SCI/TECH: Pole Shift, Already Underway

According to the New York Times, The Earth's magnetic field began to shift 150 years ago and the world is beginning to undergo major changes. A pole shift could cause major damage on a worldwide scale. Europeans are seizing opportunities to study this phenomena while most American scientists dissmiss the idea of such a thing even occuring.



While members of the underground internet conspiracy scene have been discussing a pole shift for years, it is interesting to finally see more mainstream coverage of such an event.

There are going to be several sattelites launched in coming years, 2009 and 2015, to be exact just to study Earth's magnetic field. Hopefully that won't be too late.

[edit on 7-17-2004 by Valhall]

Originally posted by lockheed
"According to the New York Times, The Earth's magnetic field began to shift 150 years ago and the world is beginning to undergo major changes. A pole shift could cause major damage on a worldwide scale."

Much like the topic of "global warming", hype and scare mongering sells and the NYT is a pro at it. Historically, they have a poor record for science reports. Back in 1929, they ridiculed a scientist for saying that a rocket could fly in the vacuum of space. Years later, that scientist's work launched the Apollo missions. Robert Goddard was that scientist.

Unless a magnetic pole shift is instantaneous (which NASA says is extremely ulikely), don't expect much drama except for erroneous compass headings, some miinor satellite disruptions and some confused migratory animals. Even if the flip was instantaneous, the earth's relatively weak magnetic field (1 Gauss) is not enough to induce power surges in common electrical devices or power lines.


[edit on 17-7-2004 by Outland]

Originally posted by Outland
Much like the topic of "global warming", hype and scare mongering sells and the NYT is a pro at it. Historically, they have a poor record for science reports. Back in 1929, they ridiculed a scientist for saying that a rocket could fly in the vacuum of space. Years later, that scientist's work launched the Apollo missions. Robert Goddard was that scientist.

Yeah outland...i guess that why we are not having worse weather every year, and other strange phenomenon that we haven't figured it out yet and could very well be linked to climate change. In the Midwest there are some regions that have right now the worse drought in 500 years, and it seems is going to be worse than the "dust bowl drought" that happened back then, while in other areas in the midwest continous rain. This is not just happening in one place.

Personally I am glad that there is someone out there rooting for the Zambian mole rats. They must be protected at all costs!!

When baby loggerhead turtles embark on an 8,000-mile trek around the Atlantic, they use invisible magnetic clues to check their bearings. So do salmon and whales, honeybees and homing pigeons, frogs and Zambian mole rats, scientists have found.

Originally posted by Netchicken
Personally I am glad that there is someone out there rooting for the Zambian mole rats. They must be protected at all costs!!

lol, well, you never know what those molerats could be doing to help the environment...

Anyways, I do think something definitely is up. Normally what happens in nature will affect us in one way or another.

Muaddib, I think you mean the "west", not "midwest". I live in the midwest and there is no drought here. In fact, Summer has been amazingly mediocre and somewhat cooler than normal so far.

As for the drought in the west and southwest, perhaps it is the worst since 500 years. But to say that also means that it has happened before. Thus, it would not be abnormal for it to occur again. And indeed, much worse has happened.


Looking further back in time, one might even conclude that even the "Dust Bowl" period was nothing unusual and it certainly was not the most severe.


Climate has and always will change. Anomalies and extremes have happened and always will. That's the nature of anomalies and extremes.

Perhaps what has really changed is man's perception of current extremes. Mass media and rapid global communications make anything that happens anywhere into an instaneous world event. All of the earth's records show that climate has had drastic changes, both slow and sudden. It seems that when something happens in our own lifetime, it's somehow worse than ever before and unexpected.

Originally posted by Outland

Climate has and always will change. Anomalies and extremes have happened and always will. That's the nature of anomalies and extremes.

Perhaps what has really changed is man's perception of current extremes. Mass media and rapid global communications make anything that happens anywhere into an instaneous world event. All of the earth's records show that climate has had drastic changes, both slow and sudden. It seems that when something happens in our own lifetime, it's somehow worse than ever before and unexpected.

Yes, climate does change, but how will it impact us now that we are so overpopulated? How will it affects us when these changes hits us in full, worse than what is happening now, and catch us unprepared with no real long term plans in case the worse happens?

It is not only perception, the weather is worsening and is slowly hitting areas where populations have concentrated. Who will be helping the US, or Europe when they are hit as Asia is being hit now and other places?

We are already being hit with freak climate, i don't think even you can't deny that. But what happens when things get worse as they seem to be getting every year?

Does it hurt anyone to acknowledge what is happening? or to make preparations for the worse?


[edit on 18-7-2004 by Muaddib]

Pole shift? Looks like I'd better learn how to speak Polish!

Nyuck nyuck nyuck.

Well here in the UK we have had loads of Rain?? for this time of year its very odd as it should be summer time an heat waves,it is not an its like almost winter mild cold with down pours of rain????

they were calling it Julvember cause it was much like November weather but its summer time???????????

itslike we have had no summer as of yet except for maybe 1 week out of 11 so far its still dull an rainy cloudy very odd summer.

[edit on 18-7-2004 by blobby]

I also heard on the radio that there were parts of Europe that are having cold weather right now, when it should be hot since its summer. I am trying to find the links to the information.

[edit on 18-7-2004 by Muaddib]

Here is also a link to a thread which i think could very well have something to do with this thread. It does have to do with freaky weather.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well, it does looks as if most of Europe, if not all of it, is experiencing freaky weather at this moment. Temperatures at this moment seem to be in the 50s in some areas, 60s and 70s throughout most of Europe. I remember this time of the year it would be in the high 80s in Spain or even higher in years past.

Europe Heat Index

[edit on 18-7-2004 by Muaddib]

A more useful reference would be to look at temperatures over a period of years, which would reveal occasionally wide variations in some years, in addition to several overlapping trends.

"Freak" weather is actually so common that the term can be somewhat misleading.

When fish fall out of the sky, then it's time to worry. Oh wait, that has already happened several times in the past, so I guess it's time to panic.

Muaddib pondered:
"Yes, climate does change, but how will it impact us now that we are so overpopulated?

We will do what mankind has always done. Adapt, survive, carry on and complain about the weather.

Muaddib pondered again:
"How will it affects us when these changes hits us in full, worse than what is happening now, and catch us unprepared with no real long term plans in case the worse happens?"

That is assuming that the climate will just get worse and worse and overwhelm us with a barrage of tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, sudden glaciers... hey, this sounds like "Day After Tomorrow"! (gag) If you're expecting a near-future Hollywood-like cataclysmic global upheaval courtesy of Mother Nature, it's more likely to come in the form of an impact by a meteor or extreme coronal mass ejection rather than some added CO2 in the air and ocean salinity changes.

Muaddib rebutted:
"It is not only perception, the weather is worsening and is slowly hitting areas where populations have concentrated. --- We are already being hit with freak climate, i don't think even you can't deny that. --- But what happens when things get worse as they seem to be getting every year? --- Does it hurt anyone to acknowledge what is happening? or to make preparations for the worse?"

To say that the "weather is worsening" (although I think you meant "climate") is exactly a matter of perception. Perception is a relative thing. In this case, the relative aspect is one of a historical time scale. You may be able to say that the climate may be worse now than any other time you can recall or worse in X number of years, but in the broader ranges of historical precedence, one can also say that the climate is much better than it has been at many times.

I'm sure that many people during the periods of the Younger Dryas, the Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age, or even the Dust Bowl had the perception that climate was "worsening every year", but eventually, it did get better every year. I'm sure that in each case, those people adapted, survived and carried on. I know this because here we are complaining about the weather. Doomsday did not arrive as many might have predicted.

Yes, I will deny that we are "already being hit with freak climate". I won't deny that there have been many regional weather anomalies. And although the specific regions may change throughout history, the types, severity and occurances of those anomalies themselves are not new.

Therefore, if I must "acknowledge what is happening", I will acknowledge that we are experiencing some anomalies or at least, yet another temporary period of change. I won't acknowledge that doomsday is upon us.

In an inverse perspective, why aren't we mentioning that Australia, New Zealand and the Antarctic are having a fairly normal Winter right now? Why aren't we mentioning that the Arctic ice is growing and has actually thickened over the past few years? Of course, it will be Summer there in a few months and then we can scream that the ice is melting.

Originally posted by Outland

In an inverse perspective, why aren't we mentioning that Australia, New Zealand and the Antarctic are having a fairly normal Winter right now? Why aren't we mentioning that the Arctic ice is growing and has actually thickened over the past few years? Of course, it will be Summer there in a few months and then we can scream that the ice is melting.

You mean something like this?

Tuesday, May 25, 2004 Posted: 11:22 PM EDT (0322 GMT)
"There is dramatic climate change happening in the Arctic right now ... about 2 to 3 times the pace of the whole globe," said Robert Corell, chairman of the Arctic Climate Impact Assessment, an 1,800-page report to be handed to ministers in Iceland in November.

The melting is destabilizing buildings on permafrost and threatening an oil pipeline laid across Alaska.

Excerpted from.
www.cnn.com...

Sept. 23, 2003 � Arctic scientists have reported that the largest remaining ice shelf in the north polar waters has succumbed to a rapidly warming climate.

Excerpted from.
dsc.discovery.com...

The following is pretty much the same report as the one above on the largest remaining ice shelf breaking off in the Arctic...

Quebec City - Sep 24, 2003
The largest ice shelf in the Arctic has broken, and scientists who have studied it closely say it is evidence of ongoing and accelerated climate change in the north polar region. The Ward Hunt Ice Shelf is located on the north coast of Ellesmere Island in Canada's Nunavut territory and its northernmost national park.

Excerpted from.
www.spacedaily.com...

October 2002
INTERNATIONAL GLACIOLOGICAL SOCIETY
INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON ARCTIC GLACIOLOGY
Approximately two-thirds of the Earth's small glaciers and ice caps are located in the Arctic, in addition to the 1.7 million km2 Greenland Ice Sheet. The enhanced climate warming predicted for the Arctic is likely to have important consequences for the mass-balance and dynamics of Arctic ice masses; accelerating melting has been observed in some parts of the Arctic already, providing a significant contribution to observed global sea-level rise.

Excerpted from.
www.igsoc.org...

There is variability in temperatures from year to year, and also from decade to decade superimposed on the longer upward trend (see Global Temperature graph). The range of natural variability in global temperature seems to be about plus or minus 0.2� C, so that it is only after the late 1970s that global mean temperatures emerge from the noise of natural variability (Trenberth 1997). The northern high latitudes have experienced greater warming than the mid-latitudes or the southern high latitudes. This is apparent in the Temperature Change for Three Latitude Bands graph. In some northern regions, extreme warming has been detected. Locations in Alaska and northern Eurasia, for example, have warmed by nearly 6.0� C in the winter months over the past 30 years (Serreze et al. 2000). The warming is not universal, some cooling has occurred in the North Atlantic and central North Pacific and is known to be a consequence of changes in the atmospheric circulation.

Excerpted from.
nsidc.org...

Note that the 6.0 C should probably be 0.6 C, it was probably a mistake. 6 C is too much of a change.

Perhaps you were refering to the recent anomalous growth in one part of the Artic ice cap which was acquired in the period of 1996 - 2002.

the following is a link to it.
www.agu.org...

Does one anomalous growth explain everything else that is happening in the Arctic? Does it explain the other recent results we have found that tells us that the Arctic is melting at an alarming rate?

You want to ignore all the other data because of one anomalous finding in 2002? Yes, I know that the Arctic ice expands and shrinks depending on the season, but we have found that it has shrank more than it has expanded back.

BTW, one of the climate change scenarios is that the Arctic ice moves down more towards northern Europe, much of Canada and part of the northern States in the US. It essentially just moves down.


[edit on 18-7-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
You mean something like this?.....

Sorry, Muaddib... I meant Antarctic. Not Arctic.
I really shouldn't type at 3 AM.


[edit on 18-7-2004 by Outland]

okay..here you go.

The Antarctic ice sheet stores 90 percent of Earth�s frozen freshwater. Its freezing and melting dynamics have many implications for climate change. Now, scientists Eric Rignot from NASA�s Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Stanley Jacobs from Columbia University�s Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory reveal in the June 14 issue of Science that the bottoms of Antarctic ice shelves are melting more rapidly at their grounding lines � where ice detaches from the seafloor and begins to float � than previously thought.

Excerpted from.
www.geotimes.org...

US scientists say the floating fringes of the Antarctic ice sheet are melting faster than previous studies had suggested.

They say the rate of melting is linked to the temperature of the surrounding seawater.

Excerpted from.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Is this all or is there more?

NASA Instrument Captures Early Antarctic Ice Shelf Melting
January 13, 2003
An international research team using data from NASA's SeaWinds instrument aboard the Quick Scatterometer spacecraft has detected the earliest yet recorded pre-summer melting event in a section of Antarctica's Larsen Ice Shelf. This huge, nearly 200 meter (656 foot) thick plate of glacier-fed floating ice, which in the late 1980s was about as large as Indiana, experienced dramatic disintegration events beginning in 1995 that have reduced its area by nearly 10 percent, or more than two trillion tons of ice.

Excerpted from.
www.jpl.nasa.gov...

Recent Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) satellite imagery analyzed at the University of Colorado's National Snow and Ice Data Center revealed that the northern section of the Larsen B ice shelf, a large floating ice mass on the eastern side of the Antarctic Peninsula, has shattered and separated from the continent. The shattered ice formed a plume of thousands of icebergs adrift in the Weddell Sea. A total of about 3,250 km2 of shelf area disintegrated in a 35-day period beginning on 31 January 2002. Over the last five years, the shelf has lost a total of 5,700 km2, and is now about 40 percent the size of its previous minimum stable extent.

Excerpted from.
nsidc.org...

Friday October 31, 2003
A giant ice shelf the size of Scotland is melting rapidly in the Antarctic, scientists have warned today.

Two sections of the Larsen ice shelf collapsed in 1995 and 2002. Now satellite measurements have confirmed that it has thinned by as much as 18 metres more than usual in the past decade, because of a warmer ocean.

The report comes a day after a University College London report in the journal Nature confirmed a 40% thinning of the ice in the Arctic Ocean in the past 30 years.

Excerpted from.
www.guardian.co.uk...

The following is about Greenland, but it has to do with what we are discussing.

Updated April 26, 2004

Most scientists agree that global warming presents the greatest threat to the environment.

There is little doubt that the Earth is heating up. In the last century the average temperature has climbed about 0.6 degrees Celsius (about 1 degree Fahrenheit) around the world.

From the melting of the ice cap on Mount Kilimanjaro, Africa's tallest peak, to the loss of coral reefs as oceans become warmer, the effects of global warming are often clear.

However, the biggest danger, many experts warn, is that global warming will cause sea levels to rise dramatically. Thermal expansion has already raised the oceans 4 to 8 inches (10 to 20 centimeters). But that's nothing compared to what would happen if, for example, Greenland's massive ice sheet were to melt.

Excerpted from.
news.nationalgeographic.com...

Last Update: Saturday, March 6, 2004.
Glacier melt indicates global warming changes

On the north-east coast of the island, glaciologists were disturbed to find Brown Glacier is melting at a faster rate than before.

In the 50 years to 2000, the glacier consistently lost half-a-metre of ice each year.

Australian Antarctic Division Glaciologist Dr Doug Thost says in the years since then it has been melting at almost four times that rate.

"The surface has been lowering just on average about two, just over two metres every year," Dr Thost said.

"It's a four-fold increase in that lowering rate."

Dr Thost says it is an early warning sign of global warming changes that scientists can expect further south.

Excerpted from.
www.abc.net.au...

Sorry Outland were you saying something? I couldn't hear you with the noise made by all that ice breaking, the crashing and melting all over the place....

Seriously, this is happening all over, and my other thread on Canada's record breaking for rainstorms, hail and lightning this year further paints a picture of what is happening. Look at the pictures from my thread about Canada. The last link has a lot more pictures of what happened on July 11th 2004.


[edit on 19-7-2004 by Muaddib]

Collaboration:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by cmwig
Collaboration:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

once again cmwig, I don't see how that link you gave helps at all this issue, much less when you are trying to link this to a known hoax. i don't even know how you were able to post this if you just wrote one word and a link in both threads.

How bout this?

Quote source news.bbc.co.uk...
Scientists have discovered a potent new greenhouse gas in the Earth's atmosphere.

The UK, German and US researchers stumbled across the molecules while they were studying other greenhouse gases.

Trifluoromethyl sulfur pentafluoride is said to be 18,000 times better at trapping heat than the main human contribution to the greenhouse effect, carbon dioxide.

How will this new gas we are emitting interact with the climate? It can't be good thats for sure...