It's really sad how some people here refuse to deal in facts.

Originally posted by rufusthestuntbum

Originally posted by wwwizard
Junxlinx, your eyes are just as you say they are.....untrained. If BP could have plugged the leak 10 weeks ago, they would have. Do you really think that BP wanted to destroy itself by having an oil well spew oil into the gulf all this time? No, no they didn't. Fixing this isn't like fixing a leaky faucet in your house, it's more complicated than you are able to comprehend.

yes, yes!
that oil is worth BIG money
if BP could plug the leak they definitely would

Oh my God logical sense appearing at least. I mean DUH! BP doesn't stop the leak when it could in order to create more pollution and thus a bigger clean up cost and loss of profits. Makes perfect business sense NOT!!!!

I notice the armchair experts have appeared on this subject over the past few months and have been most vocal on how to stop the leak......which is why they are NOT EMPLOYED BY THE OIL INDUSTRY EARNING GAZILLIONS AS EXPERTS!

I think you'll find an industry that is losing billions is employing the best experts in the world to stop the leak. You don't need a degree in common sense for that. I think you'll also notice that the world is full of morons. You know the ones who slow down on a motoroway to observe an accident and then cause all traffic following to slow down and thus cause a traffic jam! The some moronic behaviour will be on show in the Gulf with the catastrophe sightseers who get in the way of those doing a difficult job. Now what would YOU do to get rid of the morons so people can work on the problem?

By the way a moron will never ever say "I was stopped for being a moron" they will come out with a very plausible excuse for having their rights curtailed!

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
With a disaster as horrible is this, it greatly irritates me how hyperbolic many posters have become.

Thinking everything is a lie, everything is a cover up, the world is ending in a methane explosion of fiery doom and pain, an earthquake that's going to crack the earth in two and pop open like an easter egg...

Enough already.

Stop letting wild speculation get the best of you. Deal with the facts. Don't let the opinion of some random "expert" take hold of you and allow you to propogate that opinion as fact. It's really sad the extent to which that happens here on this board.

Like the topic on the main page about BP "obviously" covering up another leak. Everyone's acting like that's some sort of fact, when the reality is it's nothing more than wild speculation. Treat it as such.

Remember, deny ignorance. It works both ways. Just because we're wise to conspiracy theories doesn't mean we turn EVERYTHING into some massive doomsday conspiracy.

It angers me, because even after the well has capped, it almost seems like some of you WANT this catastrophe to continue so you can propogate more of this world ending doomsday nonsense. It's really aggrivating.

The spill is bad enough, we don't need layers of hyperbole added on top of it. I can respect everyone's opinion, but only if it isn't propogated as fact.

Just because you heard XXXX from YYYY doesn't mean XXXX is going to happen or that YYYYY is even as credible a source as you seem to believe.

You want to deal with facts only? Maybe you've missed the FACT that this website is a CONSPIRACY THEORY website, which fosters speculative thinking. If you can't deal with that, I'd suggest going to a different website, that only deals with discussions in fact. This isn't it.

reply to post by mothershipzeta


Beautiful, beautiful reply. If everyone would do even the most basic of research before responding on emotion alone, it would streamline this site, detroy ignorance, and be an asset to the thinking person.

Originally posted by zroth

I do indeed understand the OP perspective.

What are the facts? Here are a few.

Fact = Science is based on some theories.
REALITY = (Science is a method/system for acquiring knowledge . . . Thats all.. Theories are a collection of facts regarding to a specified field that make up our knowledge of said field.)

Fact = Science has specialized fields.
REALITY = (This would be a fact.)

Fact = The Earth is one collective ecosystem.
REALITY = (This would also be a fact.)

Fact = The collective ecosystem is not considered by specialized sciences.
REALITY = (Every field of science considers how that specific field relates/interacts with other processes (fields) and especially it's place and function in the overall whole. Without exploring these questions, one cannot gain a true understanding or "knowledge" of said field. And . . . there is a "specialized" field to study the "collective" Ecosystem Ecology

People have a right to freak out because they are resigned to allow the criminal to cleanup his crime scene. That makes me uneasy too.

- This I agree 100% with . . .

Peace

This is exactly what the OP was talking about . . . People stating opinion or mis-info as fact . . . Or, mixing fact with opinion and passing the whole thing off as fact.

I too get the feeling that there is a large population that wants the doomsday conspiracy to be true. Every generation, since the Sumarian reign, seems to think they are living in the "end times".


EDIT - for structure



[edit on 7/16/10 by solomons path]

reply to post by SaosinEngaged


psst facts are a myth...

reply to post by Dumbass


Hee Hee, I like you

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
...it greatly irritates me how hyperbolic many posters have become.

Thinking everything is a lie, everything is a cover up, the world is ending in a methane explosion of fiery doom and pain, an earthquake that's going to crack the earth in two and pop open like an easter egg...

Speaking of Hyperbole, can you direct me to a post where some one has claimed an earth quake is going to crack the earth in two and pop open like an easter egg? Hypocrisy and hyperbole isn't exactly fixing the problem either.

Originally posted by zroth
Fact = Science is based on some theories.

That is WRONG.

Science is based on observations, not theories. That is what experiments are for.

An object falling towards the Earth increases speed by 9.81 metres per second every second. We call it gravity. The idea of gravity was created from an observation of objects falling to Earth. It was not created by some guy who was bored and decided to create a theory.

The only theories are the ideas which try to explain how or why gravity works. To prove a theory is true, they do experiments which would prove or disprove the theory, and observe the results.

Most people on this forum don't care about observations, or experiments, or facts. They just create theories because they feed on excitment and impending doom. Also because most conspiracy theorist are paranoid schizophrenics, and suffering from conspiracy induced phsychosis.

Because believing the " OFFICAIL" story is what led us to this point. Sounds like what your saying is, is that if it's not on the MSM it is conspiracy. Because people like you are the ones that don't belong on a website like ATS. That is what we are here for, to challenge and demand truth, and if what we hear doesn't sound like truth we research and just so happens we find things that "you" aren't supposed to know. But I guess the dispersent being sprayed is good for you huh? And a corperation running a region of this country is something to be happy about. And NOAA saying something BP is keeping hush hush is conspiracy...Wel for you, the beaches are open and the seafood is great.

The only conspiracy I see with this disaster is the one to keep the media away from it. It seems quite odd. When did the media get so dominated? It seems there would be at least one rouge journalist out there.

I often ask myself "what about Humans craves cataclysm?"

I can only guess that our biology is hardwired for it.

Our modern world does not have much real danger in it, no concrete release for the "fight or flight" responce. So our brains look for danger anyplace it can find it and needs it so badly it will deny logic to maintain the danger high.

reply to post by SaosinEngaged


I agree with you, in a sense. I think it is important for people to brainstorm their ideas and bring them to the table but also important for other people to look at those ideas and then refine them or whatever.

Some of the ridiculous ideas could prove to have some merit, even if not completely. And sometimes ATS will hit on something. Umm... maybe you should go around forums and dispute them with counter-facts or express doubt or something.

Uh your thread is all fine and dandy. But since people have been lied to for a looooooooooongggg time, what makes you think all of a sudden they are going to believe what they are told by the mainstream media all of a sudden? # dude, the reason they didn't plug the leak about a month back with their "junk shot / mud shot / backfill method" was because when they started slowing the leak down, oil started coming from the seabed floors and other areas.

Not to mention the secrecy and lies behind the current oil leak has been at an astronomical level. So you can say enough already until your red in the face. But in the end, as usual we won't know the facts until its too late.

As for the methane bubble. That is a THEORY. As for the fact that the seabed floor became highly unstable when they initially tried to stop the leak did happen and was reported and documented. So I am not sure what all of a sudden made it stable now that they capped it. So again, another discrepancy in MSM reporting, because they are told what to report on.

So you can believe what your told from your newsman, like a good little dog.

I do not understand why people want the end of the world to come and the oil gusher to destroy the gulf. I am a sane person that want the leak to stop, but that does not mean I trust the government and the media. I have a huge distrust of the government and the media. I am just waiting and hope this cap stays on and this is the end of the gusher.

reply to post by SaosinEngaged



A couple of things that you must understand and remember about ATS:

1. The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant

2. All hyperbole expressed here is acceptable, because, after all, "This is a conspiracy site".

I used to bash my head on my desk, trying to reason with some here. After I accepted the above two tenets, the headaches have slowly diminished....

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
With all due respect, that's not an excuse to fly off the handle and deny the facts.

Could you do me a favor and list some "facts"?

Originally posted by nikiano

Originally posted by SaosinEngaged
With a disaster as horrible is this, it greatly irritates me how hyperbolic many posters have become.

Thinking everything is a lie, everything is a cover up, the world is ending in a methane explosion of fiery doom and pain, an earthquake that's going to crack the earth in two and pop open like an easter egg...

Enough already.

Stop letting wild speculation get the best of you. Deal with the facts. Don't let the opinion of some random "expert" take hold of you and allow you to propogate that opinion as fact. It's really sad the extent to which that happens here on this board.

Like the topic on the main page about BP "obviously" covering up another leak. Everyone's acting like that's some sort of fact, when the reality is it's nothing more than wild speculation. Treat it as such.

Remember, deny ignorance. It works both ways. Just because we're wise to conspiracy theories doesn't mean we turn EVERYTHING into some massive doomsday conspiracy.

It angers me, because even after the well has capped, it almost seems like some of you WANT this catastrophe to continue so you can propogate more of this world ending doomsday nonsense. It's really aggrivating.

The spill is bad enough, we don't need layers of hyperbole added on top of it. I can respect everyone's opinion, but only if it isn't propogated as fact.

Just because you heard XXXX from YYYY doesn't mean XXXX is going to happen or that YYYYY is even as credible a source as you seem to believe.

You want to deal with facts only? Maybe you've missed the FACT that this website is a CONSPIRACY THEORY website, which fosters speculative thinking. If you can't deal with that, I'd suggest going to a different website, that only deals with discussions in fact. This isn't it.

And part of what makes this site what it is, is the phrase "Deny Ignorance". It is the Check and Balance that is required to stop Conspiracy theory from flying off into the ludicrious. Facts are a big part of denying ignorance and many people seem to forget that.

[edit on 16-7-2010 by Helmkat]

You're basically just stating the obvious and complaining about it.

No stars and flags from me OP, that's for sure.


[edit on 7/16/2010 by agent violet]

Originally posted by NineEleven11

Originally posted by zroth
Fact = Science is based on some theories.

That is WRONG.

Science is based on observations, not theories. That is what experiments are for.

An object falling towards the Earth increases speed by 9.81 metres per second every second. We call it gravity. The idea of gravity was created from an observation of objects falling to Earth. It was not created by some guy who was bored and decided to create a theory.

The only theories are the ideas which try to explain how or why gravity works. To prove a theory is true, they do experiments which would prove or disprove the theory, and observe the results.

Most people on this forum don't care about observations, or experiments, or facts. They just create theories because they feed on excitment and impending doom. Also because most conspiracy theorist are paranoid schizophrenics, and suffering from conspiracy induced phsychosis.

To stop the discussion on what science actually is as it is not the topic:

science (oxford dictionary)
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment

Theories can be the basis for an experiment, experiments can be obseverved, observations can provide facts



[edit on 16-7-2010 by Dumbass]

Originally posted by NineEleven11

Science is based on observations, not theories. That is what experiments are for.

Science is another religion. Being right most of the time does not mean you understand how it works. Best guess is a theory. Physics is split between theory and observation.

Scientifc Theory

Now keep in mind that I understand how upset people get when science is attacked. However I see as many flaws in science as I do in religion.

However I don't believe that the elitist views of the scientific community are good for anyone.