Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

reply to post by oozyism


It's simple. People can create evidence these days. A good photoshoper with a good witness can bring down the world. It no longer becomes free speech. It becomes deception.

Worst is when they take proof and skew it to something else. This is a commonly done task in so many places on Earth. The pope started a crusade because the Spaniards wanted the spice trade but provided proof that the Muslims were doing naughty things to people visiting. There might have been some proof, but nothing some diplomacy could not fix.

That is why we must ban it. Because when people start seriously questioning simple things like this, it's like debating weather or not the sun comes up. It becomes a slow but steady decay of truth until their truth becomes the truth.

One thing I've always loved:


And today, the oppressed become the oppressors. How often does Israel doe the same thing with Palestine that deniers do with the holocaust?

Hell. I said in another topic that I'd favor the Koran with the bible in every shelf because I was that committed to my faith that I was not afraid of being compared to it. However. We cannot photoshop or change what is written in the bible or Koran. We can with history.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Hemisphere

 

oh i don't think they were ashkenazis anyway. i think the ones getting killed were primarily sephardis.

I bow to your knowledge on this undo. The jest of the post remains despite my sketchy knowledge of the exact lineages. In a nutshell, many were sacrificed so a few would benefit. Thanks!

reply to post by SLAYER69


part of that disproportionate figure is as a result of the christian community realizing it as a sign of prophecy fulfillment. almost everything happening with israel at this moment, is prophetical in nature. anything leading up to the recreation of israel, is prophetical in nature. you get the idea. that's why we all loooooove this

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by patmac

 

That would be the large smoking chimneys with the smell of human flesh coming out.... yea silly pants. They existed.


Also, 6 million did die, as with many others. It is a none issue. If you want to continue to debate what is solid in stone, go ahead. But no one is going to listen to you silly pants. For such blatantly retarded issues it should be a law. Like how 1/3rd of Americans don't know the Earth revolved around the sun. For such blatant retardation, they should be charged with some kind of stupid fee for being leaches to the nation.

If all your going to do is stifle debate or discussion your committing something equally as bad as all other injustices in the world. The moment you tell someone you cant discuss a topic your becoming fascist. meaning you are trying to exert undue control over another living being. hopefully you and others with similar concepts as your own will look in the mirror and either refrain form deliberately making yourself and ideas an obstacle to discussion by being silent or contributing to the discussion. Their isn't an "appropriate third option to be a tool of fascist mentality it's simply unacceptable. I Believe we should be free to discuss any topic to come to a truth or find out more information. The day we stop trying to gather all available information on a topic is the day we become willfully ignorant of the whole truth.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I would highly recommend "IBM and the Holocaust" by Edwin Black. He delves into this quite deeply. And he is Jewish.

reply to post by Hemisphere


i could be wrong lol i ain't a prophet.

i'm sure some ashkenazis died as well, it's just i see it as much a religious vs. non religious jews thing as i do a hitler thing.

reply to post by Logarock

As you can see from the article, but no one has mentioned it, Oliver Stone's father was jewish.

One can call Oliver Stone a self hating jew, though by jewish religious law he isn't, but you can't call him a nazi sympathizer unless you call a black man who uses the n word a klan sympathizer. You are allowed to say what you like about your own people.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

part of that disproportionate figure is as a result of the christian community realizing it as a sign of prophecy fulfillment.

Well maybe if we all stopped with the huge sweeping generalizations. I'm not aware of ALL Christians believing in this prophecy

reply to post by LurkingSleipner


There's nothing wrong with fascism. Just how you use it. National socialism, a more appropriate term, in fact is a very good thing. It's just that it cannot go for more than a generation without being hijacked. And thus it belongs with communism. Ideal governments that cannot work with human nature.

I'm not trying to control anyone though. It's simply a fact that when wrong statements are stated, they should be shot down. Now if you don't like that, well we don't have places for people who believe in lies. So carry on and enjoy life. Just don't expect to be taken seriously.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by Gorman91


??

Ofcurse history can be manipulated, but did you know history is written by the victors?

So how much of the current history do you suppose is fabrication? And exaggeration? I made a comparison.

History has no meaning, but a tool to learn of.

It has no other meaning.

For someone to imprison a historian, is idiotic the least.

Ultimately what you are saying is that only one side can manipulate history? And that is the Holocaust deniers? That just goes to prove the holocaust deniers points even more. You have to put in your post that it isn't just the holocaust deniers who can manipulate history.

You have to also admit that Jews, Americans, the Allied Forces, the Russia, USSR... They can all manipulate history, and usually if you view history, usually history shows victors as good, and losers as bad.

But victors become losers, losers become victors, so history is nothing but manipulation, exaggeration, lies and deception. The only thing you need history for, is to learn, to learn from you mistakes.

There is enough evidence of such mistakes. History is filled with it, you can go thousands of years back, and still you can learn.

Originally posted by oozyism
Americans, the Allied Forces, the Russia, USSR... They can all manipulate history, and usually if you view history, usually history shows victors as good, and losers as bad.

The problem with that analogy is that the Soviets and Eastern Bloc countries had a diametrically apposed world view of things than the US/Western allies did and as a result the two versions of events were more often than not at odds with one another.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


true true. allow me to rephrase.
alot of, but NOT ALL, christians think anything to do with israel is prophecy fulfillment.
however, we ALL loooove this

reply to post by SLAYER69

The problem with that analogy is that the Soviets and Eastern Bloc countries had a diametrically apposed world view of things than the US/Western allies did and as a result the two version of events are often at odds with one another.

Yes, one side has to completely collapse like Germany, in that case, the loser won't be able to oppose history being written, because they will be under the submission of the winner.

reply to post by SLAYER69

The problem with that analogy is that the Soviets and Eastern Bloc countries had a diametrically apposed world view of things than the US/Western allies did and as a result the two version of events are often at odds with one another.

Yes, one side has to completely collapse like Germany, in that case, the loser won't be able to oppose history being written, because they will be under the submission of the winner.

I, along with I'd guess most people here, am too young to personally know what terrible atrocities were committed during those two World Wars. One thing I do know however is that with everyone seems to have an opinion about it. Its either "jew-haters" or "jew-lovers" remarks and it's sad that people get stuck in their ways/beliefs.

And as to US companies helping Hitler, I know IBM sold him counting machines, at great profit I imagine, so he could keep accurate records of prisoners. Now I don't know how many people died during the Holocaust, but debating and researching the issue can't hurt anybody unless someone is lying. Maybe we'll find out even more Jews died than the accepted numbers. Either way, it doesn't negate the fact that lots of people died, not just Jews.

My 2 cents.

reply to post by oozyism


if history is always written by the victors, and we are currently under the victorious zioniist world domination scheme, how come american history books all talk about those horrible christian crusaders?

sometimes ya just can't help yerself. you see it and it screams, HERE'S YOUR CHANCE!

reply to post by oozyism


It's a simple road block to get through. Just remove insults and expect numbers to be blows up. History happened as it was written in almost 90% of the time. the other 10% leaves obvious clues that later generations take from. Thus far no real evidence suggests less than 6 million people were killed, or 5.93 if you want to be exact. The numbers were blown up, and now they have reached their true level.

The simple reason it is a crime is because of past experiences. To their credit, although Europeans have a long history of being racist and evil, they actually did try to clean up their act after Hitler. Perhaps it took one to go that far down the road of evil to make the rest go good.

The facts are simple. Europe realized how racist they were, and so chose to stop being racist. Although the last racist thing they did is kick the Jews out all together.

So criminalizing talks on the holocaust will create more people to support the deniers on the simple fact that many want to fight something. But in the long run, down 100 years or so, no one will care about it anymore and the numbers will be written in stone. Weather the numbers aren't exact really doesn't matter. Over a million people were killed based on their ethnicity. Hitler was evil. Europe was racist. These are simple facts of history.

To compare it to something I am much more knowing in, in architecture we have a history of all this overdone crap and Victorian BS. So what modernists decided to do is reduce it to its most basic meaning. Take away the column and make it a cylinder. Make the window a simple square. Get rid of all this useless crappy Victorian beautification. We still have a structure that is just as truthful as the Victorian crap. It just had all the crap removed.


In the same way, history will have lies. This is a simple proof. But we still have the basic concepts of proof. Hitler killed Jews to scapegoat someone, create an enemy, and make his people love him. Hitler used the racism of Europe to his advantage. To reduce it, at least one million people died. Enough to say a genocide occurred. SO we have a reduce but still truthful history.

Now others, like myself, prefer more exact numbers. 5.93 or 6 million Jews were killed. So you can say at least a million. But to defend it would be stupid. So I'm more like a post-modernist I suppose.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by LurkingSleipner

 

There's nothing wrong with fascism. Just how you use it. National socialism, a more appropriate term, in fact is a very good thing. It's just that it cannot go for more than a generation without being hijacked. And thus it belongs with communism. Ideal governments that cannot work with human nature.

I'm not trying to control anyone though. It's simply a fact that when wrong statements are stated, they should be shot down. Now if you don't like that, well we don't have places for people who believe in lies. So carry on and enjoy life. Just don't expect to be taken seriously.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Not trying to control anyone? Your first few posts were calling the discussion of the holocaust a non-issue and didn't need discussion, stating people shouldn't talk about it and calling people "retarded" in your posts for even thinking about discussing it. That seems like your trying to control what people can talk about. And when i said fascism i was referring to your attitude towards others as apparent by your first postings in this topic. You do not rule the world or this forum and people are free to discuss this topic as they wish to gain more information if they so choose.

Ex A-

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Europe hated Jews, Germany tried to ship them off. Couldn't. Killed them instead. Europe did not like Germany off the banks, went to war, discovered holocaust, was sad. Jews got homeland.

End of debate. Stop beating a dead horse.

Ex B-

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ~Lucidity

 

6 million did die, as well as many others. More importantly was the ever more killed by Stalin who got away with it.

None the less, there should be control. Because once you start debating over non issues like is the Earth round or is Mars red? Then you start a long process of decay and destruction and forgetting history.

6 million died, as well as poles, gypsies, Catholics, and other groups. Mostly Jews, however, because of the fact that they were hated by Europeans.

The only way to forget history is to not discuss it and simply accept everything you hear as divine fact. That is not how the world works no matter how much you wish it did. And I don't know about anyone else but unless there is undeniable proof most governments cannot be trusted to be telling the truth 100% of the time, just look to the human experiments conducted by federal agencies, mainly the CIA and the armed forces research divisions.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by LurkingSleipner]

reply to post by undo

Those were different Christians

reply to post by lucid eyes


Considering the vast majority of anti-Semites are actually on the right, your assertion is laughable.

I do not agree with Stone in theis case, but a man who is Jewish can hardly be an anti-Semite