Everyday I check the News I SEE THE DEATH OF OCCUPIERS

reply to post by oozyism


3,000 people were killed on 9/11. We apparently felt we should be safe and secure in our country, so the death of 3,000 people puts us into war. We lose double that amount in war, not to mention the untold amount of people who lost limbs and are disfigured (just on our side alone). How many innocents have been killed. Yes, I am sorry the deaths of millions over the loss of 3,000 people is just hardly not worth it. Something stinks about this war and our leadership. Hopefully, some day these bastards will be exposed for the war crimes they have engaged in.

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
3,000 people were killed on 9/11.

And there's a big IF in who "did it".

Besides, officially the 911 has nothing to do with Iraq, or especially Afghanistan. It was simply used to anger the public towards something other than government.

[edit on 18/7/2010 by SassyCat]

Originally posted by mobiusmale

Look, it's real simple on a few fronts:

1) You started a war that you lost.

Who, the Afghans? The Afghans resisting foreign occupation? They did not start the war, allegedly Saudi hijackers did (so we are told), in allegedly hosting Bin Laden, the Taliban asked for proof of evidence of wrongdoing by Bin Laden before handing him over to the US. Simple request really.

Instead, Afghanistan was invaded.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
2) The U.S. and the Allies are now absorbing needless casualties, while they are trying to get the country back on its feet.

You don't get a country back on it's feet through drones, air strikes, gunfire and endless killing, nor supporting a corrupt and dubiously undemocratic government run by druglords, war lords and corrupt oil men.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
3) If the insurgency had any brains at all, they would go completely quiet for a couple of years, and allow the Western powers to draw down their forces.

But if the insurgents went quiet, it would encourage foreign governments to make their foreign forces to stay and protect the business interests in Afghanistan.

The insurgents don't want that, they want their country no longer to be occupied by what they see as invaders of their land, who have brought death and destruction to their land when their country had already seen enough to last a lifetime. So they fight on.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
4) Then they can continue their murderous ways with a then largely undefended Afghan population and try to take over again.

If we are to call the Afghan insurgents murderous when civillians are killed in an explosion targetting foreign troops, we must also call the foreign troops murderous for killing civillians when targeting the insurgents.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
5) Then, if they are real smart, they will draw the line at directly attacking the U.S. or its Allies again.

The insurgents are quite smart, achieving the objectives of an insurgency against a foreign occupier: Target the occupier, target the collaborators of the occupier. They are targetting the infrastructure of occupation, and those who abide by it.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
But, they are not smart. They continue to kill and maim personnel who are simply tasked with infrastructure rebuilding (at our cost !!!!) and population protection.

I'll repeat what I said.

You don't get a country back on it's feet through drones, air strikes, gunfire and endless killing, nor supporting a corrupt and dubiously undemocratic government run by druglords, war lords and corrupt oil men.

And you say "at our cost!!!", well, whose fault is that? Certainly not the Afghans, perhaps you should look closer to home, at the echelons of power, where your tax money is going.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
You came and killed our citizens. So, we came and kicked your primitive behinds.

Who is the more primitive, the nation that invades other countries when such countries (Afghanistan, Iraq) and organisations (Taliban, Baathists) are not to blame for September 11th 2001, or the nation that has a history of defeating invaders?

Originally posted by mobiusmale
Just let us do our (nowadays) liberal thing, and pay to rebuild your country into a 21st century player, and let us go back home.

And for the third time...You don't get a country back on it's feet through drones, air strikes, gunfire and endless killing, nor supporting a corrupt and dubiously undemocratic government run by druglords, war lords and corrupt oil men.

Originally posted by mobiusmale
Don't come back to kill any more of us, and you will have a great future (just look at how things turned out for Japan and Germany after their own insane periods).

The Afghan insurgents will feel compelled to kill those that invade and occupy their lands.

Japan and Germany? Those wars were not about occupying their countries and seizing opium and gas.

The Afghan insurgents are not stupid, this war is not about making their lives better but seizing their country's resources to make a buck.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by Regensturm]

Yeah it's very sad. I have been keeping up on this at this thread, but it isn't getting attention. I'm glad to see your thread is getting some attention.

War on terror deaths

A link is also in my signature

Originally posted by righteyered
Those soldiers who were 20 when they died there were only 11 years old when this war started. We're having a generation that grows up only knowing war.

I would tend to disagree with such an assessment.

As pure fact, it is true...however, the simple fact of the matter is that in the day to day lives of most Americans they never hear about the war. It is not as it was in WW2, where your daily routine was altered considerably until the end of the war. These small, limited wars that go on forever are meant to fly under the radar, and avoid media exposure once the newness of it all wears off.

Most Americans who are 20, whether they are in the Armed Forces or not, have not experienced the whole story of the war, unless they have been deployed to an active theater of operations. They've been indoctrinated to think that it was won a long time ago, and that we'll eventually leave at some undetermined date down the road.

They haven't really known war...they know we've been at war, and that we won...that we are there to keep the "peace". They know very little, and are exposed to very little of it, and that is one of the worst crimes of modern civilization...the glorification and obfuscation of the horrors of war.

The only ones who do know anything of importance about the war are the young men and women who are there now, experiencing it for themselves.


[edit on 18-7-2010 by Yog-Sothoth]

Every damn day waking up, seeing you people getting killed for a worthless cause. I have been feeling this way for along time, since I have woken up every day since a long time, seeing my people die for useless cause.

So, are you separated from the rest of mankind in our perpetual fight against tyranny and injustice, or are you part of the fight, feeling the pains and struggles of war?

you say "you people" trying to demonize "us" (I'm not really clear who exactly you are referring to) but then say that "your" people are dying, trying to evoke empathy.

Very few people like war, and fortunately, our leaders are in the majority against war. In America, we don't have a draft, we don't even have mandatory service like in other "free" countries.

I'll be the first to agree with you, this war, like any war, sucks. It's bad for both sides. It seems like every other week another one of my friends or peers goes off to the Middle East. But I remind myself that they volunteered for this, their hand was not forced. Those that have died, have not died in vain, as your are implying.

reply to post by oozyism


The trillion dollars of resources. Basically that's why.

Iraq was the same way a few years ago and now they are pretty much fine and dandy. Afghanistan was tucked under the rug and now we have to go and fight more there.

If Obama is good at one thing, it's ending wars. Wait a year and we'll see.

And this isnt even fighting a modern army. We are fighting a bunch of opium farmers in afghan and taxi drivers in iraq. Imagine the body count if we fought a modern army, and they want to start a new war with iran. Russia and china are starting to modernize their army and will support Iran, whooooooooooooeeeeeeweeeeeeeeeeeeee, let the bodies hit the floor.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Considering foot soldiers are bing used here, and against a modern army would not be using foot soldiers, I'd say causatives are pretty low.

hell, this IS pretty low for a war.

Originally posted by ho chi minh
Simple, war is good for business, always has been
always will be.Young men have forever marched off
to war so the elites can prosper.
Over here in the U.K. the BBC and the daily press are like
recruiting services for the armed forces,they make the war
in Afghanistan look so appealing to impressionable young
jobless men.
I have nothing against these lads joining up and choosing this life
but remember who you're fighting for NOT US but THEM.
It may seem heartless but when you boys come home minus a few
limbs,don't tell me your sacrifice was to keep me safe and allow
me to live in a democracy.
That is the last thing you are fighting for......
i wish for all troops come home safe and an end to these insane conflicts..

Peace........

I agree with this statement completely. When i was younger, I thought about joining the Army. Now I am glad I didnt. Dont get me wrong, I have massive respect for the people who do join, but as was said, you end up fighting for oil, profit, and not to keep the people here free from the big nasty terrorists. They make us believe if we think this way, we are unpatriotic, dont care about our country or the people that live in it. It also make you think every muslim is a terrorist. So the gap between "us and them" grows, and the wider the gap, the easier to recriut new soldiers to replace the dead and injured. Imagine, comming home with no legs, just for oil and getting paid, what around £250 a week, fo r bieing a soldier (in the uk anyways). To hell with that, id rather be unemployed

Oozyism is correct. Killing another human being is an extremely unethical act, no matter who the person is. The disagreement that brings war is a fatal mistake and can kill millions.
It doesn't matter whether a soldier, terrorist, or civilian is killed because they are all human beings. The only thing that separates an American soldier from, perhaps, a "suicide bomber" is that the suicide bomber has a troubled mental state that is ultimately caused by them losing the war.
Instead of trying to hurt eachother we should help eachother, and this is a truth to always bring with you. Always remember that every human being deserves the best possible treatment and ever lasting happiness.

Love yourself as your neighbor.

-J

[edit on 18-7-2010 by Keliko favlaka]

If people knew history, they would know that EVERY empire who attempted to control the Middle East, has fallen.

In fact, their downfall, was a DIRECT consequence to attempting any sort of occupation and continuing operations in those countries.

We need to smarten up. Nobody will EVER control the Middle East, certainly not Europe or the West...

~Keeper

reply to post by oozyism


How do you think that Queen Elizabeth and the Royal Family can afford all of their Palaces and wealth ?

Its called buy low and sell high and has worked for the Royals for centuries.Dating back to Queen Victoria who created the very first Opium Drug Cartel.

Why do you think that Pakistan exists today ?

The Indians revolted and kicked the British out who were only using India for growing their opium which they forcing onto the Chinese,by threat of war if the wouldnt allow it into their country.[Treaty of Nangking]

And later Pakistan was created.

Afghanistan has long been sought after by the BritishCrown to cultivate their highly profitable narcotics. That is why they have the Americans fighting to overtake it for them now. And also why opium production has dramatically increased since our occupation resulting in Europe and Russia currently facing epic heroin epidemics.

As far as the war dead are concerned. It fits in perfectly with the the overall agenda of population reduction of the poor. Use of narcotics and war help eliminate millions of the poor and the undesirables such as Blacks and Hispanics on an annual basis.

And if you arent Black or Hispanic and have no other choices in life than to join the Army and go to war, then you too are poor and categorically expendable as well unfortunately.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Actually there have been a number of empires who did fairly well in controlling the middle East. Rome, Seleucid, Ottoman, England, France, etc etc.

Now if you want to say specifically Afghanistan, then you'd be correct.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Actually there have been a number of empires who did fairly well in controlling the middle East. Rome, Seleucid, Ottoman, England, France, etc etc.

Now if you want to say specifically Afghanistan, then you'd be correct.

Agreed on that, although you could argue that Rome fell partly because of it's expanse into the middle east and stretching the army too thin.

I think my point was more that people have never been able to hold onto the middle east for long.

It's like the village bicycle, everybody's had a ride.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Oh LOL. I've only ever head the bicycle joke from one person. Star for you.

Indeed Rome fell for many problems. But the biggest was a decay of existence, if that makes sense. They simply stopped being civilized and respectful. The key to Rome's power was the placement of civilization and law. Once they ignored that bounding contract the ancients had built before Rome even existed, they fell. It was not till Venice became a republic that the contract was even remembered about.

Abywho, it's not that no one can control the middle east, its that no nation lasts long enough to hold the title. Many Islamic leaders got pretty good with it but even they fell. I don't recall any nation holding the region for more than a few centuries until they themselves collapse. And Brittan just left because they were afraid of being called genocidal after what Hitler did. To give them credit, England was the only colonizer that actually made sure Nigeria India and S Africa had governments when the left. France and the Belgians just flat out left, leaving the sides they paid to fight each other to continue to do just that when they left.

It can be stated to a certain degree of truth that wester Europe is the cause of all our wars today.

reply to post by oozyism


War is wrong period.

When will humanity grow up.

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While the government of Iraq may be evil, these people did not deserve this.

It is wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.

With the final picture, yes be shocked - this is the true face of war and it is manipulated by a handful of rich elite bastards and the common folk keep drinking the corporate kool aid.



I just know I'm going to get in trouble for that last photograph.

I was in nursing, I know what dead is and most of you don't.

I am only presenting the true face of war.

Perhaps it would have been kinder to nuke em all.

I would rather go in a nuclear blast than hold one of my babies or husband in my arms dead.

War is wrong.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by ExPostFacto


And I still believe members of the Bush Administration organized 911.

I suspect 911 was a false flag operation to manipulate the American People into war and to give up more of their freedom under the guise of "Home Land Security".

The enemy isn't over there............the enemy is here.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Göring shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship." -

"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare war."

"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." (Nuremberg Diary, pp. 278–79) ~ Reichmarshal Hermann Goering

econlog.econlib.org...

[edit on 18-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
I just know I'm going to get in trouble for that last photograph.

Funny how everyone is concerned for dead US Soldiers when it fits their agenda; otherwise, I seriously doubt most of the people posting on ATS really give a flying f**k about them.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
I was in nursing, I know what dead is and most of you don't.

Don't bet on it.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
I am only presenting the true face of war.

What, the true nature of war from what you see in pictures? Trying living it, then maybe you'll have a dog in the fight of this discussion.

reply to post by jerico65


Those soldiers went over there.

Those Iraqi babies didn't come over here.

Soldier securing my freedom

That's a laugh.

You're asleep in the Matrix.

We are not a free country.

Only the illusion of being free.

And the noose is tightening on that freedom my friend.

Keep drinking that corporate kool aid.

While you are at it, start researching who has profitted from this war $$$ wise.

This war, like every war is about profit.

But TPTB know how to manipulate that good old boy patriotic spirit.

It's all a BS game played out by a small group of rich elitist.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]