Conspiracy regarding the cutting of social programs, etc

Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
I heartily encourage those who have found in Ron Paul a glimmer of hope in our political process to not blindly carry this hope over to Rand Paul. He is not his father and I believe he never will be. I cannot trust him like I do father.

I have no noticed this too. I think Rand Paul is far more willing to do the politically expedient thing than his father.
Maybe he figures he must if he has aspirations of running (and winning) a presidential election one day. The military industrial complex is all powerful. Tell them you're going to cut their budget in half and they would do anything to stop you from getting elected.

reply to post by infolurker

reply to post by Aristophrenia


You got it half right. Both parties are controlled by the Big Corps.

Dems and Repubs are the same except on a few social issues. Both are for Corporate entitlements, both are for massive growth in Government agencies. One just does it faster than the other.

Look at the Obama Administration (Remove the blinders and admit the truth)

Patriot Act, Wars (even more), Homeland security (now scanning machines?!) - Think about it, the WORST of the BUSH administration continues along with his #ty programs to boot. If you can't see that you are lying to yourself.

Bush/Obama, the smooth flow of control. Each side? Who created your separate sides? Step back, take off your blinders and take another look. These arguments back and forth, back and forth almost seem like mirror reflections of each other.

Lurker, I hope you don't mind my tagging onto your post here. I just thought it needed to be said again.

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by beezzer
Cutting funds DURING wars is just silly. Cutting funds after you win the wars makes sense. Cutting funds during a war would be akin to cutting gas usage during a road trip. Yeah, we cut funds! But we aren't where we want to be.

You're nuts if you think any of the current foreign wars the US is committed to are "winnable".

The opposite is true. They are designed to go on in perpetuity, lining the pockets of war profiteers.

You know they said the same thing about Vietnam and it ended. It's also been said about pretty much every war we've ever been in. They ended.

reply to post by beezzer


I just don't understand why people can't have a rational discussion about issues affecting this country without using each thread as an excuse to throw out the insult of the moment towards Obama or democrats.

I believe said people have nothing more to offer or they're afraid of being called out on their Tea Party crap.

reply to post by kro32


Of course. I'm talking about the thread in general.

I do want to thank the folks who've offered honest opinions/thoughts/facts.

Originally posted by kro32
You know they said the same thing about Vietnam and it ended. It's also been said about pretty much every war we've ever been in. They ended.

Vietnam ended without victory.

To suggest we shouldn't cut funds to the current wars until we win them is a sure way to ensure they go on forever, because there is no way to win.

And no, that hasn't been said about every war the US has ever been in.

Afghanistan and Iraq are a new breed. In past wars, there was a defined enemy. These new wars are about nation building.

reply to post by Schaden


Especially when the "enemy" is a product of the CIA. Didn't the U.S government recently admit that Bin Laden has been dead for years?

If so, then WHO have we been fighting there?

More people still need to wake up. They're still asleep, still thinking that terrorism is the reason, still drinking their kool-aid and cheering on the soldiers.

reply to post by The Sword


I'm a firm believer in much of the tea party "crap". I've always tried to be honest and realistic about many of the expectations and have tried on numerous occasions to defend deliberate mis-interpretations of our stance. Budgets issues included.

Im not sure if people understand the consequences of all the cuts to social programs. It's alright for some who will always have the "I'm alright Jack" attitude, to say that they want to return to a time when there were no entitlements and people can look after themselves. the problem is, that is not the case for everyone. I'm sure millions are reliant on some of these services for their very existence. Surely a rich society like America is capable of providing a safety net for its most vulnerable citizens. You may think your invincible and in a secure job, but you never know how safe your job is and how healthy you will remain. If you get cancer, all the personal responsibility in the world will not cure it.

Im not advocating big government but government with compassion for its most vulnerable. Yet it is the vulnerable who face the greatest effect of the cuts, why? because the vulnerable cant fight back and dont contribute to either parties coffers.

Remember the sick and unemployed could one day be you or one of your family.

Originally posted by The Sword
Reply to post by korathin

 

The U.S was founded by illegal immigrants! Who gave the English, Dutch and French permission to come here, enslave the population and wipe out entire native cultures?

You just don't #ing get it!

Why does such ignorance fester in this country? Are people really that stupid?

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Actually if you study anthropology the "natives" only became "natives" after they wiped out the first Homo Sapien Sapien natives that where Caucasians aka KENNEWICK MAN

kennewickman.net...

And I find it amusing you ask for civility with one breathe and defend genocidal butchers who murdered a peaceful people down to the last man, woman and child. My ancestors merely took back what is rightfully ours if you want to get into "native worship" nonsense.

And if you can't handle the reality of the situation(why there are those who want to trash America down to third world status so America would be a less tempting country to immigrate to) then maybe you should go back to the little kid's table.

----
To bring this on point, you can't have both an open society(accepts mass immigrants) and a society that has safety nets. Supply and demand. If you build it, leave the door open a lot will come for it. And then you have some do gooders with their wishy washy thinking that justify's it all and supports the process.

Then you get to a point where the safety nets are over extended to help the new arrivals(because bringing them up to speed consumes more resources then sustaining the previous status qua) and fail in their original purpose.

When if the country would of kept the doors closed it would have a guiding light effect and others would work to emulate that light in their own countries. Instead those that can leave, leaving behind lesser individuals to deal with corrupt governments and tyrants.

-----
Also forgot to add that since more resources are spent bringing up to speed the new arrivals, the previous down trodden that where supposed to be gradual uplifted get ignored(poor blacks and whites) and end up slipping backwards causing even more social disharmony, distrust, crime, hatred and decay.

the present attack on social programs including (mislabeled) 'Entitlements' is indeed a conspiracy..

the elites are wanting to make the inequity total and across the board...
consider that the CEOs on average make 400X the wage compensation than the average line worker...the Congress and the Administration want to bring that disparity to the social network also....

therefore all the groups & programs you mentioned; ssi,ssdi, medicare. medicare, SS, food stamps...
all are on the chopping block... which in effect takes the 45% of the population out of the equasion when the elites at the FED and Treas. determine the policies for acting on inflation or resources or dollar strength...
the only segment of the people they will need to be concerned with are the present upper-crust

An upper crust which includes the likes of the banking & financial sectors and the government workers that are protected by very strong unions...the blanket answer is the only portion of the masses that are relevant are those that have (since 2008) been the recipients of 'bonuses' and 'COLA' largesse, paid for under the yoke of tax bondage by the now defunct middle-class & poor of the country.

the only thing about this 'conspiracy' is that it is not secret or covert... the elites are brazen about the way they want to fashion the populations into the polar opposites -> the haves-&- the have nots


they use both the China model and the India models as templates for the restructuring of the USA

reply to post by beezzer


I do appreciate that.

I am holding back a lot of things that would offend the Tea Party folks just to try and have a logical conversation. Not perfect but better than calling y'all teatards, right?

reply to post by korathin

And if you can't handle the reality of the situation(why there are those who want to trash America down to third world status so America would be a less tempting country to immigrate to) then maybe you should go back to the little kid's table.

And maybe you should get your head out of your ass in regards to immigration.

C'mon, put on your uniform and start shining those #-kickers. Hell, if you only have a white sheet, that'll do!

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Most Americans are selfish and don't want to provide this safety net.

Cutting programs would work if we had the Japanese attitude towards our elders (the first born kids take care of the elders). Unfortunately, we don't. A lot of our elders end up in nursing homes, etc with very little money.

I bet the Tea Party hasn't stopped to think about how much the elderly depend on social security. My grandmother would not be able to live on her own in her advanced age without social security and other programs.

Originally posted by kro32


Not true at all. My nephew just went in the service in August so the constant turnover probably prevents this. I doubt if most of the soldiers from 10 years ago are still over there.

He is probably still brainwashed from bootcamp

Give him 2 two years and see what he has to say

reply to post by The Sword

Teatards



I've been called worse, even here on ATS.
But yes, it is nice to have a civilized debate on the issues.

My stance has always been personal responsibility. Sure, I've put in social security since 1976. Am I going to see it? Am I expecting it? Am I planning on it?

To all three, I say no.

Same with medicaid/care. I won't even plan on it. Most docs, if you just sat down with them, would work on a variety of plans, some legal, some outside the norm.

I bet the Tea Party hasn't stopped to think about how much the elderly depend on social security. My grandmother would not be able to live on her own in her advanced age without social security and other programs.

reply to post by The Sword


This is what I was saying about the "I'm alright jack" attitude of those displayed by some ATS members, The elderly have a right to these programs as they have paid for them for their whole lives, they are the ones who fought the wars and built America making the country what it is today, yet they are viewed as leeches by some people.

reply to post by beezzer


Beezer, not everyone is as intelligent as you and dont have the personal responsibilities you are graced with. You cant make people take on responsibility by removing things that keep people alive, what you end up with is a survival of the fittest/wealthiest situation, where only those with money can cure their illness's and live a comfortable retirement.

Just because you have personal responsibility , it does not make you immune to illness or the possibilites of losing employment.

reply to post by HmmmmmmDJK


Someone needs to read more. Do you even know what communism is? Because it is quite obvious you don't. Seriously, stop trying to call Democrats communist if you don't even know the meaning of the term. It just makes you seem stupi....errr ignorant. Aren't we suppose to deny ignorance?

And I could see this as a conspiracy to make the rich even richer. Privatize what entitlements do and make even more profits for the insurance and health care industries! Oh and all of the tax breaks will pay for themselves when we close loopholes. Oh but which loopholes do they want to close?

That's right, the Tea Party hasn't said! But they do know they want to go from a 35% tax to 25% tax....hmm you know what cut you want to make but you don't know how to fund those cuts?

The Tea Party is evil. It is just a bunch of wealthy people making false promises to supporters about getting out of wars and making the government smaller, when in reality all they want is an economy and nation that benefits corporations and elites. What a joke.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I'm no one special. But what you have to realise is that to remain dependent is a fate far wose than anything else you might imagine. It is a terrible thing to have ones freedoms takn away.

It'ss even worse when the freedoms are vouluntarily given up.