.

What was "England" called in biblical times?

Why were they not targeted?

What would have been the reason?

How many modern nations existed back then?

reply to post by xuenchen


I used "the English" as an example. Rather... "Insert your race here".

My point is... The Bible says -----> Jews = Children that didnt listen to dad and did what they wanted to, even though dad said, if they listened to him and did what he wanted, they would be ok and no one could touch them.

As christians, chatholics, baptists and what not understand growing up...

Jews killed Jesus... Bad Jews! ...and some fail to keep in mind that Jesus himself was a Jew.

Insert any other race, and I feel that they would be looked at as and in place of the Jews.


What I gather from Puc's questions is this... Jews are responsible for their own downfall throughout time and all history. Everyone hated them, so they MUST have done something to deserve it.

That same questioning makes me ask...

Are all blacks responsible for slavery? Sure, their own people sold their old, crippled, unwanted as slaves in the beginning. Some were just stolen from their homes. Even if those slaves were ALL gotten from their own people selling them, is it their fault that they are slaves?

That kinda thinking is VERY closed minded.

Kicked out of Spain because of religious bigotry ?? No argument. Look at Isabella's confessor and there is no need to go any further but....
The question is not why were they kicked out of Spain, the question is why antisemitism has existed on such a large scale for such a long period of time.
My point...
They were kicked out of over a hundred European countries resulting in none of those countries obtaining any hold on the Jewish homeland so I doubt it has to do with them desiring that piece of real estate.
They have been kicked out of a hundred Christian nations so I doubt it has to do with any long-time feud with Muslims.
They were kicked out of countries before Christianity existed or when it was still limited to a dozen apostles preaching in marketplaces so I doubt it can be explained by Christian antagonism.
Tacitus was describing them as the most hated of people back in the first century A.D. long before Christian influence had any power and I doubt Tiberius had them exiled to please any early pope.
So if it is not their real estate or problems with competing faiths such as Islam or Christianity, what do you think it was?
Perhaps you have not answered my question because I have not made it clear.
How do you explain antisemitic feelings that go back thousands of years pre-dating both the Christian and Muslim faiths?

reply to post by theRhenn

My point is... The Bible says -----> Jews = Children that didnt listen to dad and did what they wanted to, even though dad said, if they listened to him and did what he wanted, they would be ok and no one could touch them.

As christians, chatholics, baptists and what not understand growing up...

Jews killed Jesus... Bad Jews! ...and some fail to keep in mind that Jesus himself was a Jew.

In the Bible ?.....

Where does it say all this ?

From OT or NT ?

I agree the Bible is influencial......but is it really THAT literal ?

reply to post by Puck 22


You make it sound, or attempt to anyway, like they were "kicked out" for some nefarious reason...

Nope. They were persecuted for the simple reason that they're different from the other folks around them. They are a distinct minority. They're insular, keeping mostly to themselves. They are, as a whole, hard working; rather successful as a group. ...and don't particularly care to answer to an authority outside of God.

This makes them a target of that authority they don't particularly care to answer to. So, something goes wrong...

People, being people, and being rather dumb in times of stress, have a convenient scapegoat pointed out to them go ape-poo all over them. Want to take a guess as to who that oh, so convenient scapegoat was? Yep. Those quiet, rather unassuming Jews. Jews who are left wondering what the heck just happened? One moment we're minding our own business, then Wham!!, we're burned out of house and home, our businesses are burned to the ground. ...and we're being slaughtered.

Religious leaders, especially ones who pine for some from of secular power, and political leaders who sometimes need an "enemy" to retain their influence/power will go to great lengths to gain it. Scapegoats are an effective way of getting what they want.

Blame someone for the ills of the world. Who makes a handy target? A small group. One preferably that is already viewed with some suspicion. Then provide "proof". Proof, of course, is subjective in most cases.

Amazing how similar Middle Ages Spain and Europe are/were to our own time, isn't it? Oh, so convenient scapegoats available to place the blame upon. Be it Jews. Be it the banks. Be it Muslims. Be it gays.

The more things change. The more they stay the same.

Originally posted by Puck 22
To the OP...I am still waiting to hear your explanation.
Again, being thousands of years old antisemitism can not be explained by internet hate sites or Nazi or neo-Nazi propaganda. So how do YOU explain it?
160 countries have ordered the Jews out. No they did not slaughter them. Like Bob they were simply told to go away. They were no longer desired, no future interaction with them was sought and contrary to what some on this thread have suggested, their countries did not fall apart with the loss of this segment of their population.
So what do you think caused this?

We'll you can spin things anyway you want them however, if you want the truth you will have to look deeper!

So Bob (Jews) lived with 160 girlfriends (countries) who over the years, each kicked him out because there was something wrond with Bob right? WRONG! There is NEVER anything right about hatred and bigotry!

When you say he/they were kicked out and not slaughtered, you are completely ignorant of the real facts as many Bob's were slaughtered for the simple fact that they were Jewish. Have you ever heard what happened in Leeds, England in 1189? In 1298 Jews were massacred in Ifhauben, Austria and also in Wurzburg, Germany! 1349 Jew's were massacred in Freilsburg and another massacre in Augsburg, both in Germany! 1370 Jews are massacred and expelled in Brussels, Belgium! 1391 Jews are massacred in Toledo and Barcelona in Spain! Same year 1391 Jews are massacred in Palma, Majorca! 1648 12,000 Jews massacred in Narol, Podlia! 1655 Jews of Lublin all massacred!

Now lets get to the point as to why Jew's were massacred or expelled as you obviously think Bob has smelly feet or pick his nose or that Jews brought it on themselves for killing Yeshua ben Yosef (AKA Jesus Christ to you) when in fact it was the Romans that crucified and then lobbed a spear into him for good effect and then 300 years later decided to embrace him as their saviour to save their crumbling empire and then blame Bob (the Jews).

In the middle ages because of bigotry, most jobs were prohibited to Jews because they were considered outsiders and god forbid we can't let the outsiders take our jobs (sounds familiar in the 21st century doesn't it?) anyway, the Jews were allowed to trade in goods, worked hard and were very successful as businessmen, they were encouraged by Royal families, Church and States to lend their wealth to finance wars, crusades and the lifestyles of the rich and famous. All was fine whilst the funds were flowing into the royal and church coffers, unfortunately bad things happen when it comes time to pay back what is owed! And that, my friend, is the reason Bob and the Jews were expelled at best and massacred at worst, FACT!

Lending wealth is a very dangerous game, ask the Knights Templers, if you can find any?

In my life, I have helped so many people financially over the years and at which time I am a great guy to these people, unfortunately when you ask for the money to be repaid (and I have NEVER asked for interest, I am not a banker) all of a sudden, I am evil, no one wants to speak with me, etc., etc. Now when I still help people financially, I have learned a long hard lesson, never expect the money back!

Is money lending/usuary right or wrong? I really don't know but that is not the discussion.

I hope my input has helped some in understanding the truth! Cheers

PS. BTW I guess some Bob's do have smelly feet or pick their noses, but by the same token so do many Jim's, John's, Fritz's, Piere's, Somchai's, Chan's and Geronimo's! BOB/JEW is still a human being

You seem to be missing something.
Two counties, or make it three or four or ten or twenty, separated by thousands of miles and dozens of centuries need a scapegoat to pick on. All these counties have dozens of different ethnic communities existing in them. Yet all these countries, unknown to each other, each select the same ethnic group to serve as their scapegoats.
Why do you suppose that is? Coincidence?
Do you think there were people sneaking around Carthage thousands of years ago whispering 'Blame the Jews. No one likes them anyway"? So how did this ancient conspiracy begin?
We are talking pre-Templars and any Christian teachings against usury did not exist yet but still no one said 'Let's blame the Hittites or let's burn out the Phoneticians. Why do you think they all, despite the geographical and time differences, kept choosing the same minority ethnic group out of the many existing in their lands, to blame?
Their isolation one from another would seem to indicate each country made their own decision based on what was happening in that particular country and not due to any worldwide conspiracy.
Discussing modern examples of antisemitism will never get you back to the root cause. Go back to pre-Christian times and try again.

Oh, and oops. I forgot we were not to deal with 'what did the Jews do that resulted in this?' but only in 'what's wrong with the rest of the world?' Sorry

Originally posted by Puck 22
You seem to be missing something.
Two counties, or make it three or four or ten or twenty, separated by thousands of miles and dozens of centuries need a scapegoat to pick on. All these counties have dozens of different ethnic communities existing in them. Yet all these countries, unknown to each other, each select the same ethnic group to serve as their scapegoats.
Why do you suppose that is? Coincidence?
Do you think there were people sneaking around Carthage thousands of years ago whispering 'Blame the Jews. No one likes them anyway"? So how did this ancient conspiracy begin?
We are talking pre-Templars and any Christian teachings against usury did not exist yet but still no one said 'Let's blame the Hittites or let's burn out the Phoneticians. Why do you think they all, despite the geographical and time differences, kept choosing the same minority ethnic group out of the many existing in their lands, to blame?
Their isolation one from another would seem to indicate each country made their own decision based on what was happening in that particular country and not due to any worldwide conspiracy.
Discussing modern examples of antisemitism will never get you back to the root cause. Go back to pre-Christian times and try again.

Oh, and oops. I forgot we were not to deal with 'what did the Jews do that resulted in this?' but only in 'what's wrong with the rest of the world?' Sorry

As your the one rejecting what I and others have told you and are insinuating that the Jews MUST have done something to be slaughtered and exiled from all these countries, obviously not believing that they have been made scapegoats for others problems, let me ask you - why do you think Jews have been slaughtered and exiled from 160 countries? Please explain to us as to why that is? Stop insinuating and start giving your reasons, I would like to see your facts/opinions on the matter!

reply to post by seagull


reply to post by Puck 22



Perhaps we substitute all references to "Jews" with "Corporations", and remove the modern definitions of religion.

The ancient attitudes developed by "Jews" may be similar to the attitudes developed by "Corporations" in recent centuries.

The "common" people of ancient times were under the gun from the Merchant Elite every bit as much as the "common" people today are under the gun from the big "Corporations".

The ancient Babylonian business "laws" are similar to today's corporate laws.

Many are/were considered international.

This correlation might explain the widespread "hatred" in ancient times.

The common denominator at the time was the presence of trade groups that may have been snubbing local "authority". Local "authority" must have had some merrit or it would not have existed. Ancient "authorities" were also "taxing authorities". Perhaps not well recieved by the trade groups.

The "religious" aspects ("God") may have been an "inside" code of conduct, and it seems that it was unique at the time, since other "established" "religions" did not exist to that level.

Corporations get their share of "hate" and "discrimination".
Some nations "expel" certain business practices and even "cast out" entire corporations.
All done by "local authorities".

Maybe we are looking at the problem the wrong way.

Today, we see a lot of "hate" for the corporations and banks.

@ THREAD TITLE

I sure hope so!