My first issues with the Bible.

Originally posted by DuceizBack

Originally posted by PoorFool
I also think God/Jesus could be an alien.

For example,

2 Peter 3:8—‘one day is like a thousand years’

It's well known that traveling at or near the speed or light significantly "slows down" time for the traveler.

Lmaooo this site is full of nut jobs I swear
second line.

got a better explanation?

Originally posted by kid_cudi
I have no isues with the bible because I believe! If u just believe you'll never have to question anything. And the bible is analogies and stories and real stories all put into one book. So suck it up and deal with it!

And btw IM CATHOLIC

edit on 21-3-2011 by kid_cudi because: (no reason given)

You say if you just believe,youll never have to question anything.I think you are on the wrong website.The whole purpose here is to question things to find out the truth.You are a great candidate for any cult,including the catholic religion.That is cult mentality,dont question anything,just believe.Any truthful movement or organization encourages questioning.You are under subliminal hypnosis.It is not a good thing.

First off, the Book of Genesis is the basis of all three major religions. (Christianity, Judaism and IsIam) There are some differences in the Quran, but regarding the passages you listed, I believe the Quran accepts the same belief. Mainly that God created Adam in his image and the Earth and all of it's creatures are for Adam to have dominion over.

I believe a lot of Christians will argue that "our" image means God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. The holy trinity.

Here's the thing. I'm not going to speculate that "our" means aliens. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm open minded, but I haven't seen enough evidence to support that theory. And yes, I am aware of a lot of the ancient alien theories.

I'm have a more simplistic theory.

It was written by man, a long, long time ago. And has more than likely gone through many changes over the years. (hence the separation of Islam and Judaism) As far as Christianity goes, the Bible was put together several hundred years after Jesus and now has hundreds of different interpretations.

It seems pretty obvious to me that is has been used as a tool for control for thousands of years. If you have an answer as to how we got here and what our purpose is, you can keep the population from thinking for themselves. People are much easier to manipulate when they don't think for themselves. And when you add a bunch of fear to it, it makes it even more powerful.

These passages you pointed out are so key because they are a fundamental belief in our society whether you are religious or not. The idea that Adam (humans) is given DOMINION over the earth and all of its creatures gives Adam the right of OWNERSHIP. Do with the Earth, the animals and, in some cases, women what you please.

Now, if you are a free thinker, you don't have to believe this. You are free to believe things like, I came from the earth, but in no way do I have dominion or "right" of ownership. I must respect the Earth and its creatures and live in harmony with it.

It's kind of hard to live in harmony with something that you believe to have dominion over. This, IMO, is what TPTB don't want us to realize. (Ironic huh? They created the Bible to distract us from the TRUTH.) Because we might realize that we are all one and must live in harmony. Make no mistake, the Book of Genesis cares nothing about the Earth and its creatures. And I think society reflects that.

Another important fundamental thing that you didn't point out, but I believe is extremely important, is the idea of sin. When Adam committed the original sin, he passes that onto all of his generations. So everyone is BORN with sin. This is another fundamental belief today. We must be redeemed because we have sin.

Well, again, if you are a free thinker, you don't have to believe that. You can believe that "sin" or negative human behavior is learned, as opposed to inherent. And science is really telling us now that one's ENVIRONMENT has more to do with behavior than genes. It's not one or the other, but environment seems to play a bigger role in human behavior and development. This is why you can take ANY baby and place that baby in a hate filled environment and a hate filled adult will develop. On the other hand you can take that same baby, place it in a loving, compassionate home and you will have a loving and compassionate adult.

It's a such an important belief in society because if you believe that someone is inherently born with sin, the environment doesn't matter and there should be no responsibility on anyone to help change the environment. Only God can change it, not man.

So basically, if you believe the Book of Genesis, there's no need to take care of the earth and its creatures and no need to take any responsibility for the "sin" in the world. Morality is not inherent. Sin is. We are not one, THEY are the sinners and you are going to heaven. You can always pray for them though.

reply to post by WJjeeper


In order for someting to evolve, the fittest must survive, and the weakest will die, its known as survival of the fittest
if you take two of one breed, such as bear, and put them in two different environments, one will survive and one will not;
For instance a black bear could not find food in the icy conditions of the poles because it would be easily seen and would die, therefore the white polar bear would become the more popular type in tha area untill all the brown bears are dead and gone, this is not evolution, this is natural selection and cannot change the DNA further than that of a bears.

This is how evolution must happen through the death of the weaker type.

reply to post by ChaosComplex


Creatures elsewhere were also created by God.
Our Image means God and his Angels

reply to post by Disillusioned_Youth
That's the point. You're not supposed to need tangible evidence - that's why it's mentioned in the book that even those with tangible evidence didn't believe. Do you think we'd be any different? Not everyone's meant to believe though and there's no helping that. Nor is there a problem with it.

reply to post by thegiftbearer
I really liked your post Though I prefer translations that use 'logos' instead of 'word,' simply because helps with the 'tree of knowledge' situation. Because if looked at that way, then God gave Adam and Eve a certain amount of logic/knowledge appropriate for them and they were sinless. The Tree of Knowledge, however... well, let's look at it this way. It's like giving a 5 year old knowledge of sex and child birth. Does it make sense to give it to them that early? What good would it be to them (what good was it for Adam and Eve to be ashamed of their nakedness)? Yet the earlier children are exposed to such things, the more likely they are to sin earlier, or even be hurt mentally by it. Same applies in that explanation: the tree of knowledge was information we weren't ready for. And so humans were punished for disobedience.

I think there's another post out there talking about how the Bible's all about 'obeying' but in the above situation, there was no Bible, and people still didn't obey, did they?

Someone also pointed out on here: The first problem of the bible and religion is that it indoctrinates children who can't think for themselves and chose right from wrong and thats not right, thats the job of the parents and not the job of a simple priest.

Which is true. I benefitted more from not knowing/reading the Bible or praying half the time. My parents never stuffed it down our throats (had lots of siblings too) and we were never made to go to church, yet I always just 'knew' God was. It was natural. I didn't have to ask about it or find out about it. I felt it. As for His word, it's something better discovered on one's own, which makes it more beneficial and it means so much more that way.

i believe those first verses are in reference to reproduction. god made males/females of each species and they reproduced offspring after their kind, and i believe the latter reference refers to gods omnipotence.

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
The koran is the first 5 books of the bible, The rest is ishmaels line and genelogy, He still bore sacrifice traditions, But took on a vengeful view of God, The koran is a perfect example of satan taking something so pure originally and turning into a wicked tool against GOD.
The is only one God, and he is jesus.

Sorry to bring this post up from so far behind lol Just wondering what makes you say that the Quran's used as a wicked tool against God (not objecting to it, but curious about your reasoning behind it, is all).

Originally posted by DrCarter
It was bound to happen eventually, oh well. This whole freaking out when someone has different opinions than you is sickening. The question was asked how an intelligent person could believe that we evolved from monkeys or some such, well here is a few for you. How can you believe a man lived inside a magic fish (Answer: Because your god said so), In all of the vast universe we where so lucky as to have god knock up a woman with himself so that he could die, for us, so that we can hang out with him for eternity when we die, and if we don't believe that we get to be tormented by devils and fire and blah blah blah because what he loves us and wants us to behave. Why do you believe that, oh a book supposedly written by men who heard gods voice told you, or some guy who asks for ten percent of your wages once a month because god can't do finances. I could go on and on, but I will simply finish with every person is entitled to their opinion, if you do not like it simply ignore and move on. If you choose to stick around and freak out some more so be it, like with everyone else here that is your right, just keep in mind we don't all subscribe to the same source as you.

Man lived inside a magic fish? - Well think about who's writing these transcripts, men in robs who've never seen a car before let alone a SUBMARINE. How is it so hard to keep their descriptions in perspective.

God knocked up a women with himself so he could die for us? - For starters its Gods only son not God himself. There is a difference between Jesus, the Lord, and God his father. That aside, ever heard of ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION? Once again, men in robes. How is it so hard to believe GOD was capable of sending out a crew of angels to perform a little surgury? If we can today why couldn't our creator?

He died for us so we can live with him for eternity after we die? - Well I guess I can start out by saying, we are beasts, animals. It is not us who lives for eternity, but our spirits, our souls. We would no longer be of a physical realm, but a spiritual realm. At least that's my understanding of it. Its completely your choice to believe that or not. I have seen far and away more proof of Gods word than I have seen proof of its falsehood.

Simply taking the time to do some bible study and research isn't so hard is it? You can look through out the bible and find tons of amazing descriptions of advanced technology, ufos(chariots of fire in the sky, the famous wheel within a wheel, etc.), and teachings that still hold true to this day. Call the bible what you want, but im a 100% firm believer and with everything I've experienced spiritually, my faith only gets stronger with time.

reply to post by ChaosComplex


I have to ran across this idea of open mind, but i did find a lot of information to feed my thoughts on in a book that is 30+ years old and has withstood the test of time. look at the book chariots of gods by eric von danikan. he does not bash the bible but he looks at all cultures of religion and the possibility of mankind having communication to another alien i guess, and with the basically imbreeding with man and the greater gods. Which he proves that in almost every religion god decended to earth and moved around in a ring in side of another ring which was bright as fire. He pulls out key points in religion where the gods breeded with man and how egypt and mayans had state of the art technologies that we to this day do not have the technology to do what they did or completed. If you have any intrest of open minded thoughts check it out, He has several books out which i read but the best one that he wrote in my opinion is the chariots of god.

Originally posted by Jim Scott

Originally posted by ChaosComplex
reply to post by InnerstellarOne

 

If they "fell" to Earth, what made this happen? Why the fall from high in the sky? Is heaven a physical place? If heaven is a place only able to be experienced after death, then it must exist in a way that we can't understand yet. That still doesn't explain how "beings" can "fall" to Earth from a place that doesn't even exist on the same plane.

Thanks for the question. Hope all this is helping. Fall could mean fall from grace. As we know, the angels and man were created around the same time, since nothing existed prior to the 6 day creation. Satan and the angels were removed from heaven because they rebelled, so it goes. What we do see is Satan trying to destroy God's creation and salvation of man...first in Eve, then in Cain, and ultimately in the crucifixion. However, since the crucifixion was finished successfully without interruption from Satan, we have all won. Thank God (meant as an expletive, not as a suggestion).

That's as plausable as anything. How about the usage, "He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."? Cast out of the plane of spirit, the inner reality, and into the earth, or outward into the plane of matter and expressly earth. When we meditate, we go within don't we? Not up. When people think of God, they often look up in the skies as if He is a person up there somewhere, because we can't "see" Him. But He is within, and in every particle, every atom, every molecule. So, I interepret falling, or falling from grace, or casting out, as falling from the Inner plane to the material. Metaphysicians know there are levels of density to the material plane.
If we are to truly follow in Jesus' footsteps, then it follows we must walk the 15 Stations of the Cross, and experience the crucifixion of the ego, the resurrection,and finally the ascension back to the Spirit plane, only with our Ascended consciousness realized as God individualized.
"I have said, Ye are gods; And all of you are children of the most High - Psalms 8

Originally posted by BlueShift

hope you read this

I did

Originally posted by Cuervo
I didn't read all 20-something pages but it sounds like most people are trying to explain away the plurality question with the Holy Trinity. I just wanted to point out that the Holy Trinity is a man-made fabrication and I've yet to be shown any convincing biblical evidence for it.

The bible says "us" because the God of the bible is not alone. That would be the conclusion any un-biased outsider would have from reading it. You will see this in other places, too. In the garden of Eden, God states his concern that Adam and Eve will become as powerful as them. Also, the God in the creation part is all-knowing, all-seeing, etc yet the God in the garden of Eden was walking around, looking for Adam and questioning him and Eve over the events of the day. And then there's the question of all the people that were made before Adam and Eve...

All in all, the Bible is a fascinating collection of holy scriptures, historical accounts, and some not-so-historical-or-holy accounts. Remember, not even the bible (with a few exceptions) states what books should be in the bible. It also does not say it's a sin to question or simply disbelieve some things in there. Many people think the "church" is God and God's word. They have no authority.

This.

Originally posted by brindle

Originally posted by kid_cudi
I have no isues with the bible because I believe! If u just believe you'll never have to question anything. And the bible is analogies and stories and real stories all put into one book. So suck it up and deal with it!

And btw IM CATHOLIC

edit on 21-3-2011 by kid_cudi because: (no reason given)

You say if you just believe,youll never have to question anything.I think you are on the wrong website.The whole purpose here is to question things to find out the truth.You are a great candidate for any cult,including the catholic religion.That is cult mentality,dont question anything,just believe.Any truthful movement or organization encourages questioning.You are under subliminal hypnosis.It is not a good thing.

Originally posted by Reflection
...God created Adam in his image and the Earth and all of it's creatures are for Adam to have dominion over...

This is a very interesting idea. Makes me think of a "custom made planet" tailored to human (and carbon based life in general) needs.

Originally posted by BlueShift
reply to post by WJjeeper

 

In order for someting to evolve, the fittest must survive, and the weakest will die, its known as survival of the fittest

if you take two of one breed, such as bear, and put them in two different environments, one will survive and one will not;
For instance a black bear could not find food in the icy conditions of the poles because it would be easily seen and would die, therefore the white polar bear would become the more popular type in tha area untill all the brown bears are dead and gone, this is not evolution, this is natural selection and cannot change the DNA further than that of a bears.

This is how evolution must happen through the death of the weaker type.

Re survival of the fittest, I feel it did applied once, however since we can kill each other from a great distance, I do not feel this applies today, its more survival of the smartest or biggest gun.

read the bible, didn't really get it, found another book:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by BlueShift
reply to post by Vash

 

The Bible says that one day to God is like a thousand years and vice versa. Its quite a well accepted idea that if God existed he would be outside of time, because he created it.
If you imagine God being outside of time, he can see from the very beginning, to the very end, and in between, all at once. Kind of like having a home video of your life, when you rewatch it you know what happens because you've seen it before, yet at the time of recording, it was free will;
Even though it was without doubt free will at the time, outside of time, it has already happened.

Confusing, but makes sense if you think about it

The Hindus understood this and in their ancient texts explain the cycles of manifestation: "The age of Brahman Saguna = 144,000,000,000 (144 billion) years (1000 times the age of the gods). This is one day in the life of Brahma. The night of Brahma (Brahman Nirguna) is just as long. Then Brahma wakes again and the cycle of Samsara starts all over again: "
source:
www.nvcc.edu...

Soon everyone will know who was right... The Earth is in upheaval and just as prophesied it is happening...

reply to post by ChaosComplex


Awww man, this has already turned into a flame pit. Well if I might make a suggestion, I would recommend you use www.blueletterbible.org when you come across a passage that doesn't make sense to you. Turn on Strong's concordance and you will get numbers after the words and phrases. If you click on the numbers you can get the words in their original language, Hebrew or Greek. Unfortunately there is a ton of translator bias in most English translations. Basically the English translators go into translating with their pre-conceived western notions and take liberties with translations without realizing they are changing the meanings. For instance, the common western idea of the purpose of the Crucifixion is that it was some sort of propitiation for the sins of mankind. Whereas the Church fathers saw it not as a substitutionary sacrifice to appease an angry God, but an expiation of sins to abolish sin, death, and the power of the devil so that mankind might return to God.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Please do not attribute the same type of hard science skills that occur within the constructs of the scientific method to, and I quote you here:

Metaphysicians know there are levels of density to the material plane.

The prefix meta- has a very specific quality when used in the constraints of science; therefore, metaphysics does not give anyone knowing.

In fact, how can anyone even define metaphysics?
Meta- is defined as...

A prefix used in English (and other Greek-owing languages) to indicate a concept which is an abstraction from another concept, used to complete or add to the latter.

link to source

In Psychology, we use the term meta- to mean an abstraction of itself that then completes or adds to a new self.
For example. When reviewing peer reviewed literature, we do what is called a meta-analysis.
This is a peer-reviewed analysis of several combined peer-reviewed analyses (meaning the plural of analysis).

I hope that I am making sense to you.

I am not trying to bash you, but there are differences between science and religion, which most in this thread are not recognizing.
That does not necessarily preclude the two from being mutually exclusive, but generally, the two do not see eye to eye.

I would have hoped by now that someone would have commented on my previous post concerning the documentary hypothesis and the creation of the Bible, or more specifically the Torah/Pentateuch.

Originally posted by brindle

Originally posted by kid_cudi
I have no isues with the bible because I believe! If u just believe you'll never have to question anything. And the bible is analogies and stories and real stories all put into one book. So suck it up and deal with it!

And btw IM CATHOLIC

edit on 21-3-2011 by kid_cudi because: (no reason given)

You say if you just believe,youll never have to question anything.I think you are on the wrong website.The whole purpose here is to question things to find out the truth.You are a great candidate for any cult,including the catholic religion.That is cult mentality,dont question anything,just believe.Any truthful movement or organization encourages questioning.You are under subliminal hypnosis.It is not a good thing.

What im saying is that the bible was written by many different people at different times! The devil is the one who you wants you to question the bible and the existence of God! If you knew the power of believing in Jesus Christ you wouldn't be saying the things you have said! You are picking and choosing what you want to believe in the bible! That's not right! You must believe everything! And no not everything in the bible is true either! And why do people like to bash and hate on Catholics! We never did anything to anyone! Or is because our knowledge of Christ is superior and we understand our religion and the bible! I'm pretty sure that i am the only that stated my religion on this thread because I'm not afraid what anyone thinks or says!

And you say I'm on the wrong forum! Who are you to tell me that I'm on the wrong forum!

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Soon everyone will know who was right... The Earth is in upheaval and just as prophesied it is happening...

I truly believe this.