Mathematics Is Wrong. Here's Why.

Hey, did you steal my latest journal entry?

I think what you said about "infinity having form is no longer infinity," easily challenges the notion of a God in many Christian and other beliefs. That is to say, "if God is not this coffee cup or God is not my shoes, then God is not infinite." OP, you and I are on the same page when you say that all things arise from infinity. Your post is Taoism in mathematical form.

How can we have "finity" without "infinity?" An absolutely magnificent post, OP.

Originally posted by john_bmth
If I'm in a car travelling at 60km per hour and I slow down to a stand still, I'm travelling at 0km per hour, not and infinite number of km per hour.

How can you be "traveling" and be at a stand still. you have stopped you are no longer traveling. However at he moment you begin to travel again it can be said that you may travel infinitely.

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by john_bmth
If I'm in a car travelling at 60km per hour and I slow down to a stand still, I'm travelling at 0km per hour, not and infinite number of km per hour.

How can you be "traveling" and be at a stand still. you have stopped you are no longer traveling. However at he moment you begin to travel again it can be said that you may travel infinitely.

My speed would be 0km per hour.

Zero and infinity do not exist.

You can't divide by zero because the nature of 'division' means splitting something into one or more pieces.

You had to use mathematics to arrive at this "conclusion". Interesting....

reply to post by smithjustinb


Perhaps you should come up with your own axioms and create your own mathematics.
I think you are suggesting the things we take self-evident in mathematics are wrong(which you can't prove because they are assumed to be true). There is nothing wrong with starting with a new set of axioms and I think it would be great to do so and see what you come up with. If not just for a mental exercise.

One more thing. I constantly see people confuse "counting" with "measuring."
The natural numbers are the counting numbers. Nobody would count -5 apples. But measuring is different.
You can define an origin of zero and something like -5 miles from a starting point would be perfectly valid. The negative is supplying you with direction from the origin. You can always move the origin so as your -5 miles isn't negative but it really doesn't matter.

Also, I concur with others that "infinity" is most definitely not a number. It's a term meaning "on and on without end" Be careful using it in equations like its a real number.

And lastly, in the end mathematics imo is a "symbol game." A fun one too imo. Occasionally you get meaningful results which is fantabulous!

Just to state infinite is not or any way can be calculated. If u think about it what u consider to be infinite, at one millosecond has a destint amount and an exact number.... To say it is impossible to have infinite anything is physically impossible. 0 is a consept. I am right now holding 0 apples. How do I know this? Cause I'm hungry if I was holding an apple I would be eating it. 0 can be calculated into problems. Yes it serves no perpose to add 1+0=1 but it can physically be done. I can see ur consept but infinite is physically impossible and 0 can be proven. I hope my input helps out.

reply to post by john_bmth


I never said 0 is equal to infinity

-Alien

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by john_bmth
If I'm in a car travelling at 60km per hour and I slow down to a stand still, I'm travelling at 0km per hour, not and infinite number of km per hour.

How can you be "traveling" and be at a stand still. you have stopped you are no longer traveling. However at he moment you begin to travel again it can be said that you may travel infinitely.

My speed would be 0km per hour.

Actually you are STILL traveling, the earth is rotating, the solar system is in motion, and the universe is in motion as well.
You are still traveling, one aspect of you is stopped, and 3 others are in motion.
Correct?

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by 547000
0 is a number, but infinity is not a number. Infinite is a process.

The infinite is not a process. It is stationary. Finite is a process, it has momentum.

But you are right about 0. It is just a number.

In mathematics it is a process. It means that something increases without bound.

Ok. But physically the infinite can't expand. What dimension would it expand within?

Complete chaos? the eleventh dimension? Well this is where infinity will reside but you are right infinity cannot expand.

-Alien

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


Within the Earth's frame of reference my speed would be 0km per hour.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

Within the Earth's frame of reference my speed would be 0km per hour.

Speed would be the measurement used to gauge how fast or slow something is moving? If you are not moving, relative to the context, there is no measure of speed.

Originally posted by Alien Abduct

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by spy66

Originally posted by 547000
0 is a number, but infinity is not a number. Infinite is a process.

The infinite is not a process. It is stationary. Finite is a process, it has momentum.

But you are right about 0. It is just a number.

In mathematics it is a process. It means that something increases without bound.

Ok. But physically the infinite can't expand. What dimension would it expand within?

Complete chaos? the eleventh dimension? Well this is where infinity will reside but you are right infinity cannot expand.

-Alien

edit on 8/30/2011 by Alien Abduct because: spelling correction

edit on 8/30/2011 by Alien Abduct because: (no reason given)

If this is the case then it is not infinite?
Infinity goes on and on, does not begin or end if it did either it would become finite.

take the typical x y z axis graph and in the middle put a sideways 8 instead of a zero, zed, or letter o, or nil, or whatever.

This makes perfect sense to me.

we are AT infinity. Infinity is not behind us. Right now is infinity. Me typing that last sentence is infinity minus 10 seconds ago. When you read this you are at infinity.

Not sure about zero or infinities but this thread is sixteen pages long. I think this fact gives all of us good reason to seriously consider the idea of shutting down the internet forever.

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

 

Within the Earth's frame of reference my speed would be 0km per hour.

Speed would be the measurement used to gauge how fast or slow something is moving? If you are not moving, relative to the context, there is no measure of speed.

Exactly, ZERO speed or ZERO km per hour. Look, I hate to burst someone's bubble but this is semantics, not mathematics. To suggest that 0 = inf is incorrect, no amount of semantical gymnastics will change that. In math, zero exists. Conceptually for human beings, zero exists. The math is not wrong, I font see airplanes falling out the sky because "mathematics is wrong".

reply to post by smithjustinb


Fantastic post. Ive recently always believed that all things come from infinity, rather than nothing. Youve really summed it up nicely from a mathematical point of view.

As you say, its implications go beyond just math.

Great thread .. thanks OP for sharing your thoughts, this thread is one of the best Koans I read in weeks ..

I'm of the opinion that zero or Shunya should be thought of as "formlessness" rather than "nothing" as the western mind conceives of nothing. and Infinity should be thought of as "form" .. all things that exist known and unknown, yet may exist. I think there is a 3rd state which is the unknowable .. which is neither form nor formlessness ..

shunya as related to zero, is more that all things are present in a formless state, ie molecule base components and have the potential to be recombined into form or infinity, all possibilities or roughly Samsara. our physical world.

I think the poster that stated that the only true numbers that exist are "0" and "1", no other numbers exist, since there can only be what exist --form and what potentially may exist -- formlessness. Everything else in between is varying degrees between the two opposing ends. ying and yang, form and no-form.

The problem with the thought of nothing as a western conceptual thought is that the human mind can not conceive of such a proposition, logic does not work. We all need to remember that the minds that created the concept of Shunya, were not western minds, these were minds that thought in duality and wholeness, paradoxes and conundrums which is a foreign concept to the western thought of linear thought. So both everything exist and does not exist. Everything that is and will be is already encoded into "0" formlessness and "1" form ... hence the use of binary code to create virtual worlds.

A great link on the subject can be found hereIFA and Cliffords Algebra.

Thanks again for the post and the shedding light on the forum.

Peace.

Originally posted by THE1MAN
Just to state infinite is not or any way can be calculated. If u think about it what u consider to be infinite, at one millosecond has a destint amount and an exact number.... To say it is impossible to have infinite anything is physically impossible. 0 is a consept. I am right now holding 0 apples. How do I know this? Cause I'm hungry if I was holding an apple I would be eating it. 0 can be calculated into problems. Yes it serves no perpose to add 1+0=1 but it can physically be done. I can see ur consept but infinite is physically impossible and 0 can be proven. I hope my input helps out.

Subjectively, 0 can be used to designate absence, although infinity can be used as well if you so choosed because infinity is formless and it applies to your situation.

Objectively, if you have one apple and you take away one, there is still one apple, although it doesn't belong to you. Infinity allows you to take into consideration this objective point of view where everything retains its existence even when it appears that it does not.

reply to post by smithjustinb


But you OP was about mathematics. In mathematics, 0 is not used to denote infinity nor is it used to denote an arbitrary value. Mathematics is not "wrong" in this respect. What mathematical problems does your "right" math solve that the "wrong" math doesn't?