What Happened To This Invention???

Originally posted by grindhouzer
Great... now they are gonna start charging us for water...(face palm)

Funny...
However, they don’t have to bother. It still takes some form of energy to turn water into “Brow’s Gas”. It’s subject to the law of conservation of energy, you cannot make energy out of nothing. That is why all these “Brown’s Gas” scams eventually fade away.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Same reason I stated above, the law of conservation of energy. It still takes energy to turn it from water into HHO.

reply to post by R3N3G4D3


On, or should I say off the track, a different track, you should, if you haven't already, read "Supernature" by Lyall Watson and also "The Secret Life of Plants" by Peter Tomkins and Christopher Bird, amazing stuff! I found them both life changing and now own two copies of both so that if I loan one to a friend I always have a copy to hand!

s&f by the way!

reply to post by defcon5

the law of conservation of energy. It still takes energy to turn it from water into HHO.

He appears to light the gas with a mere spark in the video. What do you think a spark plug is for?

EDIT:

It still takes some form of energy to turn water into “Brow’s Gas”.

Ok, oh, I misunderstood you. But surely it can't be that hard to create "browns gas"...how much harder can it be than deep sea oil drilling?

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
...how much harder can it be than deep sea oil drilling?

That’s the entire point of “Peak Oil”, meaning that we have reached the point where it costs more energy to produce a barrel or oil then the energy that the oil itself can provide. Right now its arguable whether we have reached peak, but many think we are becoming close.

From what I know about it, “Brown’s Gas” produces a lesser or equal amount of energy as what it takes to make it. So you are either losing energy or at best breaking even. It’s really only useful for its unique welding properties by those who work in certain fields.

yeah from the wiki article on brown gas

A "water torch" is a portable oxyhydrogen torch that combines a DC power supply and an electrolytic cell with a pressure gauge and flashback arrestor. Water is decomposed on-demand into oxyhydrogen, obviating the need for separate hydrogen and oxygen tanks. The original was designed in 1962 by William Rhodes and Raymond Henes of the Henes Manufacturing Co.[11] (now Arizona Hydrogen Manufacturing, Inc.) and marketed under the trade mark "Water Welder". A hypodermic needle was originally used for the torch tip.

Definitely not a new technology ..

Here is the most comprehensive site with information about this chap. Since 2009, his intellectual property has been bought twice. The first buyout seemed a little fishy and then was saved from bankruptcy in yet another highly suspect transaction involving a couple of high profile Hedge Funds (Goldman and JP Morgan were mentioned) associated with Markit Group. The trail of bread crumbs seems to fade away after that. Hmmm... wonder why...

As of 2009

Markit is now 70 per cent-owned by more than 15 worldwide banks, including Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and Merrill Lynch, some of which are thought to be pushing for a sale.

fuel-efficient-vehicles.org...

The patents are most likely buried in the vaults
www.markit.com...

Markit appears to be privately held now so its tough to confirm any links to the Big Banks mentioned above.

Interesting story

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by defcon5

 

the law of conservation of energy. It still takes energy to turn it from water into HHO.

He appears to light the gas with a mere spark in the video. What do you think a spark plug is for?

EDIT:

It still takes some form of energy to turn water into “Brow’s Gas”.

Ok, oh, I misunderstood you. But surely it can't be that hard to create "browns gas"...how much harder can it be than deep sea oil drilling?

edit on 12-5-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

 
You seem to be missing the point. It's a matter of energy imput/output ratios. If it requires more energy imput to produce a lower potential energy output, then the process is running at a net loss, and thus pointless.

They are probably bought by the Gov't as sort of said in the video itself, it happens to most good en breakthrough inventions. Like what happend to most of Tesla's work....

All these “Run your car on water” scams are doing nothing more then using the spare electrical energy from the alternator and generating “Brown’s Gas”, then injecting it back into your fuel lines. They may increase the fuel efficiency of your car because much of that electrical energy is just wasted anyway, but it also voids the warranty on your engine and increases the chance of it catching on fire.

All the folks who claim that the car companies have plans for cars that run on water locked away in vaults somewhere are full of it. I worked in Advanced Research and Development for one of the big three, and none of these engines work the way they are claimed. The few that do work at all, are both hazardous and maintenance nightmares.

For example if the container that generates the gas runs out of water… you have a fire. If the lines that inject the gas back into the fuel system are not 100% sealed and leak (and they will wear out like everything else in an engine)… you have a fire and explosion.

No automotive company was going to bother with this technology, and they are especially not going to warranty any car that uses it.


Here is bit on what mythbusters found with one of these HHO car kits:

www.mdwholesale.com...
The problem was that none of the products worked except for the idea of water electrolysis as we discussed here, but even then the amounts created by following plans purchased from several websites and companies only created a very small trickle (tiny bubbles of hydrogen and oxygen) and no where near the amount required to see even the slightest difference in gas mileage. According to the Myth Busters staff it would have required apparatus far too large to fit in the typical car, SUV or even 18 wheeler truck to get reasonable fuel economy savings and to make it worthwhile. So this also renders this idea of DIY H2O water, gas car kit conversion, or Brown’s gas, as some may refer to it, as utterly useless and not feasible with todays technology.

reply to post by defcon5

The energy required to generate the oxyhydrogen always exceeds the energy released by combusting it

Wikipedia does agree with you. What a let down, maybe there are more efficient ways to produce this gas. It seems like brilliant stuff.

reply to post by defcon5

and the few that do work are both hazardous and maintenance nightmares.

Wait, so there are engines that can convert water into a usable fuel? Of course there are going to be hazards, there always are with new technologies. That's why we work them out and use our ingenuity to fix or work around those problems. Our current gasoline engines are only so safe and powerful because they've been developed over a long period of time. I don't see the logic in giving up before it's even given a good go. I do believe a lot of these inventors and scientists get bought out. There are too many options and scientifically viable alternatives, yet we remain chained to oil, simply because oil drives economies.

reply to post by jibeho


Case closed. Thanks for looking into that jibeho. appreciate it. I wonder how much he actually made off of this? Seems like a source of energy that could end the use of fossil fuels in some cases.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Not exactly. What they do is take the water, and turn it into HHO (Brown’s Gas) using the spare electricity from the alternator, then run it back into the fuel line. There are TONS of kits out there for them, simply google “run car on water”. However I suggest reading the link I placed above as well before you invest in something you end up regretting.

This thread reminds me of Tom Ogles invention of vapor fuel intake system which enabled any car to travel up to 100 miles per gallon. Interesting story at the day of his invention Shell Oil offered Tom up to 30 million dollars on the spot but he refused because it was obvious that Shell would never let his invention see the sunlight. After Toms death from an apparent alcohol poisoning the invention blueprints went completely missing.

I wonder how many other inventions did "Big" industries locked up.

reply to post by defcon5


Ok, I see what you mean. It still relies on a gasoline engine anyway though, the systems you are referring to are not a self-sustained, they are a sort of hybrid? As in you can't just fill it up with water and you're on your way.

A google search for hho, hydroxy or Browns gas generators will yield hundreds of sites offering plans or completed units for sale designed to increase gas mileage by using electricity from the alternator to electrolysize water and inject gas into engine.

The problem with 100% water engines is the energy required to break hydrogen bonds using standard electrolysis is greater than energy released by recombination or burning hydrogen and oxygen.

A couple generators however seem to create much more gas than would be expected for a given amount of electricity. Until now, nobody could explain why. Not even any of the lucky experimenters understand why the odd couple generators seem to defy physics.

Maurice Cotterel explains what's happening in his new book "Future Science." hydrogen bonds are neither ionic nor covalent but gravitational. According to Cotterel gravity is a type of electromagnetic wave but it is like a corkscrew.

Antigravity can be created by attaching magnets to a disk that spins horizontally like a common CD drive. The magnets must be allowed to spin vertically like little propellers. That will generate antigravity and break the hydrogen bond with a small fraction of that used in electrolysis.

A few experiments by other scientists have proven the effect. Even NASA released last month results from an antigravity machine but they could not explain the mechanism!!!!

I tried to buy the book but amazon.UK says unavailable We are at the dawn of a new age in science. In five years we will laugh at the 20th century "fossil fuel" engines.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
Ok, I see what you mean. It still relies on a gasoline engine anyway though, the systems you are referring to are not a self-sustained, they are a sort of hybrid? As in you can't just fill it up with water and you're on your way.

The ones I have seen online all have a type of container that you add to the existing engine, lines that mate into the gas line, and wires that run from the electrical system. Also the water is not ordinary tap water, but has to either be “White Vinegar” or Distilled Water. If the container runs out of water/vinegar it can heat up and start a fire, and I have never seen one that had a level indicator to mount on the dashboard. That means you have to constantly be checking the fluid level and carry extra water/vinegar.

reply to post by defcon5


According to this website it is against the Magnuson-Moss Act to void a car warranty because you installed an aftermarket part.

Also they have tons of research papers and links to NASA and the SAE that seem to support the use of hydrogen injection for decreasing emissions and increasing fuel mileage.

From what I've read on this subject and the research I've done, hydrogen injection does work once you overcome the ECU and lean out the fuel/air ratio.

even if the car does not work, that torch is all kinds of fresh. i am an artist, and freshman year we had to take sculpture. but one of the upper classman had to use the blowtorch to rip apart this metal we found.

but i watched this guy with the blowtorch, and realized how dangerous it was. if they could make one that works with water???

it sucks this guy teamed up with big gov.

man if i invented something to change the world, i could care less about money. i would just put the plans on youtube and every other website i could think of, and say, 'lets switch to this!'

people are so freaking greedy. these inventors only think of money. it sucks.