Jesus was a witch

This is one of the stranger threads I've seen, although, granted, I don't spend much time in the grey area or hoaxes. Even the OWS people make a little bit more sense than this. I know it's a strong criticism, and I mean no offense, but the logic here is abysmal.

Calling Jesus at most a good man or guide or magician can only be maintained if you ignore His New Testament teachings. Good teachers and guides don't intentionally leave their students with false conclusions. Jesus' followers were convinced that He was the Savior, the one Son of God. He left them with that belief, encouraged it, in fact. No, merely a good teacher or guide wouldn't do that.

If you define magic as any and all supernatural activity brought about by a person, then you're begging the question. You're assuming what you're trying to prove. In this thread, and in Christianity, the concept that the Son of God was just a witch, is laughed at and rightly so. Look at His claims. No witchcraft there. Look at Simon who tried to buy the Holy Spirit, so he could do miracles too. That was condemned. There is a discussion of this in the thread, I don't want to get too heated.

Before we can look at evidence to support the logical argument, such an argument has to be presented first. It hasn't been.

I am often confused and wrong, but it will take some effort to convince me that that's the case here. If you'd like me to elaborate I will, but there are better debaters here than I am.

Originally posted by charles1952
Calling Jesus at most a good man or guide or magician can only be maintained if you ignore His New Testament teachings. Good teachers and guides don't intentionally leave their students with false conclusions. Jesus' followers were convinced that He was the Savior, the one Son of God. He left them with that belief, encouraged it, in fact. No, merely a good teacher or guide wouldn't do that.

Christ IS the savior my friend. Not because of his flesh, but because of the spirit of the teachings that flesh left behind. It is not Christ's fault that his followers marvel at the man and not the message. The message is just so powerful that the man seems more than human.

It isn't that Christ was more than human. It is that being human is more divine than we give it credit for. Christ gave that credit to being human. He didn't hang out with the self righteous who raged against the natural desires and temptations of being human, he hung out with those who needed him. Those who were the dregs of society. Those who had forgotten how divine we are. He loved them as though they were perfect. They were perfect in his eyes, for he knew they were created by the same hands as he. If we all thought this way and walked in Christ's shoes, he will save the world.

It is by living by his example. It is simple.

Love one another.

Was he a witch? He was a greater sorcerer than Solomon.

Anyone who understands the true power of unconditional love commands both angels and demons.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by jheated5
Technically he'd be a Warlock.....

actually my friend a warlock is nothing more than an oath breaker (ie. Obama and congress in general)

Shaade

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by darkredfish

 

Yup I bet if Jesus came back in the 1600's no one would have known about it cos they woulda burned him.
Wow interesting thought maybe he has been back many times but his own Religion killed him for being a witch

I agree a lot of the things he did could be seen as witchcraft.

edit on 31-10-2011 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Actually due to the clear male dominance of the christian church, if men were confronted as acting witch-like or defending a suspected witch during the Burning Times, he would most likely be deemed as being "bewitched" rather than as an actual witch. Women were the ones that are usually considered by the church as being witches.

reply to post by Shaade


Their favorite game was:

Person one: Person twos a witch!!!
Person two: Person three made me do it!!
Person three: It was person fours fault!!

Ect, ect.

reply to post by kinglizard


No jesus wasn't an advancement to wicca becauce 'wicca' wasn't invented til gardner perverted crowley who perverted levi in the last 100 years,.

jesus was a pagan, we're all pagans.

Originally posted by darkredfish

Originally posted by jheated5
Technically he'd be a Warlock.....

Technicaly, there is no , worlock, sorcerer, sorceress, ect because witch is a word for anyone who practices magic no matter what sex.

edit on 31-10-2011 by darkredfish because: (no reason given)

Guess I'm a witch then...seriously

Have we not moved past calling people witches? The only reason they labeled people witches was to cast anyone who conducted activities that mildly differed from the churches focus in a negative light, simple.

reply to post by darkredfish


Jesus is not a witch and he did not practice witchcraft concocting magic potions and invoking magical words to heal the sick and turn water into wine. He is a Prophet of God who is sent with miracles and power to heal the sick. Jesus was given this power as a sign from God because in his time there were a lot of medical practitioners, and Jesus without medical training whatsoever healed the leper, the blind and the lame, all in the name of God. God gave him this power so that the people may know that he is one sent by God and they should follow him.

In the time of the Prophet Moses there are a lot of magicians and so God gave him powers that no magician can duplicate such as dividing the sea, turning water into blood etc. And God gave him this power so that people may know that he is sent by God and so they will follow him.

King Solomon did not practice witchcraft, the angels Harut and Marut taught witchcraft to the people but they warned them that it is only for a trial for them and all such who practice witcraft will have no portion in the Hereafter except the Hell-fire.

~~ so the OP Jesus is a witch? No!

If Jesus was a witch then why i can't see anyother witches, is he was the only witch in the world ?! and thats not called magic it is something given from God ^^
God's power

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by darkredfish

 

In the time of the Prophet Moses there are a lot of magicians and so God gave him powers that no magician can duplicate such as dividing the sea, turning water into blood etc.

Exactly whose blood was it? If it were blood then it had to come from thousands of people, each with their own individual DNA and other attributes.

It's amazing how "people" would and did accuse Jesus of witchcraft. Being spiritual with certain gifts has done the exact same thing to me. The word "witch" is not a nice name to be called. However I would rather be called that than a christian because it was them who threw the accusations at someone they did not understand. The same goes for today as I am sort of telling a story about what happened to me when I went to church years ago. Spiritual gifts are not understood by many brainwashed and ignorant people. It makes people fear because they do not understand. Jesus was a great man who walked the earth and taught us that WE ARE mystical spiritual beings. I do not believe a lot of the bible because I think that the god of the old testament was NOT Jesus' god or father. There's no way.
Jesus was accused of witchcraft. He would be accused of it today, as the churches do not want you to be spiritual, just follow them blindly and give them your money.

I would rather say he was a mage as he was visited by three on His birth night...

Originally posted by micmerci
In addition, there is no evidence that Jesus participated in any initiation rites, cast spells, believed in relativism (he spoke of truth and of being "the truth" John 14:6), believed in, or called upon the goddess (He called God "Father"), believed in reincarnation, or karma (he taught resurrection), believed that nature was divine (He taught that the world was created), or believed in the concept of polytheism (He was a strict Jewish monotheist).

Wrong! His babtism was an initiation rite. Also, afterwords he was led by the wind into the dessert, on a vision quest, where he did a spiritual ritual to the 4 winds, in order to master his ability. Satan did not tempt Jesus in any way, he helped him to gather his strength and understand his shamanic mystiical powers.

Jesus DID cast a spell upon a fig tree, because he was angry that it bore no fruit when he was hungry.

Jesus taught reincarnation , which many jews believed in. He said that John the Babtist was Elija. He taught that there is no death because of reincantation. no resurrection. Resurrection is a made up thing by the catholic church. I didn't happen.

Thanks for this thread Darkredfish! I thought about starting a thread with the same title this weekend, but lacked your courage. Stars and flags for you!

well this post helped me in a way in that i feel demons either hear or listen to me. on one occasion after the other things i say happen. for example i was at work one day and found out they did something bad to someone. i told a fellow employee that the place should be destroyed 12 hours later a bolt of lighting or something of that nature a bolt of lightning struck blew up the transformer and split a 100 year old oak tree in 2 ight by the front door of the building. on a smaller scale a plant in my living room was whithering i looked over at my friend and told him that i need to water the plant and a track light 15 feet high on my vaulted ceiling turned from shining directly on the fireplace turned and shined directly on the whithering plant. these are 2 instances where i can produce eye whitness and ive had episode after episode like this my whole life to the point it scares me so i just try to ignore them and keep on moving through life the best way i can. oddly enough other things are horrid in my life im 45 years old and get carded to get into clubs and things still and people will come up to me and tell me that im only 22 and will swear up and down im lying about my age. just weird things i felt i should mention is all.

reply to post by darkredfish


One of things that really bothers me about Christianity is when Christians say that Jesus didn't teach "The Way," he was the way!

This is the most absurd thinking, and totally stinks of the evil lies and black magic, which is the Catholic Church. I reject the fact that his teachings and his life were meaningless and his death means everything. In fact every human that ever lived died. There is nothing nobel or special in death, its a guarantee.

They vilify nature by teaching that Mary didn't have sex in order to concieve him and that women are loathsome sinners because of this natural process of procreation. Jesus was too holy for that! A mother and a lover's instincts are dispicable and labeled as witchcraft. Women are the reason Jesus had to come in the first place, because they were so weak and abhorant as to have defiled all of humanity. Who thinks like this?

They keep his wrecked and dead body on the cross and eat his body and drink his blood! It is a canabalistic ritual that denies reincarnation and the magical rituals that he taught us. They employed that crook and liar Saul, changed his name to Paul and took is rediculous rants and called them gospel to dispell the true teachings of Jesus.

I think it is sad that threads are created to divide people even more. That is the intent right? I mean....to read all the posts and watch everyone argue as if they KNOW anything.

If you want to compare apples to apples, do it. One can say Jesus was not born of a virgin and I can say..neither was Buddha. Jesus for all we know could be an incarnate of Buddha. Check into the parallels if you haven't done it already. Is this the effect of choosing knowledge? I can acknowledge this Knowledge stuff is not only twisted but there lies many truths with perception. No one really knows and why does anybody really care.

There was much control back in the day and to be called a "witch" because of a difference in said "witch" is about as stupid to me now as it was in school when I learned about "witch's".

My Grandmother puts a name on paper and places it in the freezer if someone does her/family wrong. She must be a witch, huh? Get over the witch stuff already.....its lame. Better yet...lets all label every soul to which they are and divide us even more. I bet there is spell for each label.

I really must look at the intentions of this thread as possibly a spell.

I hope I did not offend anyone but some threads deserve what they give. Nonsense. Op if you want to call me a witch, please do it privately as your intention to call me a witch does us both more harm than good. Intent on this thread becoming a war zone was implied in your OP was it not? You knew it would cause more harm than good but you posted it anyway. We could all do this all day long but what kind of world would that create? More division?

reply to post by darkredfish

Jesus, the person that all christians follow, was nothing more than a witch.

I understand what you are saying and agree, although I feel your semantics leaves a little to be desired.

First let me say that after my research I believe that Religion, Metaphysics, Science and Magic are all parts of the same whole, or they will be once we understand them well enough to see that. And once we see that these are all parts of the same whole thing, we will finally understand...

Having said that I would like to adjust your statement to say that Jesus was not a witch, and did not practice magic since magic and witchcraft come with rituals which I believe is a crutch which is not necessary. I believe that what Jesus used was a purer form of metaphysics, and the same one I use, although with much, much smaller results.

In the Bible Jesus is not mentioned between his 13th and 30th year of life. Ever wonder about that? I did. And I found that there is some circumstantial evidence that Jesus went to the Far East and Egypt to study during those years. Indeed their are writings of an Esau - supposedly Jesus' real name - who came to India and studied and taught there.

It should also be remembered that Jesus' family were members of the Essenes, a Christian mystery school that taught a more metaphysical approach to Christianity than we have now, one that included the same influences Jesus would have been journeying to learn. It should also be mentioned that Mary Magdalen, who is still considered as Jesus' wife by many in the Languedoc area of France today, was said to be a priestess from a Nubian mystery school unrelated to the Judeo-Christian faiths.

In short I believe that Jesus was not here to die on the cross for our sins, but was rather here to show us what our potentialities are. An example as to what we all can ultimately become. Taking it further, I believe that we are locked in this reincarnative cycle until we become so enlightened.

Many will say that I am blaspheming here because I am saying that we each are God. No!

What I am saying is what the Upanishads in effect says, and that is that we all have a spark of God inside each of us, and that we should strive to listen to that small still voice which comes from inside us. Our journey - or life - then is an experiential journey whose only destination is the returning to our source, once we have learned the things and experienced the things which we need to experience.

So, by your label, under my belief system (Buddhist/Taoist roughly) we would all be witches. I prefer to think that we still don't have it right yet. And although we have always believed we have everthin' figgered out" we always find that we really had it awfully wrong. I believe that once we discover that we are all divine beings trapped on this mortal plain - which all religions do agree on - and all seeking to return home, labels such as magician, witch, religion, science and metaphysics will all vanish into one label; "us"

We are still so, so primitive... Want proof? Look inside a Siemens Fiber Optic Power Amplifier. When I did the first time it put a lot of things in place for me. It is actually just a bunch of fiber optic cable wrapped around a spool inside a huge pretty and expensive looking box, and a tricky one to set up as well. Anyone else notice any similarities to Religion? Or Science? Or any other of these fractional attempts to grasp the biggest and most important of issues in our lives, bar none?

But do we deal with this experiential journey on a daily basis? No, most of us put this subject on the back burner and deal with taking out the garbage, paying the mortgage, having a beer, talking about the game last night, or trading in that old SUV for the nice new one.

Kinda puts everything in a new perspective, huh?

reply to post by Ittabena


I hope people will read your insightful post, take it in and research for them selves. I am lacking patience this morning and so therefore could not have explained my thoughts as you just did and I appreciate the thought out post and trying to explain what we all can be and or what we all are and what Jesus taught. Many angles are had but when intentions begin to divide is when my patience lacks and I become really sad. So....thank you.

I also want to add that my son is only 14 and he realized where Jesus was during those years before I did. We both sought out to make the discovery first and he won.

Originally posted by darkredfish
Jesus, the person that all christians follow, was nothing more than a witch.

I realize that this may offend some, and I have no greater desire than to limit that, but I feel it must be said to disillusion the people who are following a ministry of self hate.

Many people have been clouded by the idea the jesus was the son of god, when actually he was nothing more than an extremely powerful magician, much like moses (hydromancy) and solomon (could control demons).

Why would I say this?

The bible gives many instances where jesus uses magic to get what he wants and to help other people.

The ressurection of Lazerath
The turning of water to wine
The curing of lepers
The curing of blindness
The multiplication of the bread and fish

All of these where done by a invokation of devine power, AKA: Magic.

I feel it is important because many christian ministries HATE wiccans and witchcraft, when in fact what they practice is nothing but a glorified form of it.

Think about church rituals:
Turning wine and bread to blood and body - Not usually literally, but in several cases we have seen the "Bleeding eucharist" syndrome in which the transfiguration is actually completed rather than only symbologicly completed.
Incsnese and candles - Both ancient wiccan symbols.
Bleeding statues - Not a church ritual, but a sign that an otherworldy presence is in the church as mary (in most cases) has been summoned to the area where the statue is bleeding. Also many cases of rose scents.
Baptism - Clensing rituals are SUPERCOMMON in wicca, and the cleansing of sin via water is not uncommon either.

You see how these are still witchcraft?

NOW: Witchcraft DOES NOT MEAN bad or evil. I am not calling jesus a devil worshipper or a demoncommunicater, I am simply stating the truth hidden in plain sight, what everyone sees but nobody SEES.

NOTE: DO NOT FLAME IN THIS THREAD. THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR RELIGOUS BASHING AND I WILL ALERT MODERATORS IF ANYTHING OF THE SORT HAPPENS. I WANT TO DISCUSS THIS POSSIBLITY IN A CIVILIZED MANNER.

Feel free to give me stars if you agree

*starbaiting ftw*

edit on 31-10-2011 by darkredfish because: (no reason given)

That is not magic, its called miracles and to date not one person who wasn't filled with the Holy Spirit has been able to raise the dead, or heal the blind and deaf or even resurrect his own body. Have you known of any sorcerers who could raise themselves from the dead and be completely healed? No you do not. Magic is what witches who serve demons do and not a one of them is able to raise the dead or even heal.

You should stop playing those dungeons and dragons games, they will rot your brain. By the way you have commited blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and there can be no forgiveness for that not in this life or the next. Don;t know what that means? Look it up and see the penalty youre going to pay.

reply to post by charles1952

Calling Jesus at most a good man or guide or magician can only be maintained if you ignore His New Testament teachings. Good teachers and guides don't intentionally leave their students with false conclusions. Jesus' followers were convinced that He was the Savior, the one Son of God. He left them with that belief, encouraged it, in fact. No, merely a good teacher or guide wouldn't do that.

Actually, you cannot trust that Jesus message and the New Testament are in agreement at all. This is a huge leap of faith after reading about the Council of Nicaea and the Ecumenical Councils that followed it, and the extermination of opposing beliefs and their literatures/scriptures. It is admitted that much of Jesus teachings to the Apostles were not revealed to the public. Why? Was that an alibi created and attributed to Jesus to cover them for not revealing these hidden teachings of Jesus? I don't know, but I wonder.

If you read some of the scriptures that the Catholic Church discarded in creating the canonized Bible;

apocrypha.org...

you will start to get a little different view of Jesus. A view that he was indeed a man, but a man who was fully developed at a young age. He makes human mistakes and has human feelings, he was not some Spock like creature as the Catholics have attempted to paint him.

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. ~ Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

nobeliefs.com...

I think that is good advice, because nothing is as it seems.