Obama Just Said that 'Welfare' Made This Country Great...While Trying to Quote Lincoln...

reply to post by fredvcall


There are plenty of democratic capitalist countries with no social services. Lagos is an excellent example! We do not keep people out of the dirt because it is the humane thing to do, we do it to maintain a certain standard of living for us all. They will bring us all down with shanty towns/Tin Cities an Americans will starve on the streets etc. Attacks on medicare, medicaid and our social services are direct attacks upon our living standards.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OBAMA!

These is fighting words friend! I will fight and die is need be to defend the American way of life I hold so dear, many millions will fight as well! If its war you want just tread a little further!

Originally posted by beezzer
No surprise with the speech.
Raise taxes, so more jobs can be lost. No reduction in spending. So we can go into the tank quicker.

Grandstanding and pretending is fun for you a?

There are reductions in spending already in place in the coming budget, do you get off on lying?

The tactic that is employed is framing everything FAR right and pulling everyone in that direction when they
try to create a settlement

The other tactic is simple too, cut income, which creates deeper deficits and then pretend you did not cut the income.

Originally posted by fredvcall
It's the kind of welfare where you are a babysitter for someone you don't know. That someone you don't know whom you are babysitting might be a drug addict. They might be having their fourteenth baby with never having had a job. They might not even be citizens of the United States who are having their fourteen babies at your babysitting expense.

....

Oh, yeah. One more thing. Most of these welfare liberal socialists really don't care if all the whales in the ocean are killed. All they want is their next free paycheck.

That's a real great string of ad-hominem attacks you got going there. Honestly, you have any real information based on actual data that you would like to share with us? "Liberal Socialists don't care about whales, only paychecks". Listening to you makes it sounds like teachers, cops and firefighters are a bunch of greedy union bastards that wrecked the economy, while Wall Street bankers are saints that are only looking out for the good of the country. Here I have some data for you.

Using your logic, this would make countries like Sweden and France such "horrible" places to live as they have some of the strongest public safety nets in that "evil bastion of socialism": Europe. Let's take Sweden for example, often considered one of the "most liberal" and most "socialist" country by "American" standards.

Average working hours per week
United States – 46.0
Sweden — 39.9

Unemployment Rate
United States – 8.8
Sweden — 7.9

Public Debt
U.S. 93% of GDP (Jan 2011)
Public debt 43.2% of GDP (2009 est.)

GDP per capita (world bank 2010)
Sweden - 48,875
U.S. - 47,284

Population below poverty
Sweden - 7.5%
U.S. - 14%

Infant morality rate
Sweden - 2.74
U.S. 6.9

Gini coefficient (measure of inequality UN r/p 10%)
Sweden - 6.2
U.S. - 15.9
(just for reference Uganda is 16.6, Kenya is 13.6, Japan is 4.5, and France is 9.1)

World Health Care Rankings
Sweden - 23
U.S. - 37

Lets see, some other places that don't have social safety net programs, health care or retirement benefits, like Pakistan, African countries...are obviously far superior.

Just keep calling everything "evil socialist welfare liberal gobble-d-gook" and you eventually people will just accept it as "bad" because everyone's afraid of the big bad scary boogie man.

You know, I'd be perfectly happy to let you keep all "your tax dollars" if types like you would at the same time stop driving on public roads, stop using the education system, the courts, the police&fire departments, public airports, stop watching TV/listening to radio and using public airwaves, stop using any hospital/clinics that take public money, don't use any medication that was discovered using government funds/subsidies, don't eat anything that comes from a farm that takes government subsidies (good luck with that), don't buy anything or use the services of any company or corporation that benefits from government subsidies or bailouts. Again, I'd be more than happy to let you keep all your money...But until that happens, you are, simply put, a bunch of hypocrites...since modern democracies are ALL hybrids of capitalism and socialism, and you have, all your life, been benefiting from this system. So if it's really so evil, then put your money where your mouth is and go live in a country that is more in line with your corporatist philosophies, where everything is privatized and there is hardly a central government...like I said, there's a bunch of African countries that would be more in line with this.

Although, I seriously wonder I people like you even know what the term "socialist" means, as the vast majority seem to simply use it as a catch phrase for anything that is not of their own tribalistic political view point. Because things like "family" structures, local communities, are by nature "socialist".

Socialism is an economic and political theory advocating public or common ownership and cooperative management of the means of production and allocation of resources.[1][2][3] A socialist society is organized on the basis of relatively equal power-relations, self-management, dispersed decision-making (adhocracy) and a reduction or elimination of hierarchical and bureaucratic forms of administration and governance, the extent of which varies in different types of socialism.[4][5] This ranges from the establishment of cooperative management structures to the abolition of all hierarchical structures in favor of free association.

As an economic system, socialism is the direct allocation of capital goods (means of production) to meet economic demands so that production is oriented toward use and accounting is based on some physical magnitude, such as physical quantities or a direct measure of labour time.[6][7] Goods and services for consumption are distributed through markets, and distribution of income is based on the principle of individual merit/individual contribution

Source

Wow, that last sentence is a real doozy...how horrible it must be to live in a society where "goods and services are distributed through markets, and distribution of income is based on the principle of individual merit/contribution!" Wow! What a concept! Furthermore, I wonder if the t-party/new-gop/new-democratic parties even realize that the type of economic system that they all advocate is essentially the same, regardless of the party...It's what the rest of the world calls "neo-liberal"...and it's been the basis for practically all the gov't policies over the past 30 years, whether democrat or republican, namely:
-privatization of resources,
-things like NAFTA & other "free-trade" agreements,
-tax cuts including large tax breaks for the wealthy & corporations
-deregulation (laizzez faire philosophy - OMG! is that a French word! it must be an evil socialist!)
-elimination of public programs (like health care, public education, social security, etc.)

Frankly, I sense that you are so wrapped up in your own dogma to even see the writing on the wall. I can post a myriad of examples of why you are wrong about so called "entitlement" programs and "welfare"...Since people like you seem to have no clue about what they are, and seem to think that it's a program simply so lazy people can have a bunch of kids and not be supported.

For anyone who feels like "denying ignorance" "welfare" is not called "welfare". It's called "workfare" or "work for welfare" and people take jobs in order to get their benefits. They work typically 20 hours a week plus 15 in job training for (in my state) $63 dollars a week (you do the math, that's a little over 3 dollars an hour wages). They also typically receive food stamps at about $173-200 per month for an individual. There is also a limit on how long you can receive benefits...there is a cap, once you exceed it, that's it. The idea that a woman can go onto welfare and indefinitely keep having babies is a myth, Reagan made up the "welfare queen" story, she was never a real person (unfortunately though, so many people today still believe this blatant lie)...like I said, you do the math, one cannot support one-self on $63 a week...why anyone would "want" to be on welfare and work 35 hours a week for a mere $63 dollars is insane, and that's the point, it's a last resort for people who have nothing else to turn to and can't find a job...saying people purposely go on welfare because they are lazy and want a check is like saying people purposefully get arrested so they can go to jail in order to have shelter and get fed. It's insane. No one does that...but if you believe that, then, again, you are brainwashed by your own dogma. And also, this idea that there is rampant welfare fraud and people who game the system...every study ever done has shown fraud to be minimal...furthermore, it's actually the vendor who commit 93% of the fraud, not the applicant. And before you turn around and say "well, I still don't want to pay for someone else"...consider the entire reason these programs were implemented. To reduce poverty and get people back on their feet so they can be contributing members of society. So it's really a question of morality...and whether or not you think it is morally acceptable for a first world democratic country to leave it's poor, "fallen on hard times", sick, frail, elderly, disabled, people etc. to just rot and die on the streets. The more and more I hear what some people have to say, the more and more I find that this may be true, that there may be a section of the population that is completely self absorbed and literally could not give a flying bleep if other american citizens are sick, suffering, hungry, homeless, etc. whether they be the elderly, handicapped, unemployed, veterans (vets make up much of the homeless population), or single mothers and young children. Sad. Sad. Sad.

Source Source Source

reply to post by Janky Red


Obama raised government spending by 30 percent his first year. So cutting it by 1 percent is not a reduction. It is still an over-all increase of 29 percent. The progressive policy that Obama and folks like yourself want WILL fundamentally change what America looks like.

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical


Totally agree. The power to print money needs to be returned to the people...other wise we are all just a bunch of wage slaves for corporatocracy/PTB. I suggest anyone on ATS interested in monetary policy and how this all relates watch the documentary "The Money Masters" (website)

You can watch the documentary here:
topdocumentaryfilms.com...

reply to post by Whereweheaded


Gee, 20 mil to Pakistan so they can imbibe in MKULTRA Sesame Street! Or is it a payoff so they stop getting mad at us over those drones? And POTUS and Congress cant find anything besides Social Security to cut and they are out fearmongering Senior Citizens?

Originally posted by fredvcall
.

well what happens with people like you is let your self be infected with the modern offspring
of slave ownership mentality. Perhaps you were born with this mentality, I am not sure,
many fools of the past defended the atrocities of the crown and their economic domination
over most people in the realm. Maybe to you creating a modern equivalent makes you
excited, Authoritarian neocons have an easy job, which is the presentation of a single faceted
song and dance. People do not put up with governments that leave the people behind, so if you succeed
in creating a theocratic, American reich, we will rise up against you. Americans will ensure that our grandparents are not crushed to service corporate greed, you will lose, when you are dead the specifics of your simian mentality
will die with you.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Obama raised government spending by 30 percent his first year. So cutting it by 1 percent is not a reduction. It is still an over-all increase of 29 percent. The progressive policy that Obama and folks like yourself want WILL fundamentally change what America looks like.

Obama is not following any "progressive" policy. He is what the rest of the world would call a "neo-liberal" (in the U.S. the term neo-con is often used, but they are essentially the same thing as far as domestic, economic and foreign policy goes) I actually think the term "corporatist" is a closer fit. He is continuing the same policies as Bush. Why some people have this notion that he is some sort of, "progressive", "socialist", "liberal" etc. is beyond me (do they even know what the terms mean???). Wake up and see the writing on the wall, the political dialogue in this country has been so corrupted, so distorted, so far shifted into the realm of "crazy", that people can't even see simple facts and reality for what they are. Democrats and Republican = the same thing...party for rich corporate elite that could give a rats #@$ about you, me, or any other average American.

reply to post by meeneecat


Apparently, you along with POTUS and his commie friends did not learn the lesson of the failures of the Soviet Union in their experiment with centralization of the means of production. Or you are just too young to remember stories of those long bread lines...Is Pete Seeger your hero by the way?

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Obama raised government spending by 30 percent his first year. So cutting it by 1 percent is not a reduction. It is still an over-all increase of 29 percent. The progressive policy that Obama and folks like yourself want WILL fundamentally change what America looks like.

Ya, in an attempt to recessitate a DOW that was near 8,000

It was above 12,000 today, current tax rate is lower than most republican presidencies in the last 60 years, come on stop lying....

Don't you get tired of pretending? It's like you reckon we were all born yesterday, you wouldn't do this face to face cause you would look like a fool, your very guts would feel ashamed for the make believe act.

Social Security and Medicare were around for decades in a healthy economy, you have nothing of substance

The GOP engineered an economic crash
Then they used the backlash and fear to press through their political whims

Originally posted by meeneecat

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Obama raised government spending by 30 percent his first year. So cutting it by 1 percent is not a reduction. It is still an over-all increase of 29 percent. The progressive policy that Obama and folks like yourself want WILL fundamentally change what America looks like.

Obama is not following any "progressive" policy. He is what the rest of the world would call a "neo-liberal" (in the U.S. the term neo-con is often used, but they are essentially the same thing as far as domestic, economic and foreign policy goes) I actually think the term "corporatist" is a closer fit. He is continuing the same policies as Bush. Why some people have this notion that he is some sort of, "progressive", "socialist", "liberal" etc. is beyond me (do they even know what the terms mean???). Wake up and see the writing on the wall, the political dialogue in this country has been so corrupted, so distorted, so far shifted into the realm of "crazy", that people can't even see simple facts and reality for what they are. Democrats and Republican = the same thing...party for rich corporate elite that could give a rats #@$ about you, me, or any other average American.

I think there are a great many of people who are overtly for corporatism
Beezzar for example...

This dialogue has digressed, the point of the government for the Reds here is to champion the corporations,
no bones about it, with intent, in the open...

This distortion has occurred because the entire narrative is being driven by false claims and fake
Intentions. I am not an agent of actual insanity, these corporate foot soldiers are the agents,
I am an insurgent, an astute objective observer could recognize this wonderful campaign waged by
the Fascistas.

I am actually middle of the road, I have grown that way with time, alienation makes me opposition to
the corporatists.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by meeneecat

 

Apparently, you along with POTUS and his commie friends did not learn the lesson of the failures of the Soviet Union in their experiment with centralization of the means of production. Or you are just too young to remember stories of those long bread lines...Is Pete Seeger your hero by the way?

What the $#^* does this even mean? You think I am a communist? Okay. I think you advocate of child abuse because you want no market controls and think laizzez faire economics solves all. Is Pinochet your hero?

Oh and you are an apologist for rich wealthy bankers, who probably also use lots of coc aine, so you are also pro-druggie...apparently you don't remember the crime ridden drug addled 80's. See. I can use your "logic" too.

And by the way, my girlfriend is from Russia, and grew up in poverty there...so don't tell me what I do and don't know about "bread lines". pfft. Interestingly enough, even though she is a U.S. citizen, she goes back home to Russia for health care because she can get just a good quality services for cheaper price there (even after buying a plane ticket!)

So, do you have anything substantive to say about anything I posted? You know, some facts, or evidence...not just wild assertions about "evil commie socialists" and other crack-pot theories?

reply to post by Janky Red


Totally agree. It's why I think it's so funny when people call me an "evil commie socialist liberal clown". I've actually also had democrats call me "nutter t-party crazy" for my criticism of Obama. So go figure...now I'm on both sides of the "crazy coin"! I actually can't stand Obama or his policies. (I didn't vote for him either...I voted 3rd party) I'm a registered independent, and refuse to vote for either of the criminally controlled parties...I did once a while back and learned my lesson. I just don't understand how some people can be so "stuck" in their own political tribalism, that they completely close off their mind to reality.

Although I will cede one thing to Bush, at least he was entertaining to watch with all this "isms". "Nuclear"..."fool me once...don't fool me again"

In the 50’s when the TV dinner had become an absolute hit. Instant cake mixes were introduced, but they just wouldn’t sell. One major company hired some psychoanalysts and they suggested that they remake the directions to include the addition of an egg. For whatever reason the cake mixes became an instant hit and best seller.

I ask you to consider what may have been behind the promotion and ultimate election of a black man with a Muslim name. Consider that attacks upon our social services are direct attacks upon our living standards. Consider the loss of our rights under Bush. I know what the Unions have become, but they exercise core American freedoms. The right to assemble to seek reproach to their grievances. Attack these liberties and you cut your own throat! I do not agree with what the KKK has to say, but I must respect their right to say it. Just as I do not support what the Unions do, I must support their right to do it in the interest of freedom.

Please do not tolerate attacks upon our living standards, or further attacks upon our liberties and freedoms!

We have forgotten the prerequisites for freedom. Americans are very close to losing their constitutional system and civil liberties. Dictatorships seldom appear full-fledged but emerge piecemeal. It is not something to be taken lightly!

I have never seen so many Americans ready to cut their own throats!

The old adage should read Those who would give up ESSENTIAL LIBERTY to purchase SAFETY, will have neither LIBERTY or SAFETY.

Dear God people! Our social services are there to maintain a high quality of life for all Americans. 90%+ of the seniors in this country are dependent upon Medicare and or Medicaid. That said many of our seniors would rather die than vote for a black man.

Our social services are not evil, they are not communist, they are directly responsible for the quality of life we all enjoy.

Please consider that an agenda of engineered concent is at play. Please do not let America go without a fight!

Does Obama really believe people are happy on welfare? Dear Lord, this man has everyone but his bankster friends up a s#t creek and no paddle.

This country is at a serious precipice, and who takes the WH next is going to make or break if we all don't fight against the criminals as a collective. We have to fight these evil people together. Otherwise I guess we just keep listening to our ipods and play games.

WOW!!

Eye opening thread...!!

And whereweheading ( or whatever..) chill dude, your losing as it is and now your coming across as nasty too !!

Why you Americans dont want to help one another whilst your countries in such a mess is highlighting how selfish sooo many of you on here are....

The same crowd should be asking why the govt is increasing its military budget whilst slashing health care and welfare, surely a more important question??

Originally posted by fredvcall
It's the kind of welfare where you are a babysitter for someone you don't know. That someone you don't know whom you are babysitting might be a drug addict. They might be having their fourteenth baby with never having had a job. They might not even be citizens of the United States who are having their fourteen babies at your babysitting expense.

Nope. I know who I am babysitting and it is BP, GE, BOA, etc. You worry about that drug addict or that girl with too many babies though. Obviously that is the big fish.

The difference between babysitting welfare liberal socialists and what you call 'corporate welfare for oil companies' is that these people who you are babysitting, they can't make your automobile run. They won't even push your automobile along a declivitous slope. They can't light your home. Not even a tiny flourescent light by which you can read a book. They can't make your computer run. Your television will sit there dark if you rely on them to provide anything in return for all the money you spend on them. All that these welfare liberals socialists can do is take your hard earned money, without even thanking you, then ask for more. While serving no good purpose to the maintenance of either your family or your country.

Sorry but nothing you wrote is actually all that accurate. It is just a bunch of oil company backside kissing. Glad to see who your heros are. The power companies and oil companies do all those things just fine with the profits they make. They do not need corporate welfare to make any of that happen or make it affordable. Apparently you have no idea whay kind of profits they make all while collecting tax subsidies. Perhaps you should look into that.

While you are babysitting these socialists, they might even burglarize your home. Why? Because they feel entitled to 'spread your wealth.' Which means they might sell your stolen articles in a pawn shop that serves as a fence for stolen goods. Not only have they burglarized your home, you still have to babysit them and give them more of your money that you might otherwise use on your family. Like sending your children to a good school.

Name calling and fear mongering devoid of facts kind of floats right past me. Look at your post go!

After all of this done to you, these welfare liberal socialists want you to apologize for any sins they say that you have committed against them. Even though you have never met them. You pay and pay and pay for them, but you receive no goods and services. Very much unlike if you purchase gasoline, you can drive your automobile to the store to purcahse food and clothing. If you have any money left after babysitting those who don't believe they have to work. And why should they work? You and I are supporting them.

Oh, yeah. One more thing. Most of these welfare liberal socialists really don't care if all the whales in the ocean are killed. All they want is their next free paycheck.

Your post would have been greatly helped by something factual and a well thought out point to go with it. The name calling and derision reads quite empty.

Originally posted by fredvcall
What kind of person would study to be poor? Except those on welfare who are raking in big bucks.

That is the most interesting sentence I have ever read. People study to be poor so they can get on welfare to rake in big bucks???? Um what? If they are raking in big bucks, they what happened to them studying to be poor? If welfare makes people rich, why are we not all giving up our homes, cars, healthcare to go live in a shelter and get rich like them?

Originally posted by beezzer
No surprise with the speech.
Raise taxes, so more jobs can be lost. No reduction in spending. So we can go into the tank quicker.

If you can enumerate for us all the jobs created in the last decade thanks to the Bush tax cuts you will be the hero of the day. Otherwise your argument fails thanks to the fact that we have been trying it for the last 10 years and it has not worked.

Sounds like a lot of fans of the Ryan plan around here. That would be the plan authored by the same brainiacs that promised the Bush tax cuts would lead to huge job growth by 2010. How are those Bush tax cuts working out for ya?

What is the next argument you are all preparing? "Why should companies have to pay people more than a dollar a week when that will just force them to go overseas where they can have slave labor."

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Janky Red

 

Obama raised government spending by 30 percent his first year. So cutting it by 1 percent is not a reduction. It is still an over-all increase of 29 percent. The progressive policy that Obama and folks like yourself want WILL fundamentally change what America looks like.

How much are your precious Republicans trying to cut again? Can you toss that number up for us, please?

Then maybe someone can explain why everything that came from the Democratically controlled house was the fault of the Democrats in the house but anything that comes from the Republican controlled house is now Obama's fault. How honest that seems.