Satan and Science, His Creation to Mislead

Originally posted by nophunWait .. what ? Why would it not be possible for "sinners" to get into heaven in the first place ? God is .. well you know god .. the whole omnipotent creator of everthing ? Seriously you are going to try to tell me "God" created everything. Humans acted naughty, this pissed the omnipotent creator right off but he loves us. Instead of just forgiving us, he felt it was necessary to reincarnate himself as his own son ... to be brutally murdered.

(1) Every religion that refers to heaven says sinners cannot enter. (Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, etc...). It is a common acknowledgment across many religions who reference heaven.

(2) Yes, God is god. Since the bible was inspired by the word of God, do you not think God would have also established instructions? Guess what. He did. Even though religious sects want to be involved with those instructions, God was very clear on how to be a member of his church. Not church the building, but church the living embodiment of God's people.

(3) Does god immediately forgive people? No. Unless you 'seriously' confess your sins through Christ (Christianity), God himself (Judaism), or seek enlightenment (Buddhism), you are pretty much out of luck on all accounts.

(4) You made a very BIG error. God did not reincarnate himself into Christ. Before Christ was ever even thought of, God did not have an earthly form. Jesus Christ was born into this world through a virgin birth. He was the human form of 'the Lord'.

It is all about being responsible for your own freewill. If you abuse your freewill and break god's laws, without 'a serious confession', you are pretty much out of luck. Since God can see through motives and emotions, that confession better have some meaning behind it.

FYI - Sinners also never-ever get a chance to see God's face. Sinners who do not confess are lost before ever meeting the creator.

It is God's law. It is not up to us to seek salvation for you. It is up to you to seek salvation for yourself. Freewill.

Originally posted by Section31

(1) Every religion that refers to heaven says sinners cannot enter. (Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, etc...). It is a common acknowledgment across many religions who reference heaven.

I am well aware many religions believe in a afterlife.

Originally posted by Section31
2) Yes, God is god. Since the bible was inspired by the word of God, do you not think God would have also established instructions? Guess what. He did. Even though religious sects want to be involved with those instructions, God was very clear on how to be a member of his church. Not church the building, but church the living embodiment of God's people.

Okay so you have a imaginary friend, and have decided that because people years before you shared this imaginary friend you should do what they wrote down. If you take this God inspired book so serious why do you not drink a bottle of drano ? Why are you not throwing rocks at peoples head .. for working on the sabbath?

Originally posted by Section31
(3) Does god immediately forgive people? No. Unless you 'seriously' confess your sins through Christ (Christianity), God himself (Judaism), or seek enlightenment (Buddhism), you are pretty much out of luck on all accounts.

Why ? Pretty dick move by god.
(side note you should stick to the Abrahamic religions)

Originally posted by Section31
(4) You made a very BIG error. God did not reincarnate himself into Christ. Before Christ was ever even thought of, God did not have an earthly form. Jesus Christ was born into this world through a virgin birth. He was the human form of 'the Lord'.

No I made a BIG mistake according to your beliefs. Other theist will agree with me, others will disagree with us both. Anyway this does not change the fact that it is bat# crazy. Forget everything I said but "The omnipotent creators only way to forgive us is to have his son born a virgin birth and have him brutal murdered."

Yup completely rational statement right there.

To try to get back on topic. .


Confirmed devil dun it?

reply to post by nophun

After reading through your reply, I wonder if you are trying to rationalize something. Even though I respect your opinion about Christianity, I think there is something much deeper to your rage. Whatever it is you are trying to deal with, I hope you will find some sort of answer. Christianity, Judaism, and Buddhism keep open doors to those who seek out more enlightened answers. Scientists, psychologists, philosophers, teachers, and many-many more people walk in a Christian or Judaism world.

You might not be ready for religion, or you may never-ever come around to the practice. When it comes to the rejection or acceptance of Christianity (or any other religion), the only person who can make such assessment is yourself. Under your own freewill. No one will take that away from you.

Originally posted by nophunConfirmed devil dun it?

If you do not believe in the Christian and Jewish God (or any religion at all), the existence of the devil is also not in your lexicon. Since God created Lucifer, the devil's original name, the concept behind the devil will also not have any significance to you. So, how do you know the devil was responsible for science? You would not have any concept for such an entity.

*shrugs*

You came in here to bash religion. You did not come in here to have an intellectual conversation.

Originally posted by Section31
reply to post by nophun
If you do not believe in the Christian and Jewish God (or any religion at all), the existence of the devil is also not in your lexicon. Since God created Lucifer, the devil's original name, the concept behind the devil will also not have any significance to you. So, how do you know the devil was responsible for science? You would not have any concept for such an entity

I obviously do not believe in the devil or any supernatural being, that would be silly.
It was sarcasm used to get back on topic. You know the one about science being the devil. Have you even read the original post ? How about any of my posts ?

Implying I am being irrational or having a fit of rage is like every time someone does not agree with Christianity screaming Christian persecution. You are completely ignoring what is said, refusing to give a legitimate answer or comment.

I grew out of religion about the same time I grew out of Santa Claus. See my rage ?

You came in here to bash religion. You did not come in here to have an intellectual conversation.

Oh for the lulz .. what the hell ..

Naughty boys and girls also never-ever get a chance to see Santa Claus' face. Naughty boys and girls who are not nice are lost before ever meeting Santa Claus.

Rational enough for you ?

f you do not believe in the Christian and Jewish God (or any religion at all), the existence of the devil is also not in your lexicon. Since God created Lucifer,

You have done this a bunch. Stop saying any religion and then following by "God created Lucifer" That is your belief. That is the belief of most Christians and Jews but is not the belief of other religions .. Most religions do not believe in anyone named Lucifer. Are you doing this on purpose or are you really that silly to think there is only followers of the abrahamic god myth ?

Originally posted by kinglizard
1) Does knowledge and use of the sciences serve the Devil?
2) Is it true that the more technological and "advanced" a society becomes the more likely they will turn from God to serve the other?
3) Has science and technology killed more people than any other single thing?

OK... I'm going to tackle this (and, yes, I've read all your posts in this thread). You've mentioned the Amish and that hits me right where I live... smack dab in the middle of a huge population living a lifestyle I not only admire but wish I could successfully emulate without the dogmatic baggage that comes with the 'belonging'.

I like their hardiness, way with horses and other animals, expertly constructed buildings, cooking, thriftiness, friendliness and a thousand other attributes. They use computers and cell phones, bicycles and roller blades, play baseball and are not near as dour as a first glance might show. They're great at small business and are, by far, the most desirable carpenters you can find.

Yes... there's a lot to be said about the 'old ways' and I, for one, admire them and am glad to have them as close neighbours.

Now, though, I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into the works.

Where I stand, God didn't create the universe, God became the universe. How then, if that were to be truth, do your three questions quoted above stack up?

Does knowledge and use of the sciences serve the Devil?

No. It serves mankind alone. We are gifted with creativity and are able to use it in whatever way we feel fit. It has been our most closely held universal joy to make enemies among ourselves and to devise cruel methods and devices with which to dispatch those we determine as being dangerous OR having too much of a good thing to themselves. This is what humans do, mostly... besides reproduce. If one wants to call that devilish, I suppose it fits.

On the other hand, we also are capable of creating things which are beneficial to life. We do that almost as well as killing, but not quite. If one were to tally up the entire number of people killed through violent acts, such as crime or war over the course of the last century, I'd bet we're getting better at it compared to centuries past. Now, if one were to count the numbers of people whose lives were saved through science (hospitals, pharmaceudicals, common medical knowhow), it would be interesting to compare just what it is we're better at in the 21st century.

Getting back to the Amish, I'm amazed to see them bringing their sick and injured into hospitals these days. It wasn't always that way, you know... and they DO have to pay cash for treatment here in Canada. That tells me they are not allowing out-dated dogma to stand in the way of healing their sick and injured.

I guess what I'm saying is that the devil is the evil in us. It's what we're capable of if we allow ourselves to go to the 'Dark Side'.

Is it true that the more technological and advanced a society becomes the more likely they will turn from God to serve the other?

With the advent of nuclear weapons, we have had a period of relative peace simply because waging a global war would kill just about everybody, MADness. Our technological advances have brought us to the brink where going forward is certain annihilation. Oh, that's just so perfect!

But you ask if we turn from God. About a week ago, I watched a fascinating interview on Larry King Live. It was with Steven Hawking, a physicist co-writer of his from Cal Tech, a VERY intelligent Jesuit and Deepak Chopra. The question asked was if God was really needed to create the universe. Of course, the scientists said no... that the universe would be created through natural laws and physics anyways. The Jesuit and Chopra, of course, disagreed, but in a friendly way and speaking of how something cannot come from nothing without a divine spark.

What NONE of them denied was the existence of God. That was most interesting. The scientists and spiritually inclined all agreed that there was 'something more' to life than just nature.

So, no... I don't think we're turning away from God, we are just gaining a new understanding of what the Deity might be.

Has science and technology killed more people than any other single thing?

No. It's not the gun that kills, it's the mind that wants to pull the trigger that kills. Greed, hate, jealousy... all those negative impulses, that can grow out of a million different manifestations based on reason and impulse, is what has caused the most death and destruction throughout the ages. If 6 billion people all decide, at the same time, to kill as many as they can with a club, then they will accomplish everything that science has ever provided for weaponry, including the neutron bomb. All it takes is a 'unity of intent'.

reply to post by kinglizard


Your personal belief in your god and your religion aside, I'm pretty sure Ted Kaczynski would agree with you.

Satan has no physical powers. He's just a voice. He lost his body for his actions.

So now, when it's convenient in an argument, pauline 'christians' share similar doctrines with other religions/religious-like systems and they're all great pals. What a pleasant change from the last two thousand years of backstabbing, genocides and hysterical propaganda for 'christian' monopoly.

This sudden spirit of inclusive brotherhood has no basis in reality at all. Most asian religions are based on doctrines or experiental methods, which generally are quite different from 'christianity'.

Pseudo-arguments of this kind is what I've come to expect from 'christian' fundamentalists, who hasn't anything else to come with. As on this thread also an effort to brush up 'intelligent design', one of the most stupid and embarrasing PR tricks 'christians' ever invented.

Satanic science and 'christian' fake science, which is worse?

Oh my this thread has taken some turns.

Forgive me if I am repetitious, I did not read the whole thread.

Has Satan used science to mislead man form God?

For Clarity let me define the terms.

God, the universe, all of existence. Intelligent in design, yet undefinable for its vastness. The Alpha and Omega.
Man - a part of God, distinctly separate from the whole.
Satan - the ego, a part of Man separate from the whole.

So here is my thoughts:

Satan has not lead Man from God with anything but his own delussion. Being lead from God is impossible because Satan is a part of Man who is a part of God. Satan has blinded Man of his connection with God. Having no connection with God, ie no understanding of his higher purpose, Man has succumbed to the lower drives of the ego and focuses on the self. Everything Man does in life these days is for the self. We study to improve our lot in life. We accumulate wealth that we may be viewed as better than others. We defend our own ideals that others may yield their own to ours. Even our laws are written merely to bring others under the control of ourselves. We judge others that we may see ourselves as better. Self, self, self and the Ego grows strong.

Thus, it is natural that our sciences are being misused. We only have them to improve ourselves. No study is under taken that does not return a pleasure to the self, either by fame or fortune. When is the last time a great discovery was made and it was published anonymously?

All this self gratification will only lead to mass destruction. We can only compete for so long before we master every conceivable way to raise ourselves over others.

Imagine what we could do with this creation if we listened to Gods one commandment, Love. The merging of Science with faith in God and his one Law would transport us to a golden age of discovery. An age where we all worked together for our betterment. No money, no fame, no personal gain, but ALL sharing equally with ALL.

It's coming. We will get there. Just takes a little hell fire to burn away our ego's that we may learn. Patiently, God awaits.

With Love,

Your Brother

How many people has science fed? It could feed all but enough is not enough for us.

reply to post by kinglizard


Love and compassion has fed more people than science EVER could

reply to post by Yissachar1

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Love and compassion has fed more people than science EVER could

Actually, you're entirely and demonstrably wrong.

Meet someone who is quite possibly the most admirable man in human history:Norman Borlaug

His scientific advancements have fed hundreds of millions (if not billions) of people and will continue to do so.

Then there's crop rotation, modern fertilization, modern irrigation, modern pesticides and the predecessors to all of those.
All of that is scientific and all of that has fed more people than compassion. Why? Because where would these compassionate people have gotten the food from without the scientific side of things?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


I enjoyed checking out the link you provided. Heck! People of blind faith will believe in anything.
I guess that's there delusional bubble.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Actually, you're entirely and demonstrably wrong.

My friend,

I do not see how your link has proven the previous poster "wrong". If anything, your link proved the previous poster correct. Love and compassion drove the man to use science to feed those millions.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

I enjoyed checking out the link you provided. Heck! People of blind faith will believe in anything.
I guess that's there delusional bubble.

My friend, I understand you are a "proud" Atheist, and apparently striving for the "Proudest Atheist of ATS" award, but is it really necessary to constantly put down people of faith, in every comment you make, regardless of whether you yourself have been attacked?

That kind of behavior leads one to think you are not so secure in your own disbelief, having to assert it at every moment and such.

Think about it my friend.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


True! I shouldn't be disrespectful. As a person of politics. I love to debate and I do get head over heels. Chicken is delicious.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by IAMIAM

 

True! I shouldn't be disrespectful. As a person of politics. I love to debate and I do get head over heels. Chicken is delicious.

LOLThank you for understanding my point my friend.

I hear chicken tastes like Extra Terrestrials.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


Thanks!
Yes it does and I'm becoming more alien from everyone else. Since they eat stake all the time.

1) what's funny is that Satan is Lucifer, the Light bringer, and science is the light of truth, so I guess knowledge does serve the devil. After all, it was the snake that freed Adam and Eve from the ignorance they were in while imprisoned in the garden of eden (metaphor for: ignorant innocence).

2) For some, but not for all. Thanks to technology, I have discovered many enlightening and Godly works of philosophy and mysticism. Thanks technology. After all, technology is not good or evil but dependent upon who uses it.

3) More than famine? (I won't even mention God killing people in the bible since I don't believe that is true).

Knowledge does not make Man no longer need God, knowledge makes Man equal to God.

I'm not going to defend smoke stacks, so I'll admit they are pollutants, but then again so are chem trails.

As for the picture of the famished African, I have two things to say to you, really one thing and a question

1. African genocide, caused by the diamond trade, has led to famine. This is not so much technology as political power.

2. Have you donated to help that starving African?

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


Why waste your time by substituting satan with satin. Satin is not the issue. the original post was clearly and obviously about satan. I do not have an opinion stating satan is real or even that satan is effecting the modern world but do not patronise someone who is being serious.

I believe that 'satan' is a human invention for the most part and used for an excuse. Everyone is inherently good and only a minority choose the dark side. Love is what makes us humans grow.

Grow up

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Yissachar1

 

Originally posted by Yissachar1
Love and compassion has fed more people than science EVER could

Actually, you're entirely and demonstrably wrong.

Meet someone who is quite possibly the most admirable man in human history:Norman Borlaug

His scientific advancements have fed hundreds of millions (if not billions) of people and will continue to do so.

Then there's crop rotation, modern fertilization, modern irrigation, modern pesticides and the predecessors to all of those.
All of that is scientific and all of that has fed more people than compassion. Why? Because where would these compassionate people have gotten the food from without the scientific side of things?

edit on 10/8/10 by madnessinmysoul because: Reworded a sentence.

Really?

**SNIP**


Look through history right to your mom and dad and you..

I suppose science fed us?

It had its part but it is love and compassion for each other that drove that.. Survival.. That of each other..

Your mom fed you.. Was that science?..

We gave to africa.. Was that science or compassion?

You have a lot to learn.. The fact you cannot see a simple truth is proof enough..

Science did not feed the billions who went before us.. It was a tool.. But love and compassion was the driving force..

Prove me wrong..

It still is..