Atheist group tries to sue Gov. Perry for prayer rally

rt.com...

Texas Governor Rick Perry might be kept from continuing his support of an upcoming prayer party if a Wisconsin-based collective of atheists succeeds in their plans of preventing Perry from promoting it.

The Freedom from Religion Foundation is attempting to block the governor from participating in the event scheduled for next month at Reliant Stadium in Houston, TX, saying that Perry’s participation in the rally is in violation of the US Constitution.

Perry is planning on holding “The Response: A Call to Prayer for a National in Crisis" on August 6, but the atheists attest that his involvement would breach the separation of church and state. Five individuals filed a federal lawsuit in Houston on Wednesday, saying that they are "nonbelievers who support the free exercise of religion, but strongly oppose the governmental establishment and endorsement of religion.”

Is this a violation of church and state? Im not sure.

I dont really have a problem with Perry asking people to pray with him. He's not forcing people to pray with him, he's just asking. Im not religious, but I could care less if other people all pray at once.

I don't believe so.

The Governor is a Christian. He is privately, though as Gov, attending a religious event. The event appears to be held on a private location, and not a federally owned facility.

There is nothing unconstitutional about it. It simply does not violate any separation clauses.

And this is coming from a rather militant atheist/agnostic/possibilian.

The only problem I have with it is the fact that its a politician using God as a selling point. Its really pathetic and weak.

Just more intolerance from the Atheists.

2nd line.

If he is attending the rally as a citizen, no issues
If he is attending the rally as a governor, no problems

If he is promoting it as governor, then there is a problem...he can go to as many rallys, retreats, cermonies, etc as he wants to, it only crosses the line when he uses his office to promote it.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
There is nothing unconstitutional about it. It simply does not violate any separation clauses.

CBS News

Texas Republican Gov. Rick Perry is calling on Americans to join him in Houston in August for a prayer and fasting event to heal "a nation that has not honored God in our successes or humbly called on Him in our struggles."

"According to the Bible, the answer to a nation in such crisis is to gather in humility and repentance and ask God to intervene,"

It seems pretty clear by what this guy is saying that he most certainly is co-mingling his religion with government. This guy is on record as calling Texans to pray to relieve a drought.

We're not talking about a governor simply attending his church or synagogue. We're talking about a guy organizing a "prayer rally" to "solve" political problems and as a publicity stunt for his possible run for the presidency.

And as you can see here, All Texas republicans MUST tow a christian line.

Atheist groups are correct in their objections.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Just more intolerance from the Atheists.

2nd line.

Indeed.

Nobody should tolerate politicians unable to honor the First Amendment and that which goes with it.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Just more intolerance from the Atheists.

2nd line.

Indeed.

Nobody should tolerate politicians unable to honor the First Amendment and that which goes with it.

That's funny. The Atheists are trying to take away Perry's right to Free Speech through their actions, yet Perry having a Prayer Rally does nothing to the Atheists rights to Free Speech. Hmmm.

But if the Atheists are able to shut the rally down through legal channels, would that not be a violation of the Governor's right to practise his religion?

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Just more intolerance from the Atheists.

2nd line.

Indeed.

Nobody should tolerate politicians unable to honor the First Amendment and that which goes with it.

That's funny. The Atheists are trying to take away Perry's right to Free Speech through their actions, yet Perry having a Prayer Rally does nothing to the Atheists rights to Free Speech. Hmmm.

I wonder if you would be equally as apathetic about this if his religion was islam and he was calling on the people of texas to attend a call to prayer with him and used islamic doctrain.

Its all good, so long as its your religion I guess. Atheists are trying to seperate someone in political office from pushing a religion...for now its christianity, but down the road, -when- muslims are the majority, the discussions that atheists seem to intolerant about will suddenly make sense...
We are not pushing governors to be atheist, we are pushing government to not incorporate religion (any) into the office...
Since when does religion require government to push it? It should be insulting to believers just as much as non believers...and again, when the nation shifts from christianity to islam, you will understand the argument...but by then you would have fought so hard to keep "In Allah We Obey" on our money and in our pledges...


I really hate to bring up the whole islam thing btw, but it does make some christians see the actual issue verses continously thinking atheists have it out for christians verses trying to remove any and all religions from influencing politics.

(What happens if Satanism suddenly becomes the top religion of the country...should we start political movements overtly promoting satan?)

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


I don't really see it as that. It seems like that is his message that he as a person is saying. I'm rather certain he is entitled to that.

Is you using taxpayer funds to organize the event? (Besides gas money I suppose.)
Is he sponsoring the event on a federal facility?

No to either of these. Its fine.

The US Constitution makes no mention of the "Separation of Church and State". What is says is:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Meaning Gov. Perry, is within his constitutionally protected right to participate in and promote a prayer rally. What he cannot do is make or propose a law which would infringe on such activities or prohibit the free exercise of someone else’s religion. By this, it is in fact, unconstitutional to deny Gov. Perry his right to participate.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Just more intolerance from the Atheists.

2nd line.

Indeed.

Nobody should tolerate politicians unable to honor the First Amendment and that which goes with it.

That's funny. The Atheists are trying to take away Perry's right to Free Speech through their actions, yet Perry having a Prayer Rally does nothing to the Atheists rights to Free Speech. Hmmm.

This is not an issue of free speech.

This is an issue of the separation of church and state.

Originally posted by Glass
But if the Atheists are able to shut the rally down through legal channels, would that not be a violation of the Governor's right to practise his religion?

Nobody is asking him to stop practicing his religion.
.

reply to post by buni11687



Is this rally a violation of Church and State? I'm not sure. If it spends tax dollars than I would argue that it is but if it's just something Perry is doing in his free time using non-public funding than I wouldn't have a big problem with it. SaturnFX mentioned the possibility that he is using his office to promote the rally, which I would think violates the establishment clause by showing preference to religion.

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


But you would be prohibiting him from participating in a legal event that he chooses to express himself in. That is a violation of his first amendment rights.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Just more intolerance from the Atheists.

2nd line.

Indeed.

Nobody should tolerate politicians unable to honor the First Amendment and that which goes with it.

That's funny. The Atheists are trying to take away Perry's right to Free Speech through their actions, yet Perry having a Prayer Rally does nothing to the Atheists rights to Free Speech. Hmmm.

This is not an issue of free speech.

This is an issue of the separation of church and state.

"Separation of Church and State" is not in the Constitution, unless you think the U.S. Congress is trying to pass a law "respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Is you using taxpayer funds to organize the event? (Besides gas money I suppose.)
Is he sponsoring the event on a federal facility?

No to either of these. Its fine.

Well, he is (as governor) personally organizing and promoting it, it is exclusively christian, and it is held in conjunction with the AFA, a religious group attempting to influence government to adopt religious-based laws. A christian-only "prayer meeting" arranged by a state governor meets all the qualifications of a state government respecting an establishment of religion. Whether he can weasel this into being a legal event is dubious and it's certainly violating the important principle of the separation of church and state.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
"Separation of Church and State" is not in the Constitution

Sigh.
That's your argument?
Really?

Right out of the Texas GOP playbook.

Next, I suppose you'll tell us that separation of church and state is a "myth"

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Is you using taxpayer funds to organize the event? (Besides gas money I suppose.)
Is he sponsoring the event on a federal facility?

No to either of these. Its fine.

Well, he is (as governor) personally organizing and promoting it, it is exclusively christian, and it is held in conjunction with the AFA, a religious group attempting to influence government to adopt religious-based laws. A christian-only "prayer meeting" arranged by a state governor meets all the qualifications of a state government respecting an establishment of religion. Whether he can weasel this into being a legal event is dubious and it's certainly violating the important principle of the separation of church and state.

He, as a human being, is organizing and promoting it. Unless you can definitively prove he reallocated federal resources to his support of this "prayer rally," then the action has not violated the establishment clause. Its really as simple as that.

If you can prove he reallocated funds or manpower from his office for it, then I'm with you. Otherwise its just straw grasping at its pinnacle.