OWS, Stay on the Street, going home is a trap.

reply to post by kellerphoenix


So for all the people whom have massive debt in student loans, went to university, in hopes that they would have a good future, and are now working at Mc.Donalds or driving a cab around... Have no reason to be pissed off?

To assume that these people are "lazy" and not even attempting to find work is ludicrous.

History is once again coming back around after finishing a 360, and with out fail, repeating it's self.
It's an old saying, but if we continue to ignore our past, we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes..

Hopefully this time around, with the power of the internet and the global awakening, and unity of consciousnesses, we the people will not fall for the same tricks set up by the elite...

There is no compromising with these sociopaths.
Either we tear them down from the top pedestal, or we continue to drown.

Originally posted by Ilyich
You really are an idiot aren't you.

Strike one for the OWS movement. Name calling is never the answer.

I just like you find the Eastern Communist nightmares just that, a nightmare. How ever true communism would be a beautiful thing.

Odd that many in favor of the OWS movement vehemently claim that this movement is about no such thing. Yet, here is an OWS supporter clearly supportive of communism.

How ever, there would have to be absolutely no money or corruption for it to work. If everyone actually did their share, and no one person was in charge of who got what it could be a beautiful thing, but that's not what this protest is about. Real socialism, communism exists in heaven. That's why it's such a wonderful place.

Dude, you lost me...bad. Soooo, OWS is not about socialism despite the fact that real communism and socialism exists in heaven? And that's why heaven is such a lovely place? Well, I'd like to know precisely why you, an avid supporter of communism and socialism, are drawn to the OWS movement. Give me 3 reasons for your being there that aren't rooted in a communistic or socialistic ideology. And give me 3 goals that you would like to see this movement achieve that aren't based upon communism or socialism.

reply to post by nightbringr


You totally missed my point.

reply to post by kellerphoenix


What does Michael Moore have to do with this discussion? If you want to talk about him, do a search......there is an OWS-MM thread already in play.

I just have to laugh at the hypocrisy.

I just have to laugh because you didn't comment on anything I said. You just said. "Oh ya!! Well, Michael Moore!"

That is what you call lazy debating. Maybe I was a bit closer than I thought.

Originally posted by shogu666

Originally posted by mobiusmale

And...in the actual world...yes when businesses start up and grow - they create jobs. Where is it you think jobs come from?
"

Of comes from demand obviously. If no one buys your crap you go broke. Corporations are sitting on the money yet they are not hiring more people , perhaps they buy new equipment and thats it.

Beside earth in not magical tree that creates resources out of thin air. Infinite growth cant be sustained.

Yes if you try to sell things that the public does not want, eventually you will go broke.

I am pretty sure that most Corporations do not sit around with mountains of unapplied cash...because cash itself is not a very profitable asset (especially at today;s interest rates on deposits).

I would have to agree that the fact we now have 7 billion people trying to survive on this planet is a serious and growing problem...there is no way there are enough resources to provide a middle-class lifestyle to so many people - or if it was possible to do so, certainly not for very long.

reply to post by mastahunta


OWS Movement it is time to evolve. The bankers on wall street are laughing at you from their windows, and most of them are in Jersey now anyways after 911. Put your action plan out there and follow it. Act with your votes. Act with your dollars when you have them.

Jobs in America, buy american. Demand American products.
Vote out everyone that is in there and write the new ones your demands. Several posts here on what to say.
Follow November 5th.
Get rid of your credit cards, if you don't have the cash, you don't need it.
Support the 1st and Second amendments, buy a gun and learn how to safely use it, the time may come when you will need too.
Start a business of your own.
Drop the entitlement attitude, no one owes you jack! The only thing you are guaranteed is opportunity, what you do with it is up to you.
I understand and support OWS, Tea Party and most of the "I am Fed up with the current Government" people. We all have to do something, and that means reform.

The Constitution is still valid, our Country is still here and it needs you. We as a People must get rid of those in power that have subverted the American Dream! Of and that Dream is that I can work my ass off and keep what I earn and build a life for my family. It is not a you owe me statement!

Banging on a plastic can isn't going to fix squat! Do something beside loaf in a park. Please.

Let the flaming begin! LOL

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Yes if you try to sell things that the public does not want, eventually you will go broke.

No you have it backwards. There is plenty of things people would like to buy that making them would create jobs , but people dont have money . They have to spend them on others necessities like food and cloths.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
I am pretty sure that most Corporations do not sit around with mountains of unapplied cash...because cash itself is not a very profitable asset (especially at today;s interest rates on deposits).

What are you using to support such an assumption ? Crystal ball ?? Just take a look at record profits , and no new jobs created that should says it all.
www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by mobiusmale
I would have to agree that the fact we now have 7 billion people trying to survive on this planet is a serious and growing problem...there is no way there are enough resources to provide a middle-class lifestyle to so many people - or if it was possible to do so, certainly not for very long.

There are, but capitalism (or i could say, profit mechanism of production) is the most wasteful system ever !!!! It is anti-economy in fact.

Originally posted by SalientSkivvy
reply to post by kellerphoenix

 

So for all the people whom have massive debt in student loans, went to university, in hopes that they would have a good future, and are now working at Mc.Donalds or driving a cab around... Have no reason to be pissed off?

To assume that these people are "lazy" and not even attempting to find work is ludicrous.

Yeah, I would be unhappy too I suppose. But, unfortunately, in a free market economy you need to try to match your training choices to the likely employment prospects when you graduate. If you sign on for a Degree in something for which there is no (or little) demand...well, guess what?

Young students, and their parents, need to spend a little time investigating the job market projections (for a few years into the future) before jumping into any study stream.

History is once again coming back around after finishing a 360, and with out fail, repeating it's self.
It's an old saying, but if we continue to ignore our past, we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes..

Hopefully this time around, with the power of the internet and the global awakening, and unity of consciousnesses, we the people will not fall for the same tricks set up by the elite...

Which historical mistakes, and tricks, are you referring to here? And what exactly is "unity of consciousness"?

There is no compromising with these sociopaths.
Either we tear them down from the top pedestal, or we continue to drown.

There are some pretty violent undertones there. Who are these sociopaths who we cannot compromise with?

Originally posted by shogu666
There are, but capitalism (or i could say, profit mechanism of production) is the most wasteful system ever !!!! It is anti-economy in fact.

I wholeheartedly disagree. It is the cronyism that exists between corporations and the government that is responsible for a large portion of this mess. Capitalism, from a small business standpoint, works!

The fact is that a free-market economy, when allowed to run without intrusive government intervention and regulation, is the best economic system hands down.

This is all BS

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

I wholeheartedly disagree. It is the cronyism that exists between corporations and the government that is responsible for a large portion of this mess.

If it weren't for governments we would already drowned in our own waste just like Africa is doing right now because companies dont give a jack about anything.
In fact for some companies creating pollution and waste is a good deal because that creates new opportunity for profit . # this anti-economy.

In order to stay competitive every company is forced into waste because of cost efficiency mechanism
In order to stay competitive company is forced into planned obsolescence in order to uphold cyclical profits

It has abosolutly nothing to do with the governments only with reality of the market and who survives on them.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
Capitalism, from a small business standpoint, works!

Not it doesn't !! Small business gets eaten by big.

Bigger companies have more experience, know-how, resources to be more competitive.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
The fact is that a free-market economy, when allowed to run without intrusive government intervention and regulation, is the best economic system hands down.

There was never any free market economy to begin with. Even antic USA was full of government interventions like public works and gov acquiring land for railroad companies.

You are very misinformed.

Originally posted by shogu666
Not it doesn't !! Small business gets eaten by big.

Tell that to Nike, Microsoft, Apple, etc...

reply to post by mobiusmale


Earth to Mobiusmale, you yourself said that there is 15% unemployment. Now you are saying that anybody who needs a job will find one. Lets do this slowly... If all the unemployed people in the US were to look for a job, not all of them could get a job. Are you denying that?

There is no such thing as full employment, certainly if you look at western economies, the only exception has been during large scale wars. That means that the current system does not allow for full employment. What you have done to make yourself feel better about supporting this, is to claim that everybody can get a job. They can't.

Just because you and I have a job does not mean that we can lie to ourselves and others saying that the reason the unemployed can't find work is because of their laziness and not because the system is designed that way.

Businesses create jobs? Tell me this then. How do businesses start up (I'm presuming that the businessman was not on a trust fund) - in most cases they get credit from a bank right? Hmm. Tell me this, what is demand like in the economy like at the moment? Hmm, not good there either. And what happens to other businesses when failing businesses don't pay them which is also common in this recession?

Happy joy, businesses create jobs. The problem is that existing businesses are failing and new start ups are doing even worse. Look at the statistics if you don't believe me.

Yes it is cynical to accuse OWS protestors in that underhand way. What business is it of yours to ask them where their money comes from? You either want to accuse them of being undeserving rich kids, unemployed layabouts, or people that are skipping work?

Am I supposed to childishly ask you why you aren't working right now? Am I supposed to ask you if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth? Please don't answer the question, I'm not interested in dumbing down the arguments

I'm interested in opinions on the topic in hand. I'm glad that you at least recognise that the public should not have had to pay out to the banks. That is something you share in common with OWS.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Originally posted by shogu666

Originally posted by mobiusmale

And...in the actual world...yes when businesses start up and grow - they create jobs. Where is it you think jobs come from?
"

Of comes from demand obviously. If no one buys your crap you go broke. Corporations are sitting on the money yet they are not hiring more people , perhaps they buy new equipment and thats it.

Beside earth in not magical tree that creates resources out of thin air. Infinite growth cant be sustained.

Yes if you try to sell things that the public does not want, eventually you will go broke.

I am pretty sure that most Corporations do not sit around with mountains of unapplied cash...because cash itself is not a very profitable asset (especially at today;s interest rates on deposits).

I would have to agree that the fact we now have 7 billion people trying to survive on this planet is a serious and growing problem...there is no way there are enough resources to provide a middle-class lifestyle to so many people - or if it was possible to do so, certainly not for very long.

So you're one of THOSE people.

Originally posted by freethinker123
I'm interested in opinions on the topic in hand. I'm glad that you at least recognize that the public should not have had to pay out to the banks. That is something you share in common with OWS.

...and the Tea Party, Ron Paul, etc..

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

Originally posted by shogu666
Not it doesn't !! Small business gets eaten by big.

Tell that to Nike, Microsoft, Apple, etc...

edit on 31-10-2011 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)

So your example of two companies that ended up as practically monopolies( not familiar with nike history though) by doing what i pointed out is a example of what exactly ?

Bigger companies have more experience, know-how, resources to be more competitive. Try competing with microsoft or apple on even terms :>.

Laughable.

reply to post by mobiusmale


'I would have to agree that the fact we now have 7 billion people trying to survive on this planet is a serious and growing problem...there is no way there are enough resources to provide a middle-class lifestyle to so many people - or if it was possible to do so, certainly not for very long.'

Now you are talking sense. This is something that most people at OWS would agree with you.
But I would go futher, we are not talking about maintaining a middle class lifestyle, there are millions of people on the planet already living in poverty.

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on how to tackle this problem.

Originally posted by shogu666

Originally posted by Freenrgy2
Tell that to Nike, Microsoft, Apple, etc...

So your example of two companies that ended up as practically monopolies( not familiar with nike history though) by doing what i pointed out is a example of what exactly ?

I listed three companies actually that started as small businesses. They had a product that filled a niche at the right time. From the standpoint of capitalism and small business, I think my examples illustrate my point nicely.

If you want to focus on these entities as corporations, then I will then again refer you back to my point about cronyism between corporations and government.

Originally posted by Freenrgy2

I listed three companies actually that started as small businesses. They had a product that filled a niche at the right time. From the standpoint of capitalism and small business, I think my examples illustrate my point nicely.

So those businesses could flourish because they had no big competitors in their branch which does not disprove my statement that big businesses eat small.
Apply some logic here.

Originally posted by freethinker123
reply to post by mobiusmale

 

'I would have to agree that the fact we now have 7 billion people trying to survive on this planet is a serious and growing problem...there is no way there are enough resources to provide a middle-class lifestyle to so many people - or if it was possible to do so, certainly not for very long.'

Now you are talking sense. This is something that most people at OWS would agree with you.
But I would go futher, we are not talking about maintaining a middle class lifestyle, there are millions of people on the planet already living in poverty.

I'm genuinely interested in your opinion on how to tackle this problem.

Let me answer it somehow.

Whatever we like it or not our consumerist lifestyle is over.
Since we consume more resources on earth then it replenish even basic one like soil water or fishes , whatever it will be WW3 or system change.
One thing for sure free market is not a solution free market doesn't care about anything other than cyclical turnover. Cyclical turnover means constant consumption and ever increasing expansion.
Socialism obviously is not an answer neither.

Application of technology is, but not based on profit manner but based on knowledge and experience. Right now are about 50 years behind of application of our current technological understanding due to profit base mechanism and constant need for jobs.

reply to post by freethinker123


Outer Space to Freethinker...lol.

I did not say that "all" people can get a job when unemployment is at 15% (or 5%), only that "any" person can get one. You might have to work day and night to find one. You might have to take some upgrade training, you might have to move. you might have to do a job you really don't want to do. But any person who really wants to work in this economy will find work.

Businesses start up many different ways. It is actually quite difficult to get a bank loan as a small business start-up, without any other equity. Not all businesses require a lot of start-up capital...but more need "sweat equity".

Anyway...we can fire back and forth all day. Let's instead agree to disagree, shall we?