I don't understand the need for revenge.

I've never got why most people, pretty much all people to some extent actually, believe one bad turn deserves another. I guess it's because I've made some mistakes, even though I'm a warm-hearted and caring person, and I realize that I'm probably capable of doing things (and indeed most people are) that would incite anger, and that if I did do that, I would want to be forgiven.

I don't see how it makes the world any better of a place when a murderer gets the death penalty, or an abusive person is beat up. Sure it makes one feel righteous and like they're vindicated for doing the right thing, but it doesn't undo the crime or cause anything to improve. It's like the only difference between a "bad guy" and a "good guy" is "who started it". In the movies, the heroes/good guys generally show mercy on the villains and don't stoop to their level, but it seems in real life, the good guys are just as bloodthirsty and violent as the bad guys, only for the right reasons rather than for selfish or sadistic reasons.

I guess the reason I feel strongly about this is because I have Asperger's Syndrome, so at times, I can say pretty stupid insensitive things because I never really know how I'm going to react to something emotionally, and as a kid my brother would hit me for it and it made me feel like a bad person and it also made me associate righteousness with brutality.

Does anyone else share my disdain and alienation from the majority's desire for avenging bad deeds? I mean, I think they should go punished and the person should be reformed to society, but I also think bad things as still bad even when they happen to bad people. It's just even worse when it's a good person!

-Donnie

What you are saying though is at the opposite ends of the scale of 'badness':

You have aspergers, therefore you sometimes say the wrong things. Its not like you are committing a crime and it doesnt really do any major damage. Surely people can forgive you (especially if they know your condition). its harsh that your brother hit you for it aswell...

That said, murderers, rapists, paedophiles, etc deserve death. They are not fit to be a part of society. It is against the law to do those things, therefore they should be punished in accordance with their crime.

Its that old saying- "an eye for an eye".

If (god forbid) someone where to hurt you or your family in any way, would you not want to inflict as much pain as possible on them??

I don't understand anyone that wouldn't, its like people who forgive a murderer for killing their child or something.

My attitude is that the world deserves every piece of sh1t it wants. People wanted to murder me in effect for 18 years, with me doing nothing to them. 90% of people are just murderers, and i would never have anything to do with them.

I would never do anything to anyone, and this leaves me open to being tortured and murdered by the scum being around.

I never wanted revenge over anything, as far as i am concerned the world deserves every piece of # it has. I am not like you, and your the scum if you do such things.

For me 90% of people are into things like revenge while i have never been, and it cost me my life, but thats me and i am glad to be passive.


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[edit on 26-5-2010 by dbates]

Originally posted by KingDoey


Its that old saying- "an eye for an eye".

If (god forbid) someone where to hurt you or your family in any way, would you not want to inflict as much pain as possible on them??

I don't understand anyone that wouldn't, its like people who forgive a murderer for killing their child or something.

What about "turn the other cheek"? Easier said than done of course, but I imagine it would give me more peace than being consumed with hate my entire life. Of course for a while I would be beyond angry.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


There is no question about it that i would kill someone if they harmed anyone that i love, without a doubt.

Unfortunately the justice system in UK means that a murderer would probably get let out after 12 years with good behavior...

That is why i would administer justice myself.

Its easy to take revenge.

Its hard to forgive.

Never sell out.

Originally posted by Donnie Darko

Originally posted by KingDoey


Its that old saying- "an eye for an eye".

If (god forbid) someone where to hurt you or your family in any way, would you not want to inflict as much pain as possible on them??

I don't understand anyone that wouldn't, its like people who forgive a murderer for killing their child or something.

What about "turn the other cheek"? Easier said than done of course, but I imagine it would give me more peace than being consumed with hate my entire life. Of course for a while I would be beyond angry.

An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Originally posted by gandhi
Its easy to take revenge.

Its hard to forgive.

Never sell out.

My way is the best way, let the world have as much scum as it can.

People seek revenge to make the perp feel how the victim does. its how stupid people solve their problems because they lack they knowledge of computing a easier or better way to solve what has happened to them. Also some folks just like to hurt people.... we call these folk criminals.

For me revenge is a must!!

Anyone who has ever got revenge properly will of experience the weight lifted and a great sense of peace overcoming their entire being.

I will always get revenge if someone wrongs me. Always!!

If that offends people - I DONT care because revenge is a natural act!

Infact the act of revenge can even help ease the grieving process or even enlighten people!

I am all for revenge. Not simple mindless revenge but really taking the time to develop a fully working act. To me its better that a cleansing ritual!

Well, for me, it's always been much easier to forgive, and I did so automatically for at least half of my rather long life

And after I'd done so, I would be amazed by the fact the person I'd forgiven, wasn't prepared to let it drop. No .... they came back and did it again and continued to do so in many instances

I'm not bright, obviously. Because I continued forgiving automatically

and I made excuses for those people. twisted my head into knots, finding excuses. Some, I decided, were 'split personalities'. I decided they 'couldn't help' what they did. And in some cases, I devoted years to 'helping them' become the 'good person' I believed they and everyone else, was/were

So, battered and bruised from numerous such encounters, I decided late in the game, to study the way in which other people dealt with these issues

Well, it was a sad day when I worked it out. Because whereas all those years of my 'understanding' and 'forgiving' hadn't achieved anything, other than further hurt to myself --- I discovered revenge worked like magic. I'd learned the secret. From watching how other people handled things. And they did NOT forgive or even consider it. Instead, they dealt it back, in spades, sometimes

And to my amazement, all those supposed 'split personalities who couldn't help being ratbags' responded by respecting those who gave as good as they took

So I put it to the test. It went against my grain. But tentatively, I chose NOT to forgive and understand. Wow. It worked like magic for me, too !

I had to LEARN to exact revenge. It didn't come easy

But the fact was --- it worked !

It worked where forgiveness had not. And I realised I'd lost years and years of my life in forgiving and turning the other cheek. Because those I'd forgiven had regarded me as a idiot -- for forgiving them

Funny thing was, it was shortly after I'd begun learning NOT to forgive, that I read the results of a 20 year study in the UK. Those who'd conducted the study stated they were compelled by the overwhelming evidence, to the sad conclusion that 'rehabilitation' did 'not work'. People will say ANYthing to gain their liberty, they realised. And they could pretend to be 'rehabilitated' because THAT was what prison psychiatrists and psychologists and parole boards WANTED to believe.

' There is no such thing as 'rehabilitation', said the experts

And, they said, the ONLY thing which prevents people from committing offences is the FEAR and BELIEF that THEY will get hurt

and I've discovered this to be the case


So, by exacting revenge, we are actually TEACHING people NOT to commit offences. We are teaching them that THEY will get hurt if they do. Cause and effect.


Revenge, therefore, is a teaching device ---- inflicted with lurve

Originally posted by Dock9
And after I'd done so, I would be amazed by the fact the person I'd forgiven, wasn't prepared to let it drop. No .... they came back and did it again and continued to do so in many instances

I'm not bright, obviously. Because I continued forgiving automatically

Too right you sound like me, people did to me an amazing evil scum, and 18 years they are still carrying on. Evil never stops.

You should really be the way i am, just let the world have every piece of rubbish and not worry about it.

[edit on 5/26/2010 by andy1033]

I actually feel the same way you do an Dock9 does.

However I know people ridicule you for forgiving. I do it anyway.I'm not going to try and help them.

Forgiving is just what I am. I'm not going to betray myself for who I am. I do take in consideration a lot of people are not forgiving. The best option is IMO that of Andy1033.

Just ignore them and be yourself.

A little advice. Don't turn your other cheek in a fight. People will use the opportunity.

Being forgiving is not the same as being helpless.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


hi donnie darkissino lols

my perspective on that issue,

the point of truth is positive free life because it is the sense of void source life

so that cause which is void life, is very crucial to understand right reaction to negative move in truth reference life sense

do you understand what is void? it is nothing so noone then can pretend any possession of anything seriously nor any existence from doing something
and the void that void is the source certainty of all it means that void is always the reference to any move definitionsrealities and freedom life existence

so even if someone do alot of positive things he cannot claim from that being a living, on the contrary that make suspicisous about him, and who act more to himself avoiding any public regards on objective ground sound more correct being a living free awareness right

so when someone come to destroy something there or deny another self existence fact, he is clearly wrong since he cannot pretend meaning well and hiding about his true goals on being so appearently a source of an objective realisation

then it is truth reaction there ultimately that is sorting the issue

truth would say, hey that wrong move should be cut off from all its sources to never allow any wrong existence pretense, otherwise we cannot do anything as livings awareness free moves

free moves in truth mean plus above what is already objectively there as a whole whatever your honest perspective of a whole point you want to be free expression from its consideration is

that plus can be objective reality or not it is not important it is totally free as long as you respect the rule which is plus move that allow your free sense as a living being right absolutely

so when they say revenge they mean in truth, that source should not exist, i cannot keep going when i didnt stop that wrong existence to proove its powers on my free right to be

now of course there is also the damage done that people who mean emtionnal revenge are saying there too

so the first aspect is meaning more the free move sense as a plus right, so positive absolute objective reality

but this aspect of emotionnal states is more meaning the subjects truth as free existing of different levels in truth

so there are some rights here too but more difficult to define because it rely on each one to state what it could do to get his sense of freedom fully back living present

the more free sense is of absolute freedom existence truth reference, the more those ones need to see others absolute sense being living and considerate to their griefs in truth, for rights but also for them as an absolute standard of freedom

the more free sense is of relative existence true self reference, the more those ones need to realize something objectively to confirm being free ones livin rights

the major point from my perspective is to admit that existence is only from positive sense justifications always
and of absolute freedom always reference as the source reference and ends reference

so any move making a correction to another move is wrong

because the move any move should only be on positive sense itself so it stop to justify itself when it is forward by correcting another, so it becomes the existent evil that should not be existing ever

what you mean to correct is only the roots of wrong so the whole ground source of that move to detach from totally yourself so you would be in positive sense justification to yourself
but of course if there is grief then self defense like i said is right but more focusing on freedom sense sanity as positive always source you need as existing fac t to yourself lols

I can see what you are saying, however for myself it is very hard for me to let something's go. I have worked for the majority of my life on the subject of revenge, some might even go so far as to call it an obsession to suppress it. Each time I have tried to suppress my natural emotion I seem to be the one who pays the price for it. However, the down side is if I give in to what I call "the spirit of Ares" for myself I seem to damage myself in the process.

The reality of the situation is some people are naturally a tune to be passive and some are naturally a tune to be aggressive it is in their blood or state of mind. It is the choices made though that can trigger the mind set, trigger that, well I don't know any way else to pit it, trigger in their blood. Setting off that trap of Revenge, I have to have satisfaction for this action. The next thing you know you are loosing friends for a simple joke, or starting a fight cause a guy accidentally pushed you, waring against the world for nothing.

No excuse really but sometimes all you can do is try, try to be who you are sometimes you fail, sometimes you fall, in the end you can only be who your blood made yah to be. Sometimes though the real fight is with exactly that.

You must remember that once you've figured out you do not need revenge, you've already won.

Revenge is a simple but effective way of stopping people do bad things. Simple because if bad person knows the person they're going to wrong will take revenge then it may not be worth doing it. Effective because it is a built in instinct for most people; the more likely the victim is to take revenge the better it is a preventing the crime in the first place.

There are better ways though like justice.

I think life's too sort to deal with every petty revenge but a line has to be drawn beyond which is unforgivable. If wronged I ignore feelings of revenge and ask myself how do I stop this from happening again.

[edit on 26-5-2010 by BlankSlate]

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Revenge is just a means of closure. It offers an ending to the original misdeed. There cannot be closure for misdeeds until there is revenge for those misdeeds. Oh, there are those that can just 'walk away' or 'turn the other cheek', but they just mask their true feelings with rainbows and unicorns.

Originally posted by SpacePunk
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Revenge is just a means of closure. It offers an ending to the original misdeed. There cannot be closure for misdeeds until there is revenge for those misdeeds. Oh, there are those that can just 'walk away' or 'turn the other cheek', but they just mask their true feelings with rainbows and unicorns.

Why then, does the death penalty rarely give people peace?

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Where did you hear that?

Revenge is there for a reason.

Some people have a developed conscience. Some people learn on their own fairly well. Other people must be punished for their misdeeds to learn. It's not too difficult a concept to understand for most people.

Revenge has been with us for quite some time because it serves a purpose. People who think it's for stupid people are probably suffering from brain-damage.

Some people are psycho and don't learn no matter what. That's when we need to give the ultimate revenge which is death, imo. Psycho's are beastly people and not worthy of the designation "human being".

No conscience? Inhumane, period.