Compelling and Convincing Evidence that Life was Created! What Say You?

reply to post by MrXYZ

Ray's using the same laughable "computers have a programmer, ergo we are designed" nonsense argument

Until you can prove that life is not a product of intelligent design then you're argument is just that - nonsense.

By all accounts - life has all the hallmark of intelligent design.

From the micro to the macro - they all exhibit intelligence in the way they were created.

Again - the DNA - without ignoring the facts presented in the op (video) what convinced you that it's not designed?

Can the DNA code design and create itself? In other words where did the information in the DNA came from?

To say "we don't know" is an argument from ignorance and what worst it based on "blind faith".

I on the other hand based my belief of solid verifiable facts.

E=mc2 for one.
DNA code for two.
Life = life for three.
etc...

reply to post by edmc^2


I dont see how any of the reasons you listed prove that life was intelligently designed, if they did, I missed it, and I would ask you politely to reexplain them, as I do not wish to search through 200 pages to find if you already did. The problem, which I'm sure you've heard, is the fact that an intelligent being or force of some kind, designed the universe we are in today. The reason you give, being that the universe is too complicated to have created itself. Then that begs the question, if an intelligent designer has to be there to create anything complicated like our universe, then what led to the manifestation of this intelligent designer. And may you please go on to explain, how this being came into being, without a designer. I think what I'm trying to get to here, is where does it begin? Maybe the universe was created by an intelligent designer, but then how did that designer get there? By rule of association you could say, that if the intelligent designer arose out of "thin air", then so did the universe.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by edmc^2

 

I dont see how any of the reasons you listed prove that life was intelligently designed, if they did, I missed it, and I would ask you politely to reexplain them, as I do not wish to search through 200 pages to find if you already did. The problem, which I'm sure you've heard, is the fact that an intelligent being or force of some kind, designed the universe we are in today. The reason you give, being that the universe is too complicated to have created itself. Then that begs the question, if an intelligent designer has to be there to create anything complicated like our universe, then what led to the manifestation of this intelligent designer.

Mr. andersensrm IF you look at the way I look at things - you'll see what I mean.

You see complexity is just details but the fundamental or encompassing reasons of why I say / believe that life was intelligently designed - is the order and purpose behind it.

In short - behind intelligent design and intelligence in creation is order and purpose.

And this is what most people fail to realized.

That without these two (fundamental) underlying reasons - might as well say that life is the result of evolution.

Using science as a tool to study creation I've come to appreciate and understand the orderliness behind it - from the micro (atom) to the macro (the universe).

Unfortunately, science (amazing as it is) has it's limitations as it cannot provide a satisfactory answer to next question - why life?

But just like any intelligent designer has a purpose in what he/she does - so does the Creator of Life.

So the best person to answer the question is the Creator himself.

And he did provide a very satisfying answer. Sadly some don't want to accept it or don't believed it for whatever reasons.

As for the examples I mentioned:

E=mc2:
Is there order behind this formula? Of course.
What is the reason behind it?

DNA code:
Is there order behind this Code? Of course.
What is the reason behind it?

Life = life:
Is there order behind this fact? Of course.
What is the reason behind it?

As for:

And may you please go on to explain, how this being came into being, without a designer. I think what I'm trying to get to here, is where does it begin? Maybe the universe was created by an intelligent designer, but then how did that designer get there? By rule of association you could say, that if the intelligent designer arose out of "thin air", then so did the universe.

In short your question is - where did God came from?

Like I said - the designer or in this case the Creator knows the answer to this basic question.

His simple answer is "He Always Existed" - None came before Him and none came after Him. That's the ONLY answer otherwise you will have an unending creator and that is not the case - for there's only ONE Creator - God.

Some can't accept this concept - it bothers them, yet like I said before they are not bothered by concepts such as infinity or an infinite space or an invisible force.

That is there are many things in the universe that we don't fully understand with our current knowledge but we accept them and are not bothered by them.

So why does an Always Existing Intelligent Entity bothers you?

Think of this too:

E=mc2 - where is the Energy coming from?
Is Energy infinite? Always existing?
What is Energy?

The DNA - where did the information came from?

Bottom line - if there's no Creator of life then the only alternative is to believe that nothing created life, thus life has no real order and purpose but only what we make it to be.

And I think that's where you're at (but I hope not).

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by MrXYZ
Until you can prove that life is not a product of intelligent design then you're argument is just that - nonsense.

Nope. Until YOU can prove that life IS a product of intelligent design, your argument is nonsense. Can you prove that unicorns do not exist?

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Somehow my last reply got nixed. I will say this as an undeniable statement that has beed proved 100% and cannot be dispoven because we use it every day in developing Drought Resistant crops or Geneticly altered Vaccines for the sick. EVOLUTION is UNDENIABLE.

To me this simply means that we're technologically advancing - but if this is evolution to you - hey more power to you.

If you want to say there is a GOD and this GOD used the process of EVOLUTION to create not only Life but EVOLUTION applies to the development of the Universe or Multiverse itself....then fine. I have no problem with that.

I have a problem with it though because the two concept can't be mixed. They invalidate each other.

Thus if you say - "GOD used the process of EVOLUTION ", the Scriptures clearly states that:

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." -- Gen 1:1 NKJV

And that:

Mat 19:1 ASV - "And it came to pass when Jesus had finished these words, he departed from Galilee, and came into the borders of Judaea beyond the Jordan;"

Mat 19:4 ASV - "And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made [them] from the beginning made them male and female,".


So it's either - we're created or we're a product of evolution.

If we were product of evolution - what does Jesus' death mean then for us?

or for that matter if you say - "GOD used the process of EVOLUTION ", why did Jesus die for mankind then?

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

So the two can't be mixed.

When you quote scripures you are quoting the words of a MAN who wrote them down...not a GOD. If there is a GOD...it will be nothing like any of you or I can immagine...and a GOD certainly will not have gender! LOL!
Split Infinity

reply to post by edmc^2


Actually I do have problems with infinity, which is also why I have the problem of anything being around for eternity in both directions. From what I understand your logic is very sound, however, since all our knowledge tells us that order and purpose cannot arise without intelligence, I would beg to differ. Why can't it? And maybe you should ask yourself why you can't accept this possibility. The fact is I don't know how life came about, but I believe it not to be the work of a so called "creator", but I can accept the possibility that I am wrong. That doesn't mean I will just give up, everything in me tells me, that no such creator exists, or it exists in a way we cannot yet understand. The thing that all life possesses that we know so little about is the conscious. Maybe we are confusing our conscious as the separate being we know of as god the creator, when in fact it is all of us that make "him" up. The one thing I cannot accept is the concept of an intelligent being, just being around forever.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Like I said - the two concept can't be mixed ESpecially if you don't accept and believe that the Bible is of Divine Origin - the written word of the Creator.

(penned by men of course - inspired of God).

But Science and Creation can work side by side because science shows you the order/organization and the Scriptures shows you the purpose.

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

Like I said - the two concept can't be mixed ESpecially if you don't accept and believe that the Bible is of Divine Origin - the written word of the Creator.

(penned by men of course - inspired of God).

But Science and Creation can work side by side because science shows you the order/organization and the Scriptures shows you the purpose.

As I have said before...there is no conflict with a persons belief in some kind of GOD...whatever that may be....and Evolution. The conflict occurs when people start taking ancient religious text as verbatum and reality.

The Bible is incomplete and there are many Gospels left out by the Church on purpose because they are conflicting. There are also many mistranslations in the Bible as I have pointed out before...one major one in particular is MOSES NEVER PARTED THE RED SEA. The actual translationis...and the Vatican admits this...Moses crossed the REED SEA....a Tidal Marshy area near the Med where they crossed at low tide....the Egyptians followed and the tide came back in swamping their Chariots. But there never was a Parting of the Red Sea by Moses.

The church has left this lie to continue as it has been taught like this for so long that they feel it would be destructive to the Faith...yet they admit it is a MISTRANSLATION. Further proof of this was found on archeological digs in this area as the warers path has changed over the Millenia and artifacts of both Egyptian and Hebrew have been found here.

This is but ONE MISTRANSLATION! If you feel you are strong enough of Faith...i suggest to you to seek the truth....the Bible has Matthew, Mark, Luke and John's Gospels....but in reality there are more....Judas, Mary....etc. I will leave it to whoever wants to seek the truth to find this out for themselves...the church will admit to it....so you will have undeniable truth of what I speak of. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

As I have said before...there is no conflict with a persons belief in some kind of GOD...whatever that may be....and Evolution. The conflict occurs when people start taking ancient religious text as verbatum and reality.

In that case explain to me what did Jesus mean when he said:

Mat 19:4 ASV - "And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made [them] from the beginning made them male and female,".

Quoting Genesis:

Gen 1:27 ASV - And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 1:28 ASV - And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

???

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

As I have said before...there is no conflict with a persons belief in some kind of GOD...whatever that may be....and Evolution. The conflict occurs when people start taking ancient religious text as verbatum and reality.

In that case explain to me what did Jesus mean when he said:

Mat 19:4 ASV - "And he answered and said, Have ye not read, that he who made [them] from the beginning made them male and female,".

Quoting Genesis:

Gen 1:27 ASV - And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 1:28 ASV - And God blessed them: and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

???

You are confusing my post of a belief in a GOD with belief in Religion. I do not believe in Religion. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

You are confusing my post of a belief in a GOD with belief in Religion. I do not believe in Religion. Split Infinity

So I take it then that the "GOD" you're talking about is NOT the God mentioned in the Bible namely:

Gen 1:1 ASV - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Correct?

So where do you based you're belief from?

That is:

As I have said before...there is no conflict with a persons belief in some kind of GOD...whatever that may be....and Evolution.

Because to me - it's a total contradiction - unless the "GOD" you believe in is not that All Wise and All Powerful - let alone All Loving.

Otherwise why use evolution - a very imperfect process?

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

You are confusing my post of a belief in a GOD with belief in Religion. I do not believe in Religion. Split Infinity

So I take it then that the "GOD" you're talking about is NOT the God mentioned in the Bible namely:

Gen 1:1 ASV - "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

Correct?

So where do you based you're belief from?

That is:

As I have said before...there is no conflict with a persons belief in some kind of GOD...whatever that may be....and Evolution.

Because to me - it's a total contradiction - unless the "GOD" you believe in is not that All Wise and All Powerful - let alone All Loving.

Otherwise why use evolution - a very imperfect process?

Because of my...sometimes job...I am exposed to things that have changed the way I used to think of the Universe or Multiverse. These are not things I can talk about directly other to say that very few people can handle learning some of these relities and for some...it will change a perfectly functional team member into a self doubting lump on a log.

However...this same exposure as well as a few personal experiences have also brought me to a truth that I would rather never have found out about.

I wish things were as simple as you are describing them or even the way the Bible or any other religious Text...I am very fond of Buddhism as far as their respect for life as I am a concervationist...but I am also a Hunter, Survivalist and trained....well some here know.

There are a few things I can say and one of these things is Human Beings are NOT the only intelligent lifeforms in the Universe or Multiverse. Human Beings are not even the only intelligent lifeforms on Planet Earth so you have to throw away a good portion of the Bible that deals with our existance in a stated form of Grand Importance or even quite possibly the STUPIDEST MAN WRITTEN words in the Bible....GOD created MAN in HIS IMAGE. Talk about something that only a MAN could be so governed by EGO and SELF IMPORTANCE.

I have also experienced some things that have confirmed to me that there is SOMETHING SPIRITUAL in this Universe or Multiverse...whatever that means as I know what I have seen and experienced in this matter but cannot explain it with 100% surity. But this I DO KNOW....Evolution is a fact. It is undeniable and we use it every day and it changes us and everything in the Universe/Multiverse as things progress.

If you want to believe in whatever you believe...that's fine. But I know certain realities and truths and these things did not come out of a book or prayer meeting...they came out and bit me on the ass...HARD! Things that make a person think what is really going on. Split Infinity

reply to post by edmc^2


Let me ask you this. Where is the intelligence in cancer? Where is the intelligence of hiv? Why would any intelligent designer set this crap up? Why would an intelligent designer ensure every human child is born with 3 harmful mutations (THANKS BOB)? What is intelligent about designing us with such flimsy bodies, easy to injury and paralyze. Our eyes are weak, have deteriorating vision and have no protection, plus a direct vulnerability to the brain. Why design creatures that need to sleep? Diseases, genetic disorders, headaches bacterial infections, mental illness, etc etc etc. Many creatures can regenerate lost limbs, but god loves humans so much that he specifically did not give us this ability because he wants amputees to suffer. None of it suggests intelligence. It suggests a sloppy thrown together job. There is absolutely nothing perfect about the 'design' of human beings. Think about it. We reproduce with the same organs we use to excrete waste. Intelligent design? Not a chance. Maybe dumb design, or rushed to get it done design. I could list these things all day.

Originally posted by Barcs
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Let me ask you this. Where is the intelligence in cancer? Where is the intelligence of hiv? Why would any intelligent designer set this crap up? Why would an intelligent designer ensure every human child is born with 3 harmful mutations (THANKS BOB)? What is intelligent about designing us with such flimsy bodies, easy to injury and paralyze. Our eyes are weak, have deteriorating vision and have no protection, plus a direct vulnerability to the brain. Why design creatures that need to sleep? Diseases, genetic disorders, headaches bacterial infections, mental illness, etc etc etc. Many creatures can regenerate lost limbs, but god loves humans so much that he specifically did not give us this ability because he wants amputees to suffer. None of it suggests intelligence. It suggests a sloppy thrown together job. There is absolutely nothing perfect about the 'design' of human beings. Think about it. We reproduce with the same organs we use to excrete waste. Intelligent design? Not a chance. Maybe dumb design, or rushed to get it done design. I could list these things all day.

Of curse if you put it that way - it appears there's no intelligence behind the many wonderful creations of God. But your way of looking at things are superficial - they are only on the surface. Besides your POV is like a person blaming an architect or a builder of a most amazing house in the block that was misused and put to disrepute.
It's comparable to blaming Michael Angelo as the person who vandalized his own paintings.

None of these people were responsible for how their masterpieces were used or misused. But although their works were damaged - some badly, all is not lost for there's a way to repair them. Just like the abandoned house can be brought back to it's former condition or even better or a masterpiece painting can be repaired to it's original condition. It's the same thing with the Creator of the human body or for that matter all living things. God has the full knowledge, the will, the ability and power to repair what was damaged!

Let's take a look again at the amazing cell - scientists had long known that the cell has the ability to heal itself. They say that under normal conditions this self healing process should continue on and on even forever. But after 60 replication the cell starts to age then die. They discovered that the "telomeres" at the end of each of the chromosomes starts shortening every-time it replicates itself - then eventually unable to hold itself together - the result aging. And as we start aging our body organs start to breakdown, mutations starts to occur as the cell is unable to cope with aging process - thus aging then sickness then death comes. Some of these mutant genes gets passed on to the next generation until it finally dies off or continue living (cancer cells).

But what if we find a way to stop the shortening of the telomeres? What if if we find a way to stop the aging process?

Notice how Dr. Michio Kaku expalins it:





Unfortunately we don't have the knowledge or the ability to achieve this "dream" but the Creator of Life does.

And as promise he said he will - in due time - but only for those who are willing to accept his offer of everlasting life.

Question though is - what happened to the cell? Why does the telomeres starts age after 60 replication?

Did the Creator of the cell intended it to be that way? Was he to be blamed?

Again going back to the architect/painter - they are not be blamed for what happened to their masterpieces as much as Jehovah God can't be blamed for what humans did to themselves and their environments.

(Galatians 6:7) "Do not be misled: God is not one to be mocked. For whatever a man is sowing, this he will also reap;"

(Romans 5:12) 12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . ."

(Romans 6:23) . . .For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

Nope - in fact like I said, as promised:

(John 3:16)  “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

“And all the crowd were seeking to touch him, because power was going out of him and healing them all.” (Luke 6:19)


(Isaiah 33:24) "And no resident will say: “I am sick.” The people that are dwelling in [the land] will be those pardoned for their error."


Of course since you don't believe these promises thus to you the life that we have now is all the life there is.

Originally posted by edmc^2
Of curse if you put it that way - it appears there's no intelligence behind the many wonderful creations of God.

Yes the wonderful creations of god such as cancer, aids, mental illness, many of these we have no control over.

But your way of looking at things are superficial - they are only on the surface.

I apologize if I've failed to see the inner beauty of aids and cancer. Could you explain that to me?

Besides your POV is like a person blaming an architect or a builder of a most amazing house in the block that was misused and put to disrepute.
It's comparable to blaming Michael Angelo as the person who vandalized his own paintings.

No it's not, because I'm not blaming god. I'm stating the obvious, which is that if god exists, he is not intelligent or all powerful. Simple as. Humans didn't create diseases, many of which kill kids before puberty with little to nothing they can do to avoid it. How could that be the work of a loving creator? Sorry I just don't buy it. God created a hell specifically to torture people for eternity and then failed to mention it to anybody beside some shlep 2000 years ago writing a story. Not loving, not intelligent.

God has the full knowledge, the will, the ability and power to repair what was damaged!

Then why hasn't he used it in 2000+ years? A god or creator could very easily end all religious wars in the world with minimal effort, yet he does nothing and expects people to figure it out on their own. Intelligence? Ha. The bible makes him sound like an ego maniac who cares more worship than anything else. No loving god would ever demand worship. He doesn't even interact with the society he allegedly created. Why?

When you take two mirrors and put them in front of each other, you get an illusion of endless mirrors that go on for infinity. This is the illusion of eternal energy. We live inside of the mirror, and to us energy is neither created nor destroyed, from this illusion we attempt to explain the existence of everything. We fail to take into account though that it is just an illusion. Really there is a whole other reason for why the endless mirrors, it is because two mirrors are facing each other, and there was a process to create those mirrors. So although all our measurements show that time, space, and energy are infinite, when in fact they are not.

reply to post by Atzil321


AGREED! Although" mythological" maybe giving up too much, as it could be placed in the realm of possible. I have no need of gods, angels or demons to understand the difference between right or wrong. But I understand as well that some may need a supernatural cohesive to guide them on the right path. More power to them!

reply to post by Barcs


You may as well give up. I was once a religious fanatic until I was hit with a reality shock. The brain washing is the most intense of any you will find and rooted so far back that it's unreal. Everything about religion is based on the fact that if you even come near questioning it in your own mind, your a goner! The object is to keep you from intellectual discovery or growth period.

reply to post by Barcs

Yes the wonderful creations of god such as cancer, aids, mental illness, many of these we have no control over.

you're the one calling these maladies wonderful creations of God - not me.

But as the scriptures has stated, it's mankind who did this to themselves - or to be exact the first humans did this to themselves and passed it on to their offspring - us.

(Romans 5:12) 12 "That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned. . ."

Due to their arrogance, they pulled away from the very source of life - God, hence they became imperfect - they became mutants. From then on all are dying.

So no - Jehovah God is NOT responsible for what happened to man.

But to repeat what God has done for mankind:

(John 3:16) “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

No it's not, because I'm not blaming god. I'm stating the obvious, which is that if god exists, he is not intelligent or all powerful. Simple as. Humans didn't create diseases, many of which kill kids before puberty with little to nothing they can do to avoid it. How could that be the work of a loving creator?

In due time - in due time, our cells will be restored back to perfection not corruption - notice:

"the creation looks forward to the day when it will join God's children in glorious freedom from death and decay." - (Rom 8:21 NLT)

"For we know that all creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time." - (Rom 8:22 NLT)

Sorry I just don't buy it. God created a hell specifically to torture people for eternity and then failed to mention it to anybody beside some shlep 2000 years ago writing a story. Not loving, not intelligent.

And who told you that there's such a place? If you believe this lie then too bad you've been had. You see hell is an invention of religionists to enslave others in fear.

In fact the scriptures said that no such thing even came up in God's heart.

Jer 7:31 KJV - "And they have built the high places of Tophet, which [is] in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded [them] not, neither came it into my heart."

But since this is a doctrinal matter - I'll leave it at that so as not to derail the thread further.

"God has the full knowledge, the will, the ability and power to repair what was damaged!"


Then why hasn't he used it in 2000+ years? A god or creator could very easily end all religious wars in the world with minimal effort, yet he does nothing and expects people to figure it out on their own. Intelligence? Ha. The bible makes him sound like an ego maniac who cares more worship than anything else. No loving god would ever demand worship. He doesn't even interact with the society he allegedly created. Why?

Maybe he's waiting for you to change your mind.

In fact the scriptures said:

“Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9)

Jhn 3:17 NKJV - "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.


As for

"god would ever demand worship"

- again who told you that? Why in the world would he demand that?

The creator of the universe and all the things in it demand to be worship? As if we have something that we can give back to him? That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Only people who doesn't know God would believe and say such a thing.

Again the scriptures:

“After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”” (Revelation 7:9, 10)


Not out of compulsion but out of appreciation people will willingly offer themselves to God.

Mic 4:2 ASV - And many nations shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths. For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem;

So as the scripture had said - in due time Jehovah God will restore everything back to it's original condition!

Question is - will you be there? I hope so.

Originally posted by edmc^2
you're the one calling these maladies wonderful creations of God - not me.

They are creations of god, according to the bible. You believe in the all powerful, all knowing god of the bible, who created everything. If god is all knowing, he created the earth and people on it, knowing full well what would happen. He created humans knowing he'd have to murder them all in a flood, and knowing that they would disobey him and be punished for eternity. Instead of tweaking his design, he lets it go forward anyway. Not intelligent. Not loving. Not all powerful.

But as the scriptures has stated, it's mankind who did this to themselves - or to be exact the first humans did this to themselves and passed it on to their offspring - us.

If god created everything and is all knowing, then mankind did NOT do it to themselves. The concept of original sin is a joke, and shows that god is not loving and loves holding grudges. One person disobeying him condemns an entire species to death and disease? God made the choice to punish humans like that. They didn't do it to themselves. That's like me building an ant farm and putting poison at the end of one of the tunnels, then when they start dying, claiming they did it to themselves. God created the devil. God created hell. God is all powerful, and could instantly end it, but he does not. He is not loving.

And who told you that there's such a place? If you believe this lie then too bad you've been had. You see hell is an invention of religionists to enslave others in fear.

Gee, I dunno, it only is one of the main foundations of the bible and all judeo-christian belief systems. So you are telling me that you don't believe in hell even though you take the bible as literal truth?

As for

"god would ever demand worship"

- again who told you that? Why in the world would he demand that?

Um, we're talking about the god of the bible right? The same guy who made people sacrifice animals to him, and follow his every command, and told people how to live and to pray, keep holy the sabbath day and everything else. He told people to build places of worship in many cases, and condoned going to temple to worship him once a week.

The creator of the universe and all the things in it demand to be worship? As if we have something that we can give back to him? That's the most ridiculous statement I've heard. Only people who doesn't know God would believe and say such a thing.

I don't know god. Maybe you can introduce me to him the next time he's around. Oh wait, he's never around and doesn't interact with the population besides in ancient texts. In fact, nobody's EVER seen him and no evidence even suggests his existence. Worshiping god is a one way deal. You pray and ask and talk and worship, but in reality he doesn't talk back, he doesn't even answer you when you speak to him even though he's all powerful and only answers prayers when in his best interest. Normally when people talk about imaginary friends, it means they have some kind of mental illness, but for some reason this is encouraged when it comes to religion.

I'm just dealing with the philosophy right now, because the science has been done to death and we already know who the science is in favor of.