Conservatism (and neo-conservatism) is the root of all of our problems in America.

reply to post by armtx


That is a smart business model. Don't get yourself involved in pointless and illegal war and don't go bankrupt because of them.

Originally posted by SG-17
No, the true failing of this country is that too many people, both in power and the voters, can't see what is best for the people and only go with what their religion tells them, what businesses whispers in their ears, or what if fed to them by conservative media pundits.

edit on 5/26/2011 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

Among the Western powers, America does have this huge hang-up, of following
their religions, like you said above.
I don't see any end to it any time soon either, but it is bringing america down. It's not only that though,
Put "Neo" into anything and you end up with problems. So obviously Neo-conservatism is not a good option.

reply to post by SG-17


Find a way to get rid of self centered, holy than thou greedy ego-maniac bastards. That will be the solutiuon to all of our problems.

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
Ha! You have GOT to be kidding!

Where do you think all that money from socolized programs comes from? If you dont know, you should do a little more research. There is no such thing as a Utopia and even if there was, I would not want to be a part of it. Talk about boreing and sterile....


No, the downfall of this country is the "entitled" mentality, backed by laziness and a sever lack of self respect.

edit on 26-5-2011 by DerbyCityLights because: (no reason given)

Ya think? I don't. I think he is right on and there are many different actions this party has taken of late that proves where their honor lies. Forget that. Honor. Lets just say allegiance and vote. Here is one small example that comes to mind as I just saw this recently...
techdailydose.nationaljournal.com...
Drunk and want to avoid the police? There's an app for that, and Congress doesn't like it.

Lets better say the Dems in Congress don't like it.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., and three other Democratic senators Tuesday wrote executives with Apple, BlackBerry-maker Research In Motion and Google to complain about applications in their apps stores that alert drivers to drunken driving checkpoints.
"We appreciate the technology that has allowed millions of Americans to have information at their fingertips, but giving drunk drivers a free tool to evade checkpoints, putting innocent families and children at risk, is a matter of public concern,"

Where does the GOP stand on this? They don't give a damn if families on the roads are put at risk by drunken drivers. As long as somebody can sell this application - They will do nothing to ruffle the feathers of their OWNERS which is the elite corporate America.
Since most of these companies have gone global they can hardly be called American any more at least they do nothing for America and only reap their own personal profits.

maybe there's a season for everything....
there have been times (usually after 8 years of republican control of our gov't) that I've seen the value of the liberals, and there's been times (usually after 8 years of liberal control of our gov't) that I've seen the value of the conservatives.....it seems that in both cases, once either party gets that much control and there's no counter force to stifle them a little, well, we go down a long road that most of us don't want to go on!!
to me, that kind of tells me that neither philosophy is right, they are just the best we can do at this time.
the best times seem to have been when there's been a balance within our gov't so the two sides have to hash it out.....if they can manage that....
maybe the root of our problems is in thinking that our gov't can provide our answers instead of us???

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by DerbyCityLights

 

How does social welfare impact personal freedoms? You are still free to drive cars in Sweden, you are still free to use private health care in Sweden, you are still free to overpay for housing and utilities in Sweden, you are still free to not vote in Sweden, etc. Social welfare of the democratic socialist variety doesn't impact personal freedoms at all, if anything it increases them. No one is going to "take your guns", no one is going to abridge your right to free speech, right to assembly, or anything else defined by the Constitution or common law.

How does social welfare impact personal freedoms? Are you serious?
Who has to pay for it? The person on welfare? NO!
I have to work a minimum of 60 hours a week to pay my fair share and to help pay a few million others fair share as well.
You do relise that only about 51 percent of Americans pay taxes, right? The answer is not so much "taxing the rich " as it is "taxing EVERYONE, FAIRLY"
I have said it before and I shall say it again "The only people that should be getting goverment assistance, of any kind, are the elderly and truly disabled". Everyone else should be working. Whether it be picking up trash or cleaning toilets. There should be NO FREE RIDES.
You may want to sit back, smoke dope and have everything handed to you but maybe you should stop and think about the rest of us for a moment.

reply to post by Cuervo

I agree. We are doing it wrong. That doesn't mean "it" is wrong. On a federal level? Yeah, demolish it. But I want my taxes to pay for the needy and for my healthcare and for my children's tuition and not pay for the healthcare and tuitions of all the bankers' kids or for the needy in foreign countries who are only needy because we bombed them or... I could keep going. The concept of welfare is a good one. Just make it localized.

No problem with that friend. Keep it local and well scrutinized and we all will save a lot of money and hard feelings. It is the blasted corrupt bureaucracy that I have problems with.

reply to post by SG-17


Against my better judgement, I'll bite.

What country are you from?

How old are you (generally).?

My country was based on conservative concepts from the get go. It didnt get stupid till the end of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century.

Till then? You earned what you got. neighbors helped neighbors. The government was something that was like a good child...seen but not heard.

Now? nanny state.

neo cons? Predatory capitalism/ Walmart
socialists/marxists/communists? Over regulation/ nanny state.

These two factions are equally bad.

TRUE conservatives and libs can work together fine....provided they dont overstep. One can temper the other.

Your entitled to your viewpoint but I totally disagree with it.

Originally posted by Quadrivium

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by DerbyCityLights

 

How does social welfare impact personal freedoms? You are still free to drive cars in Sweden, you are still free to use private health care in Sweden, you are still free to overpay for housing and utilities in Sweden, you are still free to not vote in Sweden, etc. Social welfare of the democratic socialist variety doesn't impact personal freedoms at all, if anything it increases them. No one is going to "take your guns", no one is going to abridge your right to free speech, right to assembly, or anything else defined by the Constitution or common law.

How does social welfare impact personal freedoms? Are you serious?
Who has to pay for it? The person on welfare? NO!
I have to work a minimum of 60 hours a week to pay my fair share and to help pay a few million others fair share as well.
You do relise that only about 51 percent of Americans pay taxes, right? The answer is not so much "taxing the rich " as it is "taxing EVERYONE, FAIRLY"
I have said it before and I shall say it again "The only people that should be getting goverment assistance, of any kind, are the elderly and truly disabled". Everyone else should be working. Whether it be picking up trash or cleaning toilets. There should be NO FREE RIDES.
You may want to sit back, smoke dope and have everything handed to you but maybe you should stop and think about the rest of us for a moment.

my wife and I were on the back porch smoking the other night and discussing taxation.

With the concept of the flat tax (as normally proposed) we will go from paying about 4k a year in taxes (after refund) to about 6 or seven. We only make about 65k a year.....damn sure aint bring home! Cut that to about half or less!

I know some folks that SHOULD have their asses working...too damn lazy and the feds are "oh so concerned" and give them SSI.

YOURS AND MY TAX MONEY!

Taxes (I'm pretty sure you already know this..its for others) were supposed to be paid by FOREIGN GOVT'S!

Tariffs and Duties via trade!

That all changed in '13.

Conservatism isn't what is wrong with this country capitalism is whats wrong with this country. Conservatives like Ron Paul have alot of great ideas for this country. Capitalist however care nothing about this country all they care about is keeping the elite above everyone else. This country started going down hill when it decided to embrace the profit motive.

Great OP!

There is a direct relationship between high suicides and conservative government. scienceblogs.com...
That’s because conservative philosophy is anti-human, selfish, and based on ignorance and division.
Most European systems are doing better because they understand that you can’t have a system of naked greedy capitalism. Soon those who support this conservative philosophy of: the rich and powerful get to do what they want based on “freedom” will taste what they have reaped. . . when the American people wake up.

Wolfowitz, Perlman, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc... All need to die before anything good can happen in this country.

I don't remember the US ever being communist, like OP suggests. Move to Sweden if you want free housing, I happen to support the free market.

Yes and when the USA was the most properous and effective nation on the earth it was run by conservative people compared to those that run it and live in it today.

Your arguement failed before it got out of the blocks

People can and do debate back and forth on this topic. For the most part, I agree with the OP.

Here's another sweet little tidbit about Sweden. As soon as you are employed (doesn't matter who the employer is) you are given 5 weeks of vacation. I'm starting to see why their quality of life index is ranked higher than ours!
They have their priorities straight!

reply to post by buster2010

Conservatism isn't what is wrong with this country capitalism is whats wrong with this country. Conservatives like Ron Paul have alot of great ideas for this country. Capitalist however care nothing about this country all they care about is keeping the elite above everyone else. This country started going down hill when it decided to embrace the profit motive.

SIGHHhhh
I really wish liberals would figure out what capitalism really is.

The most elegant definition I have heard,is:
"Capitalism is a social system based on the principle of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.""

The misbegotten system the USA has been saddled with has nothing to do with capitalism. In capitalism an individual or group of individuals reinvest their WEALTH to produce more wealth (Good and Services) All of society benefits.

However as soon as "Fractional Reserve Banking" entered the picture, the system was no longer "Capitalism" it was legalized FRAUD.

Griffin called it A dead short across the productive element of society.

...I think it's time for a new definition of usury as follows: any interest on any loan of fiat money (meaning money made out of nothing). This example of a $100,000 home, as shocking as it is, producing $172,741 unearned interest, this is just a grain of sand in the Sahara. You have to multiply that by all the homes in America, by all of these hotels in America, all the high-rise buildings, all the factories, all the airplanes, automobiles, farm equipment, schools, everything, all the physical assets of America. You apply this same ratio and can you see it in your mind? We're talking about a river of unearned wealth that is so wide you can't even think of crossing it, flowing perpetually into the banking cartel. A dead short across the productive element of society. Money being taken from people who are working hard providing the material and the labor. They don't even know that this is being taken from them and it's this huge river of wealth flowing into the banking cartel. It's a staggering thought....

Now how can a true capitalist using real wealth compete with "this huge river of [unearned] wealth flowing into the banking cartel????" How can he compete against money printed out of thin air when he has to earn his wealth through his own labor??? He can not and that is why we have the Mega-Corporations that were formed BY THE BANKERS!!!! That is why we had leveraged buyouts that raped decent American companies of their wealth and transfered it to corporate raiders.

...Of mergers and acquisitions each costing $1 million or more, there were just 10 in 1970; in 1980, there were 94; in 1986, there were 346. A third of such deals in the 1980's were hostile. The 1980's also saw a wave of giant leveraged buyouts. Mergers, acquisitions and L.B.O.'s, which had accounted for less than 5 percent of the profits of Wall Street brokerage houses in 1978, ballooned into an estimated 50 percent of profits by 1988...

THROUGH ALL THIS, THE HISTORIC RELATIONSHIP between product and paper has been turned upside down. Investment bankers no longer think of themselves as working for the corporations with which they do business. These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers.... In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America....

THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's.

Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages. January 29, 1989 New York Times

reply to post by inforeal

There is a direct relationship between high suicides and conservative government

Only if you fiddle the statistics it would seem.

"How to Lie With Statistics" is a favorite of mine BTW

Commenter #2
...Interesting. There's not much of a standard deviation, though. I'm not sure it isn't just random distribution about the mean. And the series is short enough that I wouldn't imagine any real conclusion could be drawn...
The same research was written about in New Scientist, and Mary Shaw (one of the researchers) said that the link between suicide rates and ruling party ideology was "pure speculation". www.newscientist.com...

Still, I'd be really interested in seeing the data for other countries to see if the trend holds...

Commenter #6
....BTW, the conclusions of the study aren't confirmed by a check of cross-country data. Finland and Sweden both have more redistributive policies than the U.S. and both have higher suicide rates. There's over twice as many suicides in Finland as the U.S. Countries you can think of being more liberal than the U.S. (France, Japan, New Zealand, not to mention Australia) tend to have higher suicide rates. Actually, I was surprised to see the U.S. has such a low rate...

Political ideology is not the root of all problems in the U.S. It is corruption, idiocy and irationality. Liberalism and Conservatism are the same thing, once they lose rationality become idiotic and corrupt, then that is when you have the problems wich are occuring currently in the U.S.

I'm guessing this statement was made to illicit a response, and I think you have received many. Look, it is easy to paint conservatives as the bad guys when liberals or socialists pander to any needy group of people. However, take a look at Spain and Greece, and you will see the results of making too many empty promises.

Too many people allow emotions to clout their logical judgment. You cannot just give everything to everyone. The US Government tried this by demanding banks lend and give mortgages to low income individuals that ordinarily would not qualify. Did that work out well? No. Now they are making the same mistake and demanding health insurers give coverage to people who ordinarily would not qualify. How do you think this will turn out? Probably the same (followed by the government taking control of the healthcare industry for our "wellbeing.").

However, the principle of equality should be applied to all people and businesses including the wealthy and big corporations without exceptions. It is terrible the bailouts given by the government to large businesses, but this does not justify continuing illogical economic policies. Bad policy is bad policy regardless of who receives the benefits. Overall, everyone should be treated the same. Does not matter their skin color or their income bracket.

Wow this thread is a testament of how well the media dispenses propaganda. It is really scary how many people believe the nonsense the OP has stated. Last I heard taking something from someone without thier consent was called theft. I'd say that impacts freedom right to the heart! But I guess it's ok if they call it democratic socialism... Sigh!

Here is an article on the Swedish myth of being a socialist success:

Following a period of "extreme" free trade in the second half of the 19th century, the welfare state was created and greatly expanded. Not taking part in any of the world wars certainly helped, and propping up the welfare state was easy in the 1960s — there was plenty of wealth around to be expropriated [stolen] and "invested" in great systems of social engineering.

The saga, however, ended in the 1970s — but not, it seems, the myth. The international oil crisis forced the Swedish government into pure Keynesianism and the currency, consequently, was devalued frequently and extensively over about a decade. The following "happy 1980s" offered no solution to the bankrupt nation state, which financially imploded in the early 1990s as the international markets sobered up after a real-estate boom. This is when the government was forced, in economic terms, to cut down on spending and impose limits on benefits offered through the multitude of welfare systems.
"They stubbornly refuse to see anything but the evidently unsuccessful measures taken just before Sweden was forced onto the road to recovery."

But there's another truth about the Swedish economy that was only recently uncovered. There is now proof that Sweden, even in terms of official statistics, isn't that great and actually experienced no real economic growth (at least in terms of real jobs, which should be of obvious interest to Keynesians) for more than half a century.

In an article (unfortunately available in Swedish onlyDownload PDF) published in the Swedish Economics Association's journal Ekonomisk Debatt in 2009, Ratio Institute economists Bjuggren and Johansson show the sad truth. Relying on public data from the government agency Statistics Sweden ("SCB" in Swedish, an acronym standing for the Central Bureau of Statistics) and using a new classification system to denote ownership, they found that THERE HAS BEEN NO JOB CREATION IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR FROM 1950 TO 2005.

Read the whole article here: Stagnating Socialist Sweden

And here is a video Discussing the history of Sweden and how the socialist welfare state has impacted them not for the better but for the worse:



And the article the video discusses: The Sweden Myth

I am always amazed at the socialist advocates capacity to be completely oblivious to the obvious. Who builds those free houses, who labors for the materials, who grows the free food, who provides the free health care etc. etc??? The fact is others do that for the recipients so how are they free when the fruits of thier labors are taken from them by force and given to you and others? The socialist models of Europe and the US only survive at the expense of others through theft force and coercion period. If it is so wonderful make it voluntary and only those who wish to contribute may do so and those that don't are free to keep that which they labor for and decide how much and to whom they will be charitable with it and lets see how long it lasts.