"The Bright Morning Star", What is That?

reply to post by jmdewey60


That makes sense, and with Jesus, it came. We're just catching up with that reality now.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

They call what I am speaking of "imammentizing the Eschaton" a great "heresy" according to Church decree. In other words, do not DARE to declare, as Jesus did, the coming of the kingdom of heaven, lest everyone fall victim to a "moral reletavism".

I'm pretty sure that John the Baptist preaching repentance marked the existence of the Kingdom.

You don't think it went away when Jesus returned to the father, do you?

Although I think the church may have sought to lock it up and store it in some iron and stained glass vault behind the walls of empire during the council of Nicea.

In which case our mission in part is to crash the gates and retrieve it, as the boon to humanity it was intended to convey.

Heh! For some reason, the opening segment from the old TV show "Get Smart" comes to mind here, with the gates all flying open as fast as Max would walk!

reply to post by NewAgeMan

You don't think it went away when Jesus returned to the father, do you?

No.
I am saying it was there while Jesus was preaching and is still here.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Sure would be nice to see it start busting out all over the place again though, wouldn't it?

Perhaps we could then look at the church like a stained glass bottle containing a message floated down to us from that sunshiney day at the Jordan river.

And so what does the baptism of John really signify? Is it not the same idea of evolutionary transformation via an initiation into death (of sin and evil) and resurrection/regeneration? of new wine into new wineskins?

It is interesting the part where Jesus tells his disciples that John was the reincarnation of Elijah because there was an exchange, also at the Jordan river between Elijah and Elisha, where Elijah made a promise (unfulfilled at the time) for the provision of a double helping of the Spirit.. something fulfilled in the vision of John the Baptist at the moment of Jesus' own baptism/initiation.

The point being, that sometimes these promises take a while to manifest themseves, but that they are always inevitable when made with full spiritual authority.

And so, because the church does not and cannot hold Christ captive the Spirit of God cannot be contained in it's strict doctrinal framework. The spiritual Genie will break out.

Ironic that the meaning of the word "Church" is "to call out from", not unlike Jesus' command to Lazarus, resurrected from the dead.


Who do I think I am? (I know you think this and judge me). I am the bride of Christ, and while I haven't always been the best and most loyal of wives, nevertheless, I am his beloved and am given access to whatever I need to know. The how and why of this is a mystery to me, maybe it's because, as a prodigal son, he who's been forgiven more, loves more, and because God can bestow his riches on whoever he likes. That said, I will and can do better, but that is nobody's business but me and the Lord's as my husband. It is for no one else to judge, although i should point out that while I'm a straight man, all Christians, as receptacles of the Word, are to Christ, as women to their husband, and that integration between our masculine and feminine aspects is vital to our growth and maturity in Christ and the kingdom life.

And no I'm not crazy.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Who do I think I am? (I know you think this and judge me).

Not sure what you are talking about. I'm the only other person posting on this thread today so I have to assume you mean me.
I really don't have any thoughts about you much and definitely not so much as to come close to forming a judgement about you.
I am just thinking about these concepts you brought up and it takes a bit of digesting so why I might seem quiet about it, not that I am trying to indicate disapproval or something.
Right now I am reading a PDF of what the word in the NT for, church, means.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Just something I picked up on from your replies to me not just in this thread but others, reading between the lines. Then again, the monicur I use (NewAgeMan) tends to generate confusion as to where I'm coming from. Anyway, thanks for your consideration, and the "benefit of the doubt".

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Who do I think I am? (I know you think this and judge me). I am the bride of Christ, and while I haven't always been the best and most loyal of wives, nevertheless, I am his beloved and am given access to whatever I need to know. The how and why of this is a mystery to me, maybe it's because, as a prodigal son, he who's been forgiven more, loves more, and because God can bestow his riches on whoever he likes. That said, I will and can do better, but that is nobody's business but me and the Lord's as my husband. It is for no one else to judge, although i should point out that while I'm a straight man, all Christians, as receptacles of the Word, are to Christ, as women to their husband, and that integration between our masculine and feminine aspects is vital to our growth and maturity in Christ and the kingdom life.

Then would you be willing to take on a project for me? The formation of Neo-Marcionism, as an alternative to all those forms of Christianity who think that the demon monster Yahweh is God, and that there is any value in holding on to the genocidal ravings known as the Old Testament?

I would do it myself but then I wouldn't particularly want to be a member. Some one should do it for the benefit of people who want to be Christians without being forced into violence by Yahweh, the demander of death and violence and exclusion.

You mentioned immanentizing the eschaton in a previous post. I've been fighting against three manifestations of immanentizing the eschaton for the last 10 years.
1) Neo Conservatism of Project for a New American Century
2) Chabad Judaism with its insistence on "all for Israel, no Palestine" and the Settler Movement.
3) Christian Zionism

You can look these things up.

reply to post by Frira

You might want to do a search on "Combat Myth" (Collins)

I did get the book, The Combat Myth in the Book of Revelation, by Adela Yarbro Collins.
It's actually the most recent of my book purchases and sitting right on the edge of my bookcase.
Thank's for your recommendation, and a year later I finally get to it.
Well, buying the book, but yet to actually read it.
I'll have to search it and see if I can find anything to answer the questions I brought up on this thread.

As an update on my last post, I did not see asnything relevant to the thread in Collins' book, looking through some parts of it last night.
I did find something in Aune's rather exhaustive three volume commentary on Revelation. It is (according to Aune ) probably a statement indicating that Jesus was the fulfillment of a messianic prophecy in Numbers 24:17,

. . . A star will march forth out of Jacob, and a scepter will rise out of Israel. . . .

Which is elaborated on in the Damascus scroll, of the Dead Sea Scroll collection.