Qantas grounds entire fleet

Originally posted by rhesusmonkey
Unions are dinosaurs.
They drove Ansett to the wall, killing their members jobs in the process.
Now it is the turn of Qantas.

sure you can look at it that way
but they are only doing what theyre ment for. the day corporations start being fair is the day stuff like this wont happen
so who is the cause?
the people acting or the people re-acting?

Originally posted by haveblue

Originally posted by OzTruth
There is no hidden agenda here just greedy workers...

Does that include Alan Joyce's 71 percent pay increase from 3 million to 5 million?

What CEO doesn't get millions of dollars??

Anyone that thinks a $530 million dollar profit for an airline is great should go back to school the operating cost of an international airline alone run into the billions... So the boss gets less than 1% of the net profit. That's pretty reasonable for a CEO these days and maybe he should be getting paid more, having to put his balls on the line like this. If you read into it, they have been given what they asked for... The other particulars are so extreme that the profit of the company would be effected, hence no deal. What other company do you know runs their business at a loss just so the workers can have a higher than industry average wage??

And really how good are they getting so jealous about the bosses pay they stop work, maybe he is getting paid the big bucks because he deserves it, maybe they knew he would have to deal with these left wing unions and not be pushed around... So they make sure he is suitably paid... Personally I think a 5 million salary to run one of biggest airlines in the world is a cheap deal for the company.

Anyway, if they go broke none of them will have a job.... Then what will they say????

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by ShortMemory

 

Would this help to convience you?

www.brisbanetimes.com.au...

or maybe this?

www.businessspectator.com.au...

I'm still digging up more info re Virgin Blue and Richard Branson's possible hand in all of this; it does'nt sound so outragous after all!

And some people thought Qantas employees were greedy? Richard Branson wants CONTROL of the most profitable routes across Australia and the Pacific!

Virgin Blue rebranded Virgin Australia:

www.cnngo.com...

Richard Branson has a plan and a goal

edit on 29-10-2011 by bluemirage5 because: (no reason given)

haha clearly its been in the works for a while now. the media always eases people into things that are going to happen..

good digging so far, keep it up!

haha people who think the workers are greedy are blind. people want equality, and that should be a right.

time will tell but id be willing to bet the big winner is gunna be branson

I think that nothing is so simple as the lyrics of that pathetic band Midnight Oil.
The workers are greedy wanting West Coast mining wages in a comfortable East Coast locale.
They want the best of both worlds.
I hope reality hits them hard.

Originally posted by OzTruth

Originally posted by haveblue

Originally posted by OzTruth
There is no hidden agenda here just greedy workers...

Does that include Alan Joyce's 71 percent pay increase from 3 million to 5 million?

What CEO doesn't get millions of dollars??

Anyone that thinks a $530 million dollar profit for an airline is great should go back to school the operating cost of an international airline alone run into the billions... So the boss gets less than 1% of the net profit. That's pretty reasonable for a CEO these days and maybe he should be getting paid more, having to put his balls on the line like this. If you read into it, they have been given what they asked for... The other particulars are so extreme that the profit of the company would be effected, hence no deal. What other company do you know runs their business at a loss just so the workers can have a higher than industry average wage??

And really how good are they getting so jealous about the bosses pay they stop work, maybe he is getting paid the big bucks because he deserves it, maybe they knew he would have to deal with these left wing unions and not be pushed around... So they make sure he is suitably paid... Personally I think a 5 million salary to run one of biggest airlines in the world is a cheap deal for the company.

Anyway, if they go broke none of them will have a job.... Then what will they say????

The workers aren't striking because they got annoyed at their bosses pay increase. They are striking because they don't want their job's going overseas, specifically Asia. What would you do if your boss got a 71 percent pay increase and told you he wanted to send YOUR job overseas. Would you just say "yeah that's a real bummer, enjoy the 5 million mate". This is about Aust jobs going overseas, if you think this won't affect you because you don't work for qantas think again. Clearly you've got the Qantas spreadsheet at hand if you know that the company would be running at a loss if the unions got what they were asking for. This is about job security...not purely a pay increase.

reply to post by OzTruth


so your saying its ok for him to get a pay rise but not the workers?
he does nothing of importance and has proved that he is not a competent worker
of course he has his balls on the line; hes a scapegoat
thats why he got the payrise.. because he wouldnt be around long enough to get the asking price for ruining your image like this
whats wrong with you man
every thread you post on you spread absolute hate and crap
your either dis info or seriously deluded mate. the people are not your enemy

reply to post by ShortMemory


Branson is desperate to control the monopoly of the most highly profitable routes in Australia, they are the Brisbane-Sydney/Sydney-Melbourne routes as well as the Pacific route it is made to share with Qantas.

Keep in mind Richard Branson has thoroughly re-structured Virgin Australia and all it can accomplish now is expansion which he has already geared up to do at a moment's notice.....he can only do that with Qantas out of the way. Thats his main goal.

There's also Branson's space project, he needs to pump more money in to that.

The only problem is it gives more power to Virgin, and who wants Richard branson any richer?

Why does it bother you?
Politics of envy?
A crime to be successful and rich?

He has a least raised a lot for charity - unlike many of the well off.
Let's see you do better.

Originally posted by rhesusmonkey
I think that nothing is so simple as the lyrics of that pathetic band Midnight Oil.
The workers are greedy wanting West Coast mining wages in a comfortable East Coast locale.
They want the best of both worlds.
I hope reality hits them hard.

umm i think you may want to consult other midnight oil quotes on the issue.. they dont want the best of both worlds they want equality.
the best of both worlds is reserved for the rich right?
your scum if you honestly want the workers to suffer

read about it:

The rich get richer, the poor get the picture
The bombs never hit you when you're down so low
Some got pollution, some revolution
There must be some solution but I just don't know
The bosses want decisions, the workers need ambitions
There won't be no collisions when they move so slow
Nothing ever happens, nothing really matters
No one ever tells me so what am I to know

You wouldn't read about it, read about it
Just another incredible scene, there's no doubt about it

Hammer and the sickle, the news is at a trickle
The commissars are fickle but the stockpile grows
Bombers keep acoming, engines softly humming
The stars and stripes are running for their own big show
Another little flare up, storm brewed in a tea cup
Imagine any mix up and the lot would go
Nothing ever happens...

You wouldn't read about it, read about it
One unjust ridiculous steal, ain't no doubt about it
You wouldn't read about it, read about it
Just another particular deal, there's no doubt about it

reply to post by ShortMemory


Does'nt Joyce remind you of that previous Telstra CEO who went back to the USA?

Forgot his name now, forgot him, fullstop!

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by ShortMemory

 

Does'nt Joyce remind you of that previous Telstra CEO who went back to the USA?

Forgot his name now, forgot him, fullstop!

sol trujilo..and yes quite similar
i see ceo's as the public relations, they never call the shots.

Oh please.
Don't quote childish puerile Midnight Oil lyrics.
Big Mouth Baldie showed with pink batts that he can't mix it in the adult world.
Blood on his hands.

The Unions have overplayed their hand bigtime. I repeat that they and their members deserve a dose of reality. I'd add karma to the mix.

reply to post by rhesusmonkey


Is it all about Qantas employees or have the unions been paid a handsome reward for downing Qantas? You know how dubious those unions are, they are NEVER there for the workers!

Damned if you do.

Damned if you don't.

QANTAS are trying to do what's best for their shareholders and for the longevity of the company.

If this means sending work off shore, then that's what needs to happen.

The workers on strike probably do deserve a pay rise...but not in this climate...they should be happy with having a job in all reality, because they'll end up with two scenarios going down.

The first is that they get their payrise, QANTAS defaults and they lose their jobs and any money owing to them (superannuation)

The second is that they rough it out (this should include the CEO, CFO, etc) and try to keep the business from going off shore.

Businesses fail all the time, they downsize all the time, they move off shore all the time.

That is business and unions just make things worse.

This is about envy, pure and simple. Qantas bag handlers see fly in / fly out miners on the planes and wonder why aren't I earning as much. They wouldn't have the knackers to do the job, but want the dough.

reply to post by OzTruth
Oz Truth,

You clearly lack any real understanding of this matter. This dispute is almost entirely of Qantas corporates making, with minor blundering by the unions and it was years in the making with scheming, scamming and skullduggery in play that a hollywood producer could make a block buster from. Im a Qantas engineer, although not licensed so Im not directly in the firing line but close to half my colleagues and my direct boss are. The way this whole debacle has been handled in the press has proven to me that truth and free press are mostly dead. Alan Joyce, Leigh Clifford, James Strong, Lyle Strambi, and (lurking in the shadows still) Geoff Dixon have manipulated this entire thing for years. For those familiar with Australian industrial relations you might like to know that Chris Corrigan from the waterfront workers dispute fame is involved as an adviser.

There is nothing unreasonable being asked for at all by any of the three unions. The company has deliberately picked out obscure negotiation points in the press as examples of so called "unreasonable" demands. The stupid irony of this is that it was the company who originally started off this process years ago and demanded that haggling points like this be included in the negotiation process. The sheer idiocy of this reminds me of that haggling scene in Monty Pythons Life of Brian. Further the Licensed Engineers association (ALAEA) and the company were just about to sign off on a deal back in February when suddenly someone (Clifford is suspected as masterminding it) brought in yet another negotiating team and wiped out every single agreed point. To date there have been probably 25 meetings and the company presents a different negotiating team at everyone, of course you dont see this pointed out in the press do you? As for stopping work the ALAEA clearly stated that all industrial action was off for now and were asking the company to negotiate.

The unions are not perfect and some of it's negotiation stance is not agreed to by all it's members. They should be prepared to support better pay for it's younger lower paid members at the expense of more flexibility regarding the older better paid senior engineers. And maybe they should seize the initiative and come up with some novel cost savings of their own and tout them publicly instead of keeping it private where Qantas is able to manipulate press coverage. But all in all they really are (for once) not the bad guys in all of this.

As for Joyce and the rest of the executive getting big pay rises, exactly how is claiming that your international business suddenly began mysteriously loosing money from the previous year when nothing has changed and reducing the share price whilst talking down your own corporation for the past year, reason to grant a huge pay bonus? Are you for real or what? CEO's are supposed to stabilize, lead, direct and talk up their company, Joyce and Co have failed in all these points.

No the real sticking point in all this is the companies subterfuge in wanting to create shelf companies and off shoring jobs to the cheapest South East Asian country with the laxest labour laws, whilst cynically trying to continue to trade fakely on the Qantas iconic image as a safe professional airline. And all to the benefit of a few greedy pigs sticking their snouts in the trough.

There is no doubt that structural changes are needed at Qantas just like many other airlines and some jobs may become redundant but the model being put forward is both poisonous, wrong and doomed to failure. And it's all a fraud being played out on you the traveling public.

LEE.

Occupy Sydney protesters support Qantas strikes.
YouTube

This makes me laugh people that don't work supporting people not to work

'There is nothing unreasonable being asked for at all by any of the three unions.'

Horse#.

Build us a new building to work in cause we don't like the current one (really).
Promise permanent job security (impossible for any industry, any business).
Promise that you won't use any offshore maintenance (when every other world carrier does).

OK here goes after reading all the post on here about the unions:

They where offered 9% over 3 years inflation is higher so why should they not aleast get that?
They asked for 15% over 3 with an extra 1% to super, I can understand why the airline knocked this back.

This was a pre planned move by the CEO knowing we have the spring racing carnival on at the moment, he will force the goverment to get involved and order all industrial action to stop. He wins, but the plot thickens, there was no industrial action planned this week across the board from any of the workers unions, and yet he states "I have grounded the fleet as of 5pm today due to industrial action". He has hoodwinked the public and government.

If I was a shreholder come Monday I would be asking for him to step down including the entire board, the shareholders did not vote for this and I doubt they would have.

I haven't been following this and don't really know the details about what this is about. But here's my opinion in any case. Qantas has a fantastic image of being a premium "legacy" airline with a perfect safety record operating by highly trained professional Australians. Outsourcing jobs to the cheapest south-east asian countries possible simply in my mind completely destroys this brand image and turns the airline into a faux. Management get no sympathy from me as it sounds like a stupid idea to start with, the unions are right.

Also I don't see why anyone would invest in Qantas, over say, Virgin.