Looting...Or Lack There Of.

I find it absolutely amazing that after the 9.0 earthquake and subsequent tsunami in Japan there has been no looting, rioting or screaming that government is not doing enough to help the victims. Amazing, isn't it? I mean it's odd watching a disaster unfold without seeing the police shooting at looters or watching rescuers dodge bullets.

In Japan, they share what little they have. If they have enough food for four, they stretch it to feed six.

In America we hoard what little there is and protect it. Then we seek out more and protect that, but when we can find no more, we whine that the government isn't doing enough.

Just my observation from the little I've seen on the small screen. Wondering if anyone else has seen the same? Is there anyway to change the American society or is it to deeply ingrained in each and everyone of us?

Originally posted by Feltrick
I find it absolutely amazing that after the 9.0 earthquake and subsequent tsunami in Japan there has been no looting, rioting or screaming that government is not doing enough to help the victims. Amazing, isn't it? I mean it's odd watching a disaster unfold without seeing the police shooting at looters or watching rescuers dodge bullets.

In Japan, they share what little they have. If they have enough food for four, they stretch it to feed six.

In America we hoard what little there is and protect it. Then we seek out more and protect that, but when we can find no more, we whine that the government isn't doing enough.

Just my observation from the little I've seen on the small screen. Wondering if anyone else has seen the same? Is there anyway to change the American society or is it to deeply ingrained in each and everyone of us?

It turns out we Americans are just as good as the Japanese in the case of disaster. Read A Paradise Built in Hell, by Rebecca Solnit. She shows how awesomely we behave - at least until the military arrives to "restore order." THAT's when issues begin.

reply to post by Feltrick


Japan has a united people and culture and hasn't fallen into this "multi-cultural" crap that is taking down Europe, Australia, and North America.

Here in the US, we have a major problem with the "Jerry Springer" sub culture (or may be close to the primary culture now) of dumbass in and out of jail retard gang wanna be losers that will gladly steal and take without a second thought and assume the world "owes" them something for being an idiot.

That is the difference.

Hell, the police looted during Katrina for God's sake.

www.youtube.com...

I think it goes deeper than Jerry Springer. We prepare for disasters by hoarding or, in the case of 2012, by digging a secret hole in the ground to protect us from other Americans. Think about it, when we think of preparing for a disaster, part of that plan is either hiding from or protecting our stuff from our neighbors!

We think of no one but ourselves. Yes, during 9/11 we came together and helped one another but that really wasn't a huge disaster. During Katrina, rescue workers were being fired upon by those they were trying to save! There were parts of the affected area in which folks worked together to rebuild, but overall, we fell into anarchy and violence. We liberated TVs and electronics. Business owners took advantage of the situation by raising prices. The day after 9/11, gas was $5 a gallon in some areas!

Business owners in Japan actually LOWERED prices right after the earthquake...Yes, the LOWERED their prices to help.

We, as a society are doomed until we stop looking out for ourselves and begin to worry about our neighbors.

Also, I will be reading A Paradise In Hell, thank you.

reply to post by Feltrick


Well, I will be honest here.

Stockpiling and hiding it from your "neighbors" is necessary since they would rather spend every cent on a big screen TV instead of having FOOD!

So, a neighborhood full of unprepared idiots who now look to your supplies because they were to damned stupid to even prepare to survive a week!

So, in your opinion, should I just join the "grasshoppers" and suffer with them because they REFUSED to take a single ounce of responsibility? Or should I protect and feed my family and loved ones with the resources I have purchased with my own money instead of wasting it on luxury items?

Again, I chalk this up to the Jerry Springer society of idiots this generation has fostered. An entitlement mentality that they are owed something. Those saying "share with your neighbor" are the same people who will not bare the burden of "Saving with your neighbor".

reply to post by infolurker


And that's the $64,000 question! I was thinking about this the other night, how do I protect my family and supplies against the folks next door. Kind of reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode with the bomb shelter. Should we turn our backs on our neighbors, is that the right thing to do? Watch them starve while we eat our MREs and drink our gallons of bottled water, smug in the fact that we prepared.

If you were the owner of a business, would you raise your prices and gouge those who didn't prepare? Is that morally acceptable, or are morales a luxury item only seen during good times?

These GRASSHOPPERS are people. They are your friends, neighbors and coworkers. They may have watched your children while you enjoyed a movie or invited you over for a BBQ. Now they are theives hell bent on taking your stuff.

reply to post by Feltrick


Have a sanctuary far away from other people.

Concealment is key. I have been here far too long.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I would rather "quickly" get to my "concealed" shelter and wait it out to be truthful.

One, I hate it that I have to think this way but our population has turned into such "dependents" that most people don't even have 2 weeks worth of food in their houses. I don't want to harm anyone either in defense or being desperate enough to consider it because I didn't pre-plan for the "threats" that are plain as day to see. My solution: Stockpile food in a shelter and wait any major emergency out with my friends and family.... what else can I morally do? The chances of Sit-x happening increase every year and I would be a fool to do "nothing".

Grabbing a backpack and a gun and running into the woods is an idiots plan of desperation in most cases. Having a planned shelter with supplies is the only answer in my opinion.

Edit: One other thing - meeting up with "like minded" individuals may not be what you think.... Soon someone is going to have a "Leader" complex and possibly gain "followers" which may put you and your loved ones in an awkward position depending how bat-sh!t crazy the wanna be "leader" turns out to be. You may soon find yourself in a situation that is worse than going it small with your "trusted" friends and family.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hope this answers some questions

reply to post by infolurker


So back to the topic at hand and the citizens of Japan. It must seem almost alien to you to see folks sharing what little they have. I mean, you would be heading for the hills and to hell with those around you. But, you have to get there, what happens if something prevents you? Let's go further and say you are stranded far away from home and your trusted family and friends during a natural disaster...what then?

Do you take what you need and hide or work with those around you? Disasters don't give advance notice of their arrival and strike without warning.

reply to post by Feltrick


Not alien at all..... help is there and coming in. This is not a Sit-X event. Big difference between a localized disaster and a Sit-X event.

reply to post by infolurker


So, in reality, you're mainly preparing for the fabled SIT-X event (i.e. 2012). Knowing full well that in a true SIT-X event, there will be no survivors. That the bunker you built could well be an expensive grave depending on the actual event and, even if you do survive, the surrounding area could be uninhabitable for many years to come. Worse, an underground bunker could be buried under tons of debris making escape impossible.

BTW, nothing is ever truly hidden from those who need to know.

So you really see nothing strange about how the people in Japan are acting during this crisis? I honestly feel that if this were to happen in LA, Seattle or any large American city, there would be widespread looting, violence and anger directed to the government.

I really have very little faith in my countrymen but understand that, during a widespread natural disaster, I will be forced to work with those around me. Escape from the situation could prove more dangerous than the actual situation. Each community would have to form they're own fifedom, pulling they're resources and protecting the community.

An Army of the unprepared can overwhelm a solitary individual or smaller prepared group.

Nothing left to loot. No looting in Sumatra either afterwards.

There probably is some looting occurring. But two things:

1) In general, Japanese culture instills a resistance to activities such as that. They tend to be a more subdued people, and their repression comes out in much quieter ways than ours. Generally. But there are almost certainly a number of people taking advantage of the situation to steal things. I've got an image of a stereotypical 16-year-old in a leather jacket with slightly-spiked hair, sneering and leading his gang to smash open vending machines. It's kind of awesome.

2) Looting is more of a local and/or national issue than an international one. Do you suppose that the Japanese media ran stories on the looting during Hurricane Katrina?

It's just the way it is in Japan. I lived there for 5 yrs from 1991 thru 1995. When i lived out in town we never locked our house or our car, could leave things out undisturbed. Down the road from our house a Japanese farmer had a produce stand on the side of the road. He would lay out his produce with the price and put out a tin can to put the money in. Then he'd go back to his fields. People would drive up, pick out the produce they wanted, drop the money in the can and drive off. It was all on the honor system. Honor is very important there. So a lack of looting there is no surprise to me.

Now when i eventually moved into military housing in Yokohama, we locked everything down all the time. My fellow Americans would steal you blind in a heartbeat and did on a couple occasions.

reply to post by Amaterasu


The police cause the looting in the US? So I gather that every time an NFL, NBA or World Series is won in a number of cities in the country and looting occurs, its the fault of the police?

The Japanese culture is awesome. They have tremendous respect for others, especially other Japanese people. That cascades from personal respect to respect for property. They would never do something that would cause the world to see them behaving in any other manner but calm and orderly. Its who they are and with this disaster they have shown the world how to behave, maintain dignity and support others through tragedy.

The Japanese still maintain something that is difficult to maintain and that the US, at least, has found too cumbersome and awkward to maintain and that is shame. If someone was caught looting in Japan, they would be cut off from their family, period end of story. They would have disgraced the family and there is no comming back from that.

We could use a bit of that (a lot of it, in my opinion) in the US.

What are we calling looting here?

If something bad goes down, and you take food from a walmart to feed yourself or your family, is that looting or surviving?

People stealing TVs and what not is pretty ridiculous, but those who take what they need I don't have a problem with. Insurance covers business losses, and even if they didn't I can't see how staying alive isn't more important than material possessions.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

The police cause the looting in the US? So I gather that every time an NFL, NBA or World Series is won in a number of cities in the country and looting occurs, its the fault of the police?

Huh? Are you saying the MILITARY is the same as the police? (I never mentioned police...) And these games...they are disasters?

The Japanese culture is awesome. They have tremendous respect for others, especially other Japanese people. That cascades from personal respect to respect for property. They would never do something that would cause the world to see them behaving in any other manner but calm and orderly. Its who they are and with this disaster they have shown the world how to behave, maintain dignity and support others through tragedy.

If you say so, but have you read the book I suggested? A Paradise Built in Hell? We Americans are just as capable (as are any Human group).

The Japanese still maintain something that is difficult to maintain and that the US, at least, has found too cumbersome and awkward to maintain and that is shame. If someone was caught looting in Japan, they would be cut off from their family, period end of story. They would have disgraced the family and there is no comming back from that.

We could use a bit of that (a lot of it, in my opinion) in the US.

This may be so, but my point is that Humans help each other in disasters, and it's universal.

reply to post by James1982


Yes, breaking into a store and stealing food is looting. In the event of a serious disaster, food needs to be rationed out. By suggesting that it is OK for someone to break into a store and take "what they need" is acceptable behavior is wrong. What happens to the person who is unwilling or unable to do that? A survival of the fittest mentality, however personally appealing it might be to some, is by definition, anti-social behavior.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by James1982

 

Yes, breaking into a store and stealing food is looting. In the event of a serious disaster, food needs to be rationed out. By suggesting that it is OK for someone to break into a store and take "what they need" is acceptable behavior is wrong. What happens to the person who is unwilling or unable to do that? A survival of the fittest mentality, however personally appealing it might be to some, is by definition, anti-social behavior.

Who rations the food?

If you walk by a store with nobody around, and are starving, are you going to wait around until somebody with the "authority" comes by to dole the food out? Just doesn't make any sense.

If your walking around in the woods you don't ask permission to pick berries. It takes awhile to starve, this is true. What about water? You have no water, your dead in a few days. It's wrong to take some bottles of water from a store? You have a gaping wound and are bleeding to death, but it's wrong to take some medical supplies? I suppose you would rather people die than take the supplies they need, that sounds a lot like anti social behavior to me.

reply to post by James1982


It sound like ELITIST behavior to me. You have to understand that we're not talking about raiding cash registers and taking $100 bottles of wine, this is survival. It is human nature and instinct to fend for ourselves and there is not one part of any of us that would actually sit down with no power or running water and wait for someone to walk up 8 flights of stairs and knock on our door to bring us something that we could find ourselves much earlier. Do you ever pull up to a drive through and see that the line is too long? what do you do? you park your car and go inside to get your food faster. It's simply instinct and everyones primal urges are bound to show themselves when we're faced with a disaster.

reply to post by James1982


Someone with priorities other than self interest rations the food. I don't care if it is the community, the police, the church, the military. Point being that scarce resources need to be allocated, not taken by force. What do you suppose folks do when they break into a store to grab some food? Think, well there are other folks who are going to be hungry as well, so I'm only going to take what I need for a couple of days, or are they going to take as much as they can get their hands on? Better to have everyone a bit hungry and a bit thursty than have some folks with a full belly and others starving and the only way to accomplish that is by rationing.