Anders Behring Breivik, the Norway killer

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


Umm, how is it a cheap shot, to point out that we are debating? Weird thing to say. I don't take cheap shots, I speak plain.

Agree to disagree. How much do you know about Monarch mind control? I could turn your question around the same way.

Again, I think the "manifesto",was authored as part of a clever agenda. But, I think I've posted my point in several threads, no need to do it again. If you want to know my opinions, I've referenced them. I've already gotten in a circular discussion about this in another thread, which I won't repeat here, because there were complaints about the bickering in that thread, and I agree. I post my view, you post yours, we don't have to see eye to eye.

reply to post by starviego


Uhm, we learn English in school from we're like 7-8 years old. Much of his manifesto though, is copy & paste work from other extremists and sources.

Originally posted by starviego

Originally posted by SevenStarrz
... As for the "manifesto", I question that it was authored by the gunman, or at least he was told what to write.

Exactly. All the supposed online 'evidence' is highly suspect. How do we even know Breivik wrote the manifesto--in apparently expert English, not his native tongue? And what does gunning down a bunch of innocents--most of them of his own race and culture--have to do with fighting immigration and multiculturalism? Nothing!!! It is amazing to me how many people buy into the nonsense that is put in front of them.

Exactly.

Thank you.

Originally posted by DrakeBloodaxXe
reply to post by starviego

 

Uhm, we learn English in school from we're like 7-8 years old. Much of his manifesto though, is copy & paste work from other extremists and sources.

Yes, which could also point to the fact that it was authored by his programmers, or they told him to write it that way, in order to gain more control over these extremists, and monitor them.

reply to post by Nosred


I disagree, bring the racists out so they are in the open, make a dialog. Of course we should read books from people who never killed anyone, the greatest minds of our time was peaceful people.
But understanding what drives people to such actions is imperative to catching them before it happens again, I do not agree with a single word in 2083, so where is the harm in me trying to understand what happened to my small country?
The manifest/2083 is out there and easily available to both those who disagrees, but needs to understand and wants to stop this madness, as well as it is available to those crazy enough to be lulled into such a insane fantasy world.

No problem in this world is going away by simply ignoring them.

Originally posted by starviego

How do we even know Breivik wrote the manifesto--in apparently expert English, not his native tongue? And what does gunning down a bunch of innocents--most of them of his own race and culture--have to do with fighting immigration and multiculturalism? Nothing!!! It is amazing to me how many people buy into the nonsense that is put in front of them.

He is writing in prison as well, in English. Most of the text in the manifest is cut'n'paste from other sources. When he was at the first court hearing he wanted to talk in English as it was his working language I think he put it. Hey I'm writing in English, I'm from Norway, am I a mind control victim?

In ABB's mind those people was not innocent, they were traitors for letting the Norwegian culture be exterminated by letting in Muslims and allowing multiculturalism to grow. In the manifest he lists different countries and how many traitors each country has divided into "A" and "B" traitors. Almost all of them politicians, writers and journalists. In Norway he lists around 4500 people to be "A" traitors all of them white Norwegians.

If you want to find a conspiracy and can only look a things in terms of conspiracy all you can find is a conspiracy.

reply to post by SevenStarrz

Originally posted by SevenStarrz
You don't have to "buy" my opinion, haha. The point of debate is to exchange ideas, yes?

That is in my opinion not very valuable to the debate and is leading the exchange of meanings on a side track, and attending a discussion forum I'm quite aware what the point of debate is.

But, to the point.
I do not see anything except your opinion on the matter, a weak one at that. If the point was to make everyone just idle along without any real meanings in fear of being seen as a threat then this discussion is utter proof they have failed isn't it?
I mean, look at me and DrakeBloodAxe, we are both Norwegians, he is from the far right and I am from the far left, but still we voice our opinions on this and any matter we feel like. He seems to be very sceptic about Muslims, and I on the other hand am not.
The one thing ABB did not succeed in was silencing us in any way.
So there's my proof, now you show me yours.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by SevenStarrz

 

Originally posted by SevenStarrz
You don't have to "buy" my opinion, haha. The point of debate is to exchange ideas, yes?

But, to the point.
I do not see anything except your opinion on the matter, a weak one at that. If the point was to make everyone just idle along without any real meanings in fear of being seen as a threat then this discussion is utter proof they have failed isn't it?
I mean, look at me and DrakeBloodAxe, we are both Norwegians, he is from the far right and I am from the far left, but still we voice our opinions on this and any matter we feel like. He seems to be very sceptic about Muslims, and I on the other hand am not.
The one thing ABB did not succeed in was silencing us in any way.
So there's my proof, now you show me yours.

I don't think the point is to "silence", but to monitor, because now people fear both muslims, and far right extremists.

The point I am trying to make is that both sides now look suspect, far left, and far right. Now, both sides look like they have terrorist leanings, connections, intentions. And neither of us have "proof". What we have is opinions.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen



If you want to find a conspiracy and can only look a things in terms of conspiracy all you can find is a conspiracy.

Or ... it could actually *be* a conspiracy ...

Originally posted by SevenStarrz

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen



If you want to find a conspiracy and can only look a things in terms of conspiracy all you can find is a conspiracy.

Or ... it could actually *be* a conspiracy ...

edit on 1-8-2011 by SevenStarrz because: (no reason given)

Or it might be time to use logic and reason instead of grasping at straws.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
Or it might be time to use logic and reason instead of grasping at straws.

Or it could be time to maybe think outside of the official story!

(But, we've made our points. This is kind of bickery now, yes? Boring for other readers. Let's leave it here, or go to private message.)

reply to post by SevenStarrz


As far as I know no-one is scared of the right wing extremists, kind of surprised I think is a better word, like with Timothy McWeigh except in that case I'd give it a 99% better chance of actually being some sort of conspiracy (no, not mind control).
Only right wing extremists that are powerful enough to be scary is in Israel and in congress in the U.S, and they are mainly scary for Muslims.

I don't believe in individual mind control it seems implausible when it is so easy to control peoples minds through mass media it also seems very inefficient. That's why I never watch television and always use ad-block(except for when I'm on ATS of course)

reply to post by SevenStarrz


Debate has to have a basis in some fact. It also has to have a contention, or several of them, on which to argue the facts of the debate. To start with.

What you are doing is presenting yourself as an authority and give no facts to debate about. Avoiding giving anything to discuss that can be proven or dis-proven. Having a Pro or Con is the ENTIRE BASIS of debate.

What you engaging in is ego-gratifying logical fallacy.

To agree to disagree on something, there actually has to be some data, fact, piece of reality, on which to disagree about.

We can all agree to disagree on the idea with some sort of supportive substance. Until you actually support your ideas, there is nothing to disagree with you on.

Aeons, I don't debate with you, because all you do is bait (such as saying I am presenting myself as an authority, when I am clearly NOT.) Furthermore, there is absolutely no point or intelligible argument to your posts, except that you weirdly follow me about trolling me. So, bait away. I'm not that easy to manipulate, and frankly, you bore me. END OF.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen
reply to post by SevenStarrz

 

As far as I know no-one is scared of the right wing extremists, kind of surprised I think is a better word, like with Timothy McWeigh except in that case I'd give it a 99% better chance of actually being some sort of conspiracy (no, not mind control).
Only right wing extremists that are powerful enough to be scary is in Israel and in congress in the U.S, and they are mainly scary for Muslims.

I don't believe in individual mind control it seems implausible when it is so easy to control peoples minds through mass media it also seems very inefficient. That's why I never watch television and always use ad-block(except for when I'm on ATS of course)

I have read a bit about mind control, and see the hallmarks in this massacre. That's my opinion, and I'm presenting it only as thus. Had we read the same materials on the subject, this debate would be easier, as we'd have a common frame of reference to discuss whether the gunman was under mind control, or not.

Originally posted by SevenStarrz


I don't think the point is to "silence", but to monitor, because now people fear both muslims, and far right extremists.

The way I see it is, you can't have *any* opinion, except one that is middle-of-the-road, without coming under suspicion, now:

You are contradicting yourself in a very clear manner, this is not bickering, it's just you making wild and inaccurate claims and me trying to have a discussion you clearly are not willing to participate in. At least not in any serious fashion. (Very annoying).
You can go back and re-read some of my posts and see if you have any answers to my questions of your knowledge of right wing extremist groups and your view of them being able to form someones mind in a way that made ABB in to what he is today, or you can educate me on mind control, a topic I am interested in and have read a whole lot about, from MK-ULTRA via Jonestown up to Scientology.
But, please don't tell me I have only opinions, they are opinions backed up by facts, unlike yours.

reply to post by SevenStarrz


I posted several sites pointing to material witch backs up my claims, can't see that it is much harder for you to serve up some that builds up under yours.

I don't want to link to the manifest/2083 here but if you know how to use google, that won't be a problem, other than that I am more than willing to back up everything I say with links.

reply to post by SkurkNilsen


Firstly, if SevenStarrz were to stop and tell you all about MK Ultra, she would be veering far off-topic. That would belong to another thread, which is what she seems to be trying to make clear. Secondly, in no way have I seen her intimate that this mind control was carried out by small right-wing groups. I believe, having read this whole discussion, that both you and Aeons are being deliberately obtuse as far as claiming to not understand SevenStarrz points.

Having read information on MK Ultra, she is speaking her opinion, and one I concur with, that this case shows clear markers of such. We're not here in this thread for a history of MK Ultra and Project Artichoke - we are simply discussing whether or not Anders displays signs of such.

Thirdly, your claim that only Muslims are afraid of right wing groups is incorrect, as I can safely say that in the UK, for instance, all forms of extremism are frowned upon and do make people nervous - this having been exacerbated by the Norway massacre.

I literally begged these people for a topic with an actual definition of the wishy-washy words. I desperately tried to get them to come into some semblance of a logical debate. It proved useless. They avoid being pinned to reality like a dodgy financier.

Originally posted by SkurkNilsen

Originally posted by SevenStarrz


I don't think the point is to "silence", but to monitor, because now people fear both muslims, and far right extremists.

The way I see it is, you can't have *any* opinion, except one that is middle-of-the-road, without coming under suspicion, now:

You are contradicting yourself in a very clear manner, this is not bickering, it's just you making wild and inaccurate claims and me trying to have a discussion you clearly are not willing to participate in. At least not in any serious fashion. (Very annoying).
You can go back and re-read some of my posts and see if you have any answers to my questions of your knowledge of right wing extremist groups and your view of them being able to form someones mind in a way that made ABB in to what he is today, or you can educate me on mind control, a topic I am interested in and have read a whole lot about, from MK-ULTRA via Jonestown up to Scientology.
But, please don't tell me I have only opinions, they are opinions backed up by facts, unlike yours.

No, no contradiction at all. I am saying that if you voice an opinion on either side that is extreme, you will start to come under suspicion. How is that the same as "silencing"? Silencing implies a ban on opinion. Nobody is being banned. But, public opinion is being manipulated, I think.

I do have some knowledge of right-wing groups through reading up on them, and obviously, yes, some of them are very dangerous. As are Islamic extremists. Does this change the fact that we should blindly accept the official story, without question, as to whether a particular crime or massacre was manipulated? You make it sound like conjecture is a bad thing. It's not, it's healthy, and that's what this forum is for.

My source on mind control info? I am reading 'The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an UndetectableTotal Mind Controlled Slave', by Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler.

Again, you are asking for proof, when I tell you, all there is on my behalf is conjecture. The "facts" you say you have, could easily have been fabricated. Such as the manifesto. If we limit all discussions on ATS to ones where people produce "proof", there'd be about three threads.