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My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
~ Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
It’s fascinating to see Atlas Shrugged author Ayn Rand posthumously elevated to the level of saint by conservatives who are allegedly driven by Christian values. For Rand was an aggressive atheist who condemned altruism of all kinds, writes Tim King in Sojourners, and “Grace, by its very definition, cannot find any place within Rand’s philosophy.”
...Rand was clear that her philosophy, known as objectivism, was incompatible with that of Jesus. For her, any system that that required one individual to live for others and follow anything beside his or her own self-interest was immoral. For Jesus, any system or behavior that does not take into account living for others and acting on their behalf is immoral. Christians should take Ayn Rand’s words as a warning. To follow her and her vision, one must give up Christ and his cross.
10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
13 But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.
14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
Exodus 22 and 23 tells the Israelites to help the aliens, widows, orphans, and the poor. God protects their property, warns again against showing favoritism, and sets up a system of “gleaning” to help prevent starvation and malnourishment (Ex. 23:10-12).
In Leviticus 25:8-43, we see that God institutes the practice of the “Year of Jubilee” to be practiced every fifty years. God says to the nation of Israel:
“…do not take advantage of each other, but fear your God.”
—Leviticus 25:17 (NIV)
“If one of your countrymen becomes poor and is unable to support himself among you, help him as you would an alien or a temporary resident, so he can continue to live among you. Do not take interest of any kind from him, but fear your God, so that your countrymen may continue to live among you…”
—Leviticus 25:35-36 (NIV)
“If one of your countrymen becomes poor among you and sells himself to you, do not make him work as a slave. He is to be treated as a hired worker or a temporary resident among you; he is to work for you until the Year of Jubilee”.
—Leviticus 25:39-40 (NIV)
In Deuteronomy 15, we see that God’s intention will be that His people will have all debts canceled every seven years. This was appropriately called “The Year for Canceling Debts”.
They had the right of gleaning the fields (Lev. 19:9-10; Deut. 24:19, 21).
In the sabbatical year, they were to have their share of the produce of the fields and the vineyards (Ex. 23:11; Lev. 25:6).
In the year of jubilee, they recovered their property (Lev. 25:25-30).
Usury was forbidden, and the pledged raiment was to be returned before the sun went down (Ex. 22:25-27; Deut. 24:10-13). The rich were to be generous to the poor (Deut. 15:7-11).
In the sabbatical and jubilee years, the bond-servant was to go free (Deut. 15:12-15; Lev. 25:39-42, 47-54).
Certain portions from the tithes were assigned to the poor (Deut. 14:28-29; 26:12-13).
They shared in the feasts (Deut. 16:11, 14; Neh. 8:10).
Wages were to be paid at the close of each day (Lev. 19:13).
In the New Testament (Luke 3:11; 14:13; Acts 6:1; Gal. 2:10; James 2:15-16) we have similar injunctions given with reference to the poor.
Begging was not common under the Old Testament, while it was so in the New Testament times (Luke 16:20-21, etc.). But begging in the case of those who are able to work is forbidden, and all such are enjoined to “work with their own hands” as a Christian duty (1 Thess. 4:11; 2 Thess. 3:7-13; Eph. 4:28).
I am not confusing them at all, thus my emphasis on WILL NOT. Those who cannot work are to be helped, but privately, not by government confiscation. The government is the most inefficient way imaginable to help people in need. The church and private individuals are much better, as they are able to 1) respond directly to the NEED and 2) ensure personal accountability. Additionally, churches and private individuals are much more motivated, not to mention effective, at getting the person in need back on their feet.
Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by sonofliberty1776
Back at 'cha.
You are, I think, equating "welfare bums" with Biblical beggars - but in the Bible, only those who are "able to work" are forbidden to beg - and the Bible tells the community to help those who are poor and unable to work (meaning unable to work for any reason - be it lack of opportunity, illness or economic abuse).
And I made clear, or so I thought, that I did not support such a view. Did you read Atlas shrugged at all?
Randian objectivists tend to consider anyone who is unable to work to be a "useless eater," who should just be left to die. Not at all Christian according to the Bible and Jesus.
The above title may seem like strong words, for surely that can't be correct? Jesus an anarchist? One must be joking, right?
But you read correctly, and I will demonstrate exactly that. At this point you may be incredulous, but I assure you that I am quite serious. If you are a Christian and find the above title at all hard to believe then you of all people owe it to yourself to find out what the basis of this charge is, for if the above comes as news to you then you still have much to learn about Jesus and about the most vitally important struggle which has plagued mankind since the dawn of history: mankind's continuing struggle between freedom and slavery, between value producers and the violent parasitical elite, between peace and war, between truth and deception. This is the central struggle which defines mankind's history and, sadly, continues to do so. As Christians and as people in general, what we choose to believe and accept as the truth is equally as vitally important, for ultimately it is people's beliefs about the world that will shape and determine what outcomes transpire in the world. If the mass of people believe in political falsehoods and deceptions then mankind will continue to repeat the same gruesome mistakes, as it does presently, and the aforementioned struggle will continue to be no closer to a desirable resolution. Genuine change must first come by changing one's mind, and if what one had believed before was in error then one cannot expect good results to proceed forth from it. And all change starts with the individual. You can help change the world by simply changing your mind. All I ask of you is to believe in the truth--know the truth and the truth will make you free (John 8:32).
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have always thought of people who love Ayn Rand and her philosophy as selfish. A true Christian (IMO) is not selfish, but selfless. I never thought of it before, but it does seem that the value systems are in direct opposition to each other.
Originally posted by Logarock
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have always thought of people who love Ayn Rand and her philosophy as selfish. A true Christian (IMO) is not selfish, but selfless. I never thought of it before, but it does seem that the value systems are in direct opposition to each other.
I dont know. Christ said he sent some into his vineyard to check up on things and they were poorly treated so the owner sent his son. Well those at the vineyard killed the son so god said he would kill them. He said the kingdom was like this. So its really not like a charity fund rasier or a soup kitchen. Its a war between the owners and the occupiers.
Those who cannot work are to be helped, but privately… The church and private individuals are much better, as they are able to 1) respond directly to the NEED and 2) ensure personal accountability.
Additionally, churches and private individuals are much more motivated, not to mention effective, at getting the person in need back on their feet.
Those who cannot work are to be helped, but ...not by government confiscation.
Did you read Atlas shrugged at all?
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I have always thought of people who love Ayn Rand and her philosophy as selfish. A true Christian (IMO) is not selfish, but selfless. I never thought of it before, but it does seem that the value systems are in direct opposition to each other.
Originally posted by Logarock
reply to post by soficrow
Well some folks have this idea about christains and what they should be, mostly other "christains", that in the end makes the christain the perfect sucker.
Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
I am beginning to wonder if the OP and others have actually read Atlas Shrugged, or just someone's review and adopted their prejudices since they fitted the readers presupposed world views?
My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.
~ Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
See
Peikoff 1991, pp. 31–33; an example of the Objectivist approach to metaphysical argumentation may be found in George H. Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God, 1974, Nash, chapters 1-7, ISBN 0-8402-1115-5 and ISBN 0-87975-124-X.
It is clear that good Christians follow Rothbardian anarcho-capitalism, because that is the only system of purely peaceful voluntary interactions between humans.
…mankind's continuing struggle between freedom and slavery, between value producers and the violent parasitical elite, between peace and war, between truth and deception. This is the central struggle which defines mankind's history and, sadly, continues to do so.
Originally posted by soficrow
I DO think it's possible to be 'healthily selfish' and spiritually selfless at the same time.
Today's Christian / Libertarians have been manipulated and tricked into blaming the 'poor' and unemployed as "the parasites" - when really, it's "the violent parasitical elite" who are bleeding us ALL dry.
Safety net programs: About 14 percent of the federal budget in 2010, or $482 billion, will support programs that provide aid (other than health insurance or Social Security benefits) to individuals and families facing hardship.
These programs include: the refundable portion of the earned-income and child tax credits, which assist low- and moderate-income working families through the tax code; programs that provide cash payments to eligible individuals or households, including Supplemental Security Income for the elderly or disabled poor and unemployment insurance; various forms of in-kind assistance for low-income families and individuals, including food stamps, school meals, low-income housing assistance, child-care assistance, and assistance in meeting home energy bills; and various other programs such as those that aid abused and neglected children.
U.S. military spending – Dept. of Defense plus nuclear weapons (in $billions) – is equal to the military spending of the next 15 countries combined.
Soficrow,
You do not understand the response that was posted. He never said anything about determining the ability of someone to work.
You are very much stuck on the small segment of the population that suffer from real physical disability and cannot work to support themselves.
The presence of government in this process (sorry its not just the doctors that decide) has expanded the definition of "physically disabled" to include alcoholics, sex addicts, and lard butts. These people are not disabled they are wallowing in their own poor life choices and expecting others to pay their way. THATS IMMORAL and I dont care what religion you are.
Conservatives promote Randian ideas about government when it is in agreement with their own ideals. They do not accept every aspect of Objectivism nor do they have to.