Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-2

reply to post by SLAYER69


Sounds like a U2U response to the question.
Would you care to elaborate since we are on a 'public' board?
"For every disciplined effort, there are multiple rewards".
E.R. .....though her words were correct, her husband had his ear to a s't'eer.
He must have forgot to remove the 't' from the equation.

It seems others are soon to follow.....
Maybe Not.

reply to post by Perseus Apex


The first time it was a hardware failure. Hardrive crash, lost about 40% .
The second time it was another type of failure [NO COMMENT]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Understood.
My system is a merry-go-round for worms, viruses and trojans.
I have one trojan in particular on my system that is as a fungus amongus.
It has become a 'pet' of sorts.
A pet project.
Though it uses more 'resources' than it's worth, I tolerate it since my band is quite broad where I'm at.
"I" have this hope, the project is a successful one for 'all' concerned.

No hardware issues to speak of.
I have an MCSE and A+ compTIA. certs. and exp. background in this 'space' though found it rather boring of an industry personally. Every lil bit helps I suppose.
It's (certs), helpful though not so necessary as this knowledge is open source for the most part these days and can be learned and applied at one's choosing.....as it should.

Open Source is the only force from here forward to move 'any' pack forward.
One cannot achieve a 'pinnacle' of being if their pyramid is based on a false foundation.
Imagine each human being.....beeing as a component of a superexistant pyramid (astral form or vision of a truth) of humanity collectively. I understand that if the 'folks' work together, they could achieve the next phase of being much, much quicker and with merit. One can look Up for answers only to find their questions and answers were ignored. If one questions the 'intent' of what they wish for and discover it 'self serving' then what 'should' one expect? Whether one has an understanding of a/the creator itself, the consequence or reaction always follows the Action.

That's enough for now.
Kicking soap box.
in Ur direction.

Soap box?
Fantastic idea.
Why not have every 'representative' of the 'people' responsible to explain their actions say quarterly within an open stage of debate for 'all' to witness and 'all' to contribute. The Truth is never 'out of bounds' and should be available and at the ready for any matter concerning the folks in folkland. The 'land' is just another issue. Folks, do you own 'your' land or does Admiralty law complimented with UCC merely give you 'rights' to 'your' land whereby these 'rights' may be rescinded at the discretion of the Federal goverment of which never has and never will be 'run' by the people. If you have an unseen master, as you do, why do you continue to allow it to take place? Is one to follow a master that hides in the shadows yet pulls your strings as.....haarp unto the ionosphere.
[Adjusting mInoculars], and you.....

?NXT.....

reply to post by AlienCarnage


I find several things fascinating about Caral...

One, they didn't have a written language and second no form of pottery. This plus the fact that in the video they mentioned reed baskets. Well if you noticed Caral is like in the middle of a desert. Where exactly do you find reeds? Near marshes and rivers.

So, no written language yet they were able to plan and engineer pyramids and other structures with stone tools. Again no pottery. How does one store and carry water? Most early societies would have used gourds but again where do you find gourds in the middle of the desert?

So this indicates to me that the area of this discovery must have seen some drastic environmental changes which could have been a contributing factor to the site being abandoned. I don't know who would walk out into the middle of a desert and call it home with no water or way of growing cotton as it seems to be the case in Caral.

Domens of Russia

thank you for posting your truth~
it is belief the Hawaiian islands are the pinnacle of a mountain of MU
the submerging of which precipitated a global flood..
some interesting reading regarding MU and James Churchward... The Sacred Symbols of MU
the posting of dolmens within the text conjures images from one a favorite book series...
Ringing Cedars of Russia Series

Anastasia Ringing Cedars
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d3385a6d38d0.jpg[/atsimg]

Anastasia Dolmens
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/50bd67550f77.jpg[/atsimg]

"Few of the people who lived ten thousand years ago still possessed these abilities. It was basically those heading up social groups, leaders of tribes. They began – or rather at their behest people began – to construct special facilities made of heavy stone slabs. These enclosed the interior chamber about one-and-a-half by two meters in area and two meters in height – sometimes more, sometimes less. The slabs were placed at a slight angle, leaning toward the centre at the top. Occasionally these chambers would be hewn out of a single monolith. Other chambers might be hidden underground and covered over by mounds of earth. On one of the walls of the chamber a cone-shaped opening was cut into the slab, approximately thirty centimeters in diameter and covered with a specially fitted stone plug.
"Into this tomb-chambers would go people who had not lost the ability to communicate with the wisdom of the Universe. Those still alive and even those who might be born thousands of years hence would be able to go to them and obtain answers to any questions that were of interest to man. This required sitting beside the chamber and meditating. Sometimes the answer would come right away, sometimes after a delay, but it would definitely come, since these structure and those that retreated into them served as an information receiver. Through them it was easier to communicate with the Great Intelligence of the Universe.
"Those stone structures are the prototypes of Egyptian pyramids... Only the pyramids don’t constitute nearly as powerful a receiver even so they are greater in size. … Immeasurably greater significance than the pyramids in terms of contact with the Mind of the Universe were the smaller stone structures which preceded them.
Space of LOVE ... Dolmens

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1fdba626896.jpg[/atsimg]


∞LOVE∞

reply to post by Kandinsky

Its existence doesn't help the idea of an earlier worldwide civilisation based around coastlines. Sure, it has an impressive scale yet doesn't have the artefacts to suggest it was part of an established civilisation reaching back thousands of years earlier. The level of technology, based on the artefacts, was basic and not equal to that of Egypt or Mesopotamia from a similar period.

Yes I doubt there was one worldwide global civilization as well. As far as being less advanced because of artifacts found compared to Egypt, I wonder if it is because of the culture differences, where Caral was an area where there was not much discovered in the way of weapons, which makes me wonder if it was possibly the lack of warlike behavior that the technology was less evolved. Where in Egypt there was feuding and wars which helped push their advancements forward. I don't know if there is a way to know for certain if this was the case, but if you look at some of the advancements made in recent times, it was wars that helped push some of the technology further where had we not had the wars, we might not have made some of the advancements we did. i am not saying this is the only reason that Egypt was more advanced than Caral, but it could explain some of the differences in technological advancement.

A full day of Decorating,cooking and nursing, I was bushed but had to read Part2 Slayer.......Another great innings well done! Book I'd cut out the middle man and go for the Discovery Channel...Slayers: Uncovering The Ancients.....
S+F as usual. Yep totally agree about the Egyptian looking Omec statues, looks like they're offering gifts. No doubt made to Comemorate the occasion maybe.
I'll watch the Videos later seems theres a lot of ATSers watching them at the moment so its abit laggy.





p.s Not saying there was advanced Civilisation prior to our own but what would be left from our own seemingly Modern Advanced Civilisation if we faced simular Calamities, Worldwide Flood, Ice Age and Super Volcanoes would they say that we didn't exist? Would our method of recording data and our buildings we have today withstand such a deluge of flood and disaster? We would be wiped from history. All that would be left are the stone structures left by our own ancestors or their ancestors which may seem primitive to the new rising Civilisation. We will be forgotten, only a myth written by a man who was told a story once.....................

reply to post by SLAYER69


One of the things mentioned in the video was that they may have irrigated the land from the nearby rivers sources, which would have transformed the land considerably but has it really a desert even before they irrigated the land?

Was the cotton indigenous or did they carry the seeds with them from another place?

Were they hunters prior to being farmers, or were they migrating farmers? I can't wait to see what else comes from this area. I am off to look deeper into this and see what I find.

reply to post by AlienCarnage


Well report back and let us know what you find.

reply to post by SLAYER69


I found something that I had to share, the following site has an audio interview with Dr. Shady in both Spanish and English, I am in the process of listening to it myself now, but wanted to put this out there in case anyone else was interested.

www.archaeologychannel.org...

very impressive thread Slayer, and a joy to read too!



It has left me feeling very humbled to know of the billions of lives that have been lived, the hundreds - if not thousands - of civilisations that rise and fall cyclically, and the vast gulf between human and human not only present between the ages, but also present within the ages throughout our entire history and throughout our entire world.

Archaeology/anthropology are keen interests of mine, but this threads make the dig i went on 2 weeks ago seem so dull in comparison.. Roman pottery at the bottom of an ancient rubbish tip full of shell fish and charcoal is only interesting for the first hour of digging, and even then i found myself more fascinated by the way the layers of earth had formed over the years than i was by anything we found... and after a week of digging all day everyday the only thing of interest i had truly excavated from the past were some old memories of mine dating back 15 years to when I felt a deep connection with the spirituality of the Silbury Hill monument in Avebury Wiltshire when i was 3 years old. That place has very magical qualities im telling you! I was thinking about starting a thread because of thay experience actually. Talking about the synchronicity between modern psychological therapy and archeological excavations... and perhaps alow me to suggest in this thread, that by reading through this information, we are literally excavating the spirits of our ancestors present within the collective human subconsciousness... and maybe we find this topic fascinating and interesting because perhpas in a way it is therapuetic literally for the collective human soul to go through..

Anyway thanks for this thread, possibly the most enjoyable thread ive ever read on ATS . thanks so much.

As for the sunken city off of Cuba I think a good case could be made to connect that to Atlantis.

The local Aztecs have a legend of coming from a sunken island to the east called "Aztalan" which of course sounds an awful lot like Atlantis. Then there is the Isle of Youth to the south of Cuba which according to the Aztec legend the place where the survivors of Aztalan went after it was sunk. In the legend they went to seven caves and later on set out to found seven cities. On the other side of the ocean we have Greek mythology which says something similar about the Isle of the Hesperides with "seven daughters of Atlas" living there. Daughters of Atlas translates to "Atlantides," and since Atlas was said to be the founder of Atlantis "Daughter of Atlas" could very well mean "Daughter of Atlantis" in a more figurative sense -like how someone might call Americans "Sons of America." This could mean that they represent seven groups of Atlantean survivors.

Now the entire Batabano Bay region where the city was found was also above ground in the Pleistocene and sounds like the description of Atlantis given by Plato with the plains to the east and the mountains to the north. You can actually see what I think was the location of the ruins found by the sub on a satellite map:
www.eosnap.com...

We know that Atlantis was a port city -hence the moats big enough for ships, so it would be located along the Pleistocene epoch shoreline -which is now submerged. We also know there were plains to the west and mountains to the north. So we go along the eastern side of the ocean shelf and go north until we hit mountains. There you can see a very round looking sunken island that looks about right to be Plato's Atlantis. It's nearly perfectly circular so you can't miss it. It's located on the other side of the peninsula across from the Bay of Pigs.

Originally posted by dethduck
The origins of the Atlantis "myth" is no great secret. It is simply a story created by Plato. It was never anything more or less than that. It NEVER appears anywhere in history, archeological or otherwise; before then or afterwards except in reference to or influenced by Plato's story.

Some believed his tale was influenced by past events such as the Battle of Troy, while others think he was retelling more recent events. To me it sounds more like a idealized romanticized version of the Roman Empire.

It might sound like that, but it certainly is not that.

The rest of what you say here is absolutely correct, though.

I would add another scam artist - "Madame" Helena Blavatski - to the list of con artists that have made livings off claiming Plato's allegory to be factual.

Blavatski is certainly where Cayce got his ideas.

Originally posted by dethduckNow, Lemuria and Mu on the other hand, I couldn't begin to speculate. I am however inclined to wonder that Hawaii might not be that remnant of one of these.

While I understand your point, the fact is, you need to look into this.

The term "Lemuria" was coined by science as the name of a hypothetical land bridge in the Indian Ocean to explain the presence of lemur fossils on the mainland when lemurs are (today) only found in Madagascar.

It was Blavatski that took this hypothesis and ran with it, claiming all sorts of racists crapola about the inhabitants of Lemuria.

Later, when plate tectonics was discovered, Lemuria was shown to be an empty hypothesis.

Mu was a truly bad "mistranslation" of some Maya glyphs by Churchward (IIRC.) He "translated" an entire story about an Egyptian queen ("Queen Moo") that came to S. America and then later went on to found a dynasty in the land of Mu (spelled "Moo" by Churchward.)

Turned out the glyphs he was reading weren't even words (mostly.) The greater part of what he thought was a semi-"history" we know today to be a treatise on the Mayan calendar and Mayan astronomy.

So, no, Mu and Lemuria never existed either.

But Slayer, I know how much work you put in to this. Too bad you can't get a decent conversation going here about the ancient past without the fringe chiming in about ET building the pyramids or whatever.

Anyway, thanks for the pics and the quotes from wiki, et al.

Harte

reply to post by SLAYER69


Great post, I wonder, it is said that Atlantis and Lemuria were advanced civilisations.
I see no advanced stuff, just stuff carved in rocks, maybe they were advanced spiritualy, not about tec.
Except of the clay pot batteries with the iron rod I would say there is nothing, guess the aliens did not leave anything behind.

Originally posted by Kandinsky


Despite that, it's striking that a culture could engineer such a site if the accepted time frames are accurate. Clovis culture is thought to have developed 13kya in N America. If we allow for transient migrations all the way down to what we call Peru in S America, it's intriguing to imagine how such a complex society could arise in such a short time frame. It suggests that it took 7000 years from the arrival of the Clovis people (hunter-gatherers) to migrate to beyond Central America and evolve a society of such scale and organisation.

Depends on who you believe.

The site at Monte Verde Chile predates Clovis by a thousand years, giving the SA locals over 13,000 years to develop the culture.

However, the Monte Verde dates were (last I looked) being called into question once again, after they had finally been accepted.

Harte

Originally posted by Apophis137
As for the sunken city off of Cuba I think a good case could be made to connect that to Atlantis.

The local Aztecs have a legend of coming from a sunken island to the east called "Aztalan" which of course sounds an awful lot like Atlantis. Then there is the Isle of Youth to the south of Cuba which according to the Aztec legend the place where the survivors of Aztalan went after it was sunk.

Sorry, but you have misstated the Aztec's own legend.

They left Aztlan for political reasons and migrated south (they say south, not west.)

There is no legend that Aztlan "sank." One Aztec legend describes it as an island surrounded by a marsh. That's about it.

Aztlan is a Nahuatl word. You might find the history of that language particularly interesting. It is part of the Uto-Aztecan language family. Other speakers of Uto-Aztecan languages include tribes of the North American northwest. Including the Utes, after whom the state of Utah was named.

And, oh yeah, there is no sunken city off Cuba.

Harte

Well Slayer you worked your magic again. I love how you present your research Now to wait until part III! Great job Man!!!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Slayer you've outdone yourself once again, thanks for putting out part-2 well worth the wait. The Olmecs was one that historians never put alot of time in even though they where the first in that area. I didn't know three things one that they built pyramids (Great Pyramid of Cholula), two that image of the great head with a different face (longer pointed nose instead of the african faces), and three that the Aztecs came to the Pyramid of the Sun complex and called it that and made it theirs even though it may have been the Olmecs buildings. It occurred to me that they where able to properly carve visages of people and things, so what they saw may have been a close approximation of the people that populated their cities and areas including rulers. The Great Pyramod of Cholula is extremely large and as you said have a more advanced feel to it in building and design compared to the ones that came after. It's said to have had 5 miles worth of tunnels excavated and they still are more to be done to it, but issues with the colonial church that sits atop of the pyramid (Catholicism did this all the time to negate another peoples religion or co-opt it).

"The original Nahuatl name was Cholōllān. Probably composed of the two roots "choloa" "to flee" or its nominalized form "chololiztli" "flight" and the locative suffix -tlān meaning "place of" - making the names meaning something close to "place of flight"." Which means the pyramid may of been a place of refugee, which helps to tie in with the flood and legend and the abandonment of Teotihuacan (which is still up to debate about who built the place even though MSM says the Aztecs, wiki the place). The Aztecs say that Cholula was built by one of the 7 giants that survived the flood, his name was Xelhua (always always giants, what is this fascination about giants hmmmmmmm). It could be that when the flood cataclysm happened and knocked all the built structures and monuments at that time to the ground or under water. The people at the time decided to abandon the areas and the jungles and sands of time took over until centuries later people (descendants of the inhabitants or others) came upon these structures and decided to make them their own because THEIR GODS MADE THEM. Because why else would they be their without nobody in them unless it was pre-ordained for them.

What I would like to know is:

Since the Church was built on top of the Cholula pyramid it had to have been a dirt hill before someone dug and saw the stones. Have they carbon dated the soil or brick or whatever to determine how long it may have been encased in soil?

Also those Dolmens, I think they where used for something else rather than a burial stone hut. But one thing can be said about them, they are across this planet.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

S&F for you...Wow what a great thread ! I just reading pt1&2 .I took your advise in this part and read 1 first .I am not threw all the comments yet but I couldn't go any further without congregating you on your work and creative mind .I don't find any part of your theory hard to comprehend and visualize . Hey about the oceans being allot less volume .Do you think that a sort of ecosystem operating at that time and place was like maybe cool rains come in over the mountains daily .Replenish water cisterns or even water channels to control the waters flow out to sea ..In the video it says that its 20 miles from the ocean but like you speculate that may have been further back then .

Verry interesting read for sure ...looking forward to the next instalment ...peace ps.in alot of north American native languages the word for the geological location usually represents the distinction . Memramcook is a migmaw word that means crooked . And believe me the memramcook river is crooked .Just maybe a clue in the myth .

OK Slayer, i finally had time to read through your presentation. Good stuff, well compiled. Thanks for taking the time/effort.

Something to add for you. You talk about the possibility of volcanic eruption and tsunami....

...something that has always bugged me is why the people of Northern Europe were not as seafaring as peoples in southern climates. The Irish nearly died off in a potato famine instead of going fishing, you know?

Stories you hear from the more ancient times talk about horrible waves, maelstroms, monsters....the stories of the ocean make it sound like a place for certain death.

Then in North America you see evidence of some strange occurances (i covered these with The Way I See It a couple of years ago). Something you may want to look into are drumlin hills. We had seen in them evidence of deluge coming from the northern ice shelf post meteor impact. perhaps you can fit them in somewhere, or find other evidences elsewhere.

but to the point of Atlantis...what if there were a sunken island? Something happened to take a large island beneath the waves? We have seen evidence of stuff like this happening (the spanish mission that disappeared along with the island it was on, and the stories from other sailors about missing/new islands). If the land mass was large enough it would definitely cause some of the maelstroms and deadly currents of N. Euro legend. And the opening of the Gulf current would have changed the climate, warming the north.

Just some ideas to throw out there. Bit bleary eyed, so take it for what its worth.

if i can put a coherent thought together, i will discuss the Andes mountains, and evidence of massive deluge that I have seen in south america.