New York Atheists Angry Over 'Heaven' Street Sign Honoring Sept. 11 Victims

To each his/her own.

Originally posted by djzombie
How about...

"Norad Stood Down Blvd"

or

"Controlled Demolition Ave"

or

"False Flag Rd"

You would deem none of those acceptable, so why is it acceptable to push a religious group's(any - not targeting just christians) agenda?

edit on 22-6-2011 by djzombie because: (no reason given)

lol. stupid atheists don't care about that. they care more about "gawd" and "heavens"
than their own gvt killing 3000 people in broad daylight, right in front of everyone's eyes.
atheists... what a silly bunch. just shows that being an atheist don't mean jack #.
excuse my french.

Originally posted by Novatrino
I have yet to see any actual thread that has created intelligent debate about belief "systems".
peace, Nova

atheists, just like theists, don't like a reasonable and intelligent debate.
after all, atheists are only human. thus, prone to error... and stupidity.

Just a little something I think needs to be said...

Not all atheists are crazy and angry. Not all of them go around saying how stupid people who believe in god/gods are...because in reality, most of them are actually quite respectful to the points of view of others. The same can be said for pretty much every "religious" group. The problem is the extremists that exist in the groups.

reply to post by Ancient Champion


I have no belief in organized religion. There are likely members of the fire company that have similar beliefs. That someone used this particular descriptive way of memorializing these men should not be offensive to anyone. We all get the concept at various levels. Heaven. They're dead, they've moved on, they are no longer with us and most adults get it. How about "Seven into the Great Nothingness Ave"? That's catchy.

The protestors have confused this with an assault on their life styles and intellects. It is not. This is an expression of community. It's not oppressive and if it seems that way to you, you need help more so than the believers. Life is short. Move on.

Originally posted by Saya13
Just a little something I think needs to be said...

Not all atheists are crazy and angry. Not all of them go around saying how stupid people who believe in god/gods are...because in reality, most of them are actually quite respectful to the points of view of others. The same can be said for pretty much every "religious" group. The problem is the extremists that exist in the groups.

Very true. With such a range of belief and disbelief most people live together quite nicely. That's what is lost when these things come up.

Wow, the narrow mindedness being expressed here.

Every group on this planet has idiots. Those protestors are morons who happen to classify themselves as atheists. Anyone who then thinks that this means all atheists are like this are quite frankly just as moronic.

An old expression applies "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones". So as long as every single religious person on this planet never does anything moronic you are OK ..............as if !!!!!!!!!!!!

(I actually think the anti atheist sentiment being expressed with enthusiasm here is more a reflection of the fear religious people have in the face of ever increasing doubts)

Hang on, weren't they complaining about not being able to put advertisements on buses a few days ago?

I have always believed that my rights end where someone else's begin, with that being said, I cannot see anything wrong with the name of a street, this is one group trying to dominate another for a little publicity. The name of a street does not violate the others rights so they should leave well enough alone and quit trying to influence everyone around them.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by Ancient Champion

 

Its interesting that you only hear the atheist batchin about subjects dealing with christianity.
hmmm.
hate god much?

It's a simple concept really. I'll type slowly... so you have a greater chance of understanding...

Atheists cannot hate something they don't believe exists.

IRM

Mighty brave behind your keyboard son.

Yeah. I got the memo. I understand the basics of atheism. I also take note of peoples actions. From a purely psychological viewpoint, I know that some folks will rail against what ever authority (usually the highest available) when their life turns to crap.

These folks that are raising hell about a street named for 7 fireman (the ":seven in heaven") are prime examples of low class. If someone wants to be an athiest, hey. Thats fine. Dont screw with me or mine. I'd put money on this dirtbag Silverman being a marxist.

That is one jew that AINT Kosher!

I am an atheist.

It does not offend me.

It should not be the name of a public street.

I know it's common in human nature to lump people together, but this guy and his comments might not really represent how he feels (exaggeration on his part perhaps) and there are a number of very reasonable atheists out there that wish to stand by their principles and be socially conscious (myself included).

Take the following passage from the article:

Silverman said he would not be surprised if atheists are vilified for their criticism of the street sign – suggesting they were simply being patriotic. “If we’re opposed to this sign, we’re somehow opposed to honoring the heroes,” he said. “The attacks on 9/11 were an attack on America. They were an attack on our Constitution and breaking that Constitution to honor these firefighters is the wrong thing to do.

“The patriotic and right thing to do is to obey our own law and to realize that we are a diverse nation, a melting pot full of different views,” Silverman added. The local and national atheist organizations said they’ve offered alternative names that would still honor the firefighters, but without any religious affiliation.

I feel this is a reasonable statement that should be discussed without throwing all of us under a bus. Even though it's hard to Deny Ignorance, we should certainly try.

Peace
KJ

reply to post by Ancient Champion


Wow, what a bold move judging the population of an entire city the way you have.

It sounds like most NYCers know that the "official story" is a lie.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

 

Separation of Church and state is not a constitutional tenet. It's an arbitrary interpretation that does not exist in Constitutional jurisprudence. The 1st Amendment was never written so that it can bar all spiritual expression from every square inch of public property.

press-pubs.uchicago.edu...

Religious proclamations by the Executive recommending thanksgivings & fasts are shoots from the same root with the legislative acts reviewed. Altho' recommendations only, they imply a religious agency, making no part of the trust delegated to political rulers.

Gov't sponsorship of certain religions counts as 'implying' a religious agency. That's what we know about the writers intentions. Mix in with the courts decisions regarding the manner, doing their job of deciding the constitutionality of it.

You're right that it doesn't explicitly say that any spiritual expression is banned. But when every expression is always of a christian sort, just because most people here are, that is definitely 'implying' a religious agency.

Originally posted by Leemo
To each his/her own.

Really? Like Gay's right to marry?

Do you know what the hold up is in New York right now? Religious exemptions.

That's right - the religious want more guaranteed rights - before they will vote to allow a basic right.

If you don't fight for your rights and fight to keep those rights - - you won't have those rights.

Atheist must keep the government in "check" when it comes to funding/supporting anything of a religious nature.

Originally posted by Hemisphere
The protestors have confused this with an assault on their life styles and intellects. It is not. This is an expression of community. It's not oppressive and if it seems that way to you, you need help more so than the believers. Life is short. Move on.

Its not about any of that.

Its about the government funding/supporting something of a religious nature.

The religious would protest if the sign said "Honoring Atheists"

Originally posted by 547000
Hang on, weren't they complaining about not being able to put advertisements on buses a few days ago?

Privately paid for.

Not funded/supported by government.

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by Ancient Champion

 

Its interesting that you only hear the atheist batchin about subjects dealing with christianity.
hmmm.
hate god much?

It's a simple concept really. I'll type slowly... so you have a greater chance of understanding...

Atheists cannot hate something they don't believe exists.

IRM

Mighty brave behind your keyboard son.

Yeah. I got the memo. I understand the basics of atheism. I also take note of peoples actions. From a purely psychological viewpoint, I know that some folks will rail against what ever authority (usually the highest available) when their life turns to crap.

These folks that are raising hell about a street named for 7 fireman (the ":seven in heaven") are prime examples of low class. If someone wants to be an athiest, hey. Thats fine. Dont screw with me or mine. I'd put money on this dirtbag Silverman being a marxist.

That is one jew that AINT Kosher!

Execpt no one's screwing with you. This street sign is publicly funded. I really don't see why the people in this thread seem to have a hard time understanding that. If it were privately funded, then you would have a valid case for calling them low class, but it isn't, so you don't (especially if you actually read the story in the OP, which you probably didn't). Stop being ignorant.

Originally posted by psyop911

Originally posted by Novatrino
I have yet to see any actual thread that has created intelligent debate about belief "systems".
peace, Nova

atheists, just like theists, don't like a reasonable and intelligent debate.
after all, atheists are only human. thus, prone to error... and stupidity.

Could you point me to a rational argument that you have come up with pertaining to this issue?

Using ad hominem nonsense as your only weapon proves quite a similar point of your own intelligence, my friend.

How many of your religious deities value hypocrisy such as this?

Originally posted by Ancient Champion
.... If you don't like the sign then don't look at it!

Let's see. How can I put this?
Ok, I'm not saying your OP is arrogant.
The statement "if you don't like it, don't look at it" however is a nice example of believers' arrogance: why is that they feel they have the right to show the logos representing their club to worship the imaginary friend?
wouldn't it be a better world if we respect the public sphere as a sphere where all can participate without pushing ideas?

I support the protest of the NY Atheists.
Now, I have to clarify: I'm European. the debate between believers and atheists over here is less emotional, so i feel... probably because europe is more secularized already. Still as an atheist i have to pay taxes that are used to pay churches and priests. This I can't accept. If one wants to believe in a flying dog dropping that saves souls, fine by me. Just don't make me pay for that delusion.

What if I, or anyone else paid the cost of that sign.

Would the whining stop? I would hope so, but I doubt it. You'd have your people driving by every day glaring at it.

"Dammit. I have to drive by that street sign every day and it says HEAVEN on it! My day is ruined now! My Starbucks doesn't even taste good after seeing that sign!"