Hispanic student knocks down american flag

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by ker2010

 

I think this this thread is pretty much dying now. And I don't think what appears to be you obviously making statements to get a rise is helping out.

Im talking logically you are not. Why is it ok for a mexican to show pride but the whites are racists if they show it??? Why the double standard???
WHY?

Problem is most white people decide to show there pride with swastikas and nazi hate which yes is wrong no matter what anyone says

Originally posted by ker2010
reply to post by WolfofWar

 

You still have no proof they shouted anything.

You have no proof they didn't. But we can see in the video them leaning out, saying something, you can see the guys on the sidewalk being upset and exchanging words, you see them taunting the flag deliberately. 'you don't have proof of _____" is a pretty piss poor argument when it's literally visible in the video itself.

Originally posted by Straight_Edge

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by ker2010

 

I think this this thread is pretty much dying now. And I don't think what appears to be you obviously making statements to get a rise is helping out.

Im talking logically you are not. Why is it ok for a mexican to show pride but the whites are racists if they show it??? Why the double standard???
WHY?

Problem is most white people decide to show there pride with swastikas and nazi hate which yes is wrong no matter what anyone says

"Most" white people do not. It is only the lunatic fringe who does that. What a lame gross generalization based on nothing but opinion and possibly conjecture.

Originally posted by YourPopRock

Originally posted by Straight_Edge

Originally posted by ker2010

Originally posted by mryanbrown
reply to post by ker2010

 

I think this this thread is pretty much dying now. And I don't think what appears to be you obviously making statements to get a rise is helping out.

Im talking logically you are not. Why is it ok for a mexican to show pride but the whites are racists if they show it??? Why the double standard???
WHY?

Problem is most white people decide to show there pride with swastikas and nazi hate which yes is wrong no matter what anyone says

"Most" white people do not. It is only the lunatic fringe who does that. What a lame gross generalization based on nothing but opinion and possibly conjecture.

ok maybe most was a little over the top, but the problem with white pride is the only way it is portrayed is white power and all the nazi garbage i can say i am proud to be white but i respect all other races as well

reply to post by DTOXsick


Just lost my entire reply to you! Bottom line, beautiful post, intellectual and well thought out! I agree with every thing you said!

Thanks,

Pax



[edit on 11-5-2010 by paxnatus]

To be quite honest, I could care less what provoked the incident. That isn't an excuse for anything.

If the group had a problem, then the group should have started their own VERBAL and PEACEFUL protest. Or called the Police to mediate.

Something did catch my eye though....
Did anyone see the woman at 2:10?
Why is she hiding her face like that?

Like it or not, their illegal relatives and friends need to go. I have foreign relatives, and I don't get to just have them hop on over and stay for an undetermined amount of time.

That would be illegal.

reply to post by pablos

Originally posted by pablos
Pity the video does not show properly what provoked the incident.

I assume from the events that followed that racial epithets were hurled at these students.

You assume?
Well, guess what that's worth.

If racial insults were uttered, both reporters AND the Mexicans themselves have a vested interest in making sure something like that gets released. The reporters for news, and the Mexicans for "proof" that it's racial.

I won't assume, and go on as if my assumption was truth. I will simply say that, IMO, no racial slurs were uttered by the American flag wavers. Because no one reported that they said any.

Although it's worth mentioning that the person from the group with the Mexican flags kept getting censored.

reply to post by pablos

Originally posted by pablos
First thing, yes it is justification to do this.

No, that flag was private property.
No different than knocking a cell phone or a drink out of someone's hands.

It's against the law.

There is no justification for knocking the property of someone else, out of their hands and onto the ground.

reply to post by pablos

Originally posted by pablos
Through all of these points the most important thing I have learned is the amazing hypocrisy of quite a lot of people that should have better reasoning skills.

Hypocrisy is complaining about reasoning skills, while trying to use assumptions as proof. Like you did in your first post in this topic.

How is that reasonable?

reply to post by FantasmaTaans

Originally posted by FantasmaTaans
I applaud AZ for pushing the immigration issue to the federal government, but they did it in the wrong way. Going the way of Nazi Germany is not the way. I'm serving this country, my father served this country in both Iraq Wars. (We're not from AZ, but I'm currently stationed here) so why do I deserve to be pulled over for my skin color. I could be wearing sun glasses down the street and jaywalk (because so many people in the Northeast USA do) and then get stopped for hours to try to prove my citizenship merely because I have my PA license and that's it.

If you serve(d) this country, then you have a military ID in addition to your state ID and/or Drivers license. You're hardly in a position to worry about mistaken identity.

If you Jaywalk (break the law), you are committing an illegal act. Don't jaywalk and you have nothing to worry about in that case.

It's your own fault, if your stationed in AZ and haven't bothered to get a new AZ ID/DL to replace your PA ID/DL. But again, you got that military ID to fall back on...right?

Nice try, but the AZ law is fair. And only people committing illegal acts with no ID, have anything to worry about.

reply to post by ker2010


Define what a flag is/represents and you get your answer.

Originally posted by LurkerMan


LETS GET A FEW THINGS STRAIGHT SHALL WE?

HISPANIC = FROM SPAIN = WHITE

LATIN(O)= FROM ROME = WHITE

MEXICAN = AZTECA = WHAT YOUR ALL TALKING ABOUT.

His·pan·ic (hĭ-spān'ĭk)
adj.
Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.

Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

n.
A Spanish-speaking person.

A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

dictionary.reference.com...

reply to post by ker2010


Well, not so... Australia. At least that miscreant is a member of the same land mass that you are - we allow Lebanese people here who not only rape out women, bash our life savers, control drug trades and proudly claim their hatered for Australia, but when push comes to shove, burn churches AND our flag.

And if ONE damn person comes to this and says anything about Aborigines, you're in the ignore list pronto. Had enough.

reply to post by badw0lf


They do that because we let them in then give them no help and discriminate against them. Also its a minority group of unemployed young men doing it, I know plenty of unemployed young white men who do similar things.

One last thing on this mexican thing, the flag waving is offensive to the mexicans as they know those who are doing it are doing it to try insult them on the Mexican national holiday, I dont think they hate the flag, they just didn't like what those men waving it were intending by waving it. Also if someone can prove that those guys went about every day of the year waving flags, then sure, I take back my comment.

Originally posted by Equinox99
The MS-13 gang is growing and it is emerging as a killing machine.

MS-13 is from El Salvador and parts of Honduras.

Originally posted by ker2010

Ok lets pretend we are in a court of law.
Exhibit A (the video in question)

The video does not allow you to hear if anything was said to the guy who hit the flag. So you are ASSUMING the guys in the truck said something. Assuming doesnt fly in court. All the video shows is the protestor trying to get physical so thats all you can go on.

So based on the video alone the protestor would be the one guilty in a court of law..

Hey thats good enough for me.

[edit on 10-5-2010 by ker2010]

Good enough for you maybe, but it seems to be a good thing that you are not on jury duty. If you wanna pretend you are in court, at least make sure that what your saying actually would happen. Because this video would never, ever, be accepted as conclusive evidence supporting a conviction in a USA court. Lack of evidence about what lead to the event and too much reasonable doubt for any conviction.

The simple fact remains that you keep pointing out what you SAW happening in the video (to be honest i didn't even watch the video since in my opinion this discussion is futile, the title was enough for me), but the circumstances it happened in are quite leading in what the conviction would be (why do you think you have "degrees" in murder). A crime passionelle (any crime committed out of an emotional response, not just murder like most people think), is generally considered as understandable and any jury would keep that in the back of their heads when it comes to a conviction.

Nothing is PROVEN here, so far only ASSUMED, and since no arrests were made, no crime has been committed. The only assumptions so far have been about the fact that the guy knocked the flag down without reason. Would be nice if someone would assume for once (like i do to be honest), that the guys in the car were the ones shouting whatever insult (be it racist or something else), and the dude simply responded to that.

Also, the very title of the thread DOES give it a racist nudge, it's what actually drew my attention to begin with. You (generalizing here) can twist and turn it all you want, and state that it's not racism but patriotism.. The big difference here is that a PATRIOT defends it's country and the constitution it's built upon. a RACIST on the other hand just USES the constitution to justify his actions.

Also why does everybody simply ASSUME that these are illegal aliens? You really think that if they were illegals they would go out and draw attention to themselves like this?

It might fit here to give a little history about myself. I come from the Netherlands, where racism is abundant and often mistaken for patriotism. I for one used to be a fanatic national socialist, sucked into a lifestyle of racism/fascism, hatred and little understanding of other cultures and ethnics because of the musical preference i have and the extreme rightwinged crowd it attracts. I used to be the Dutch version of Russel Crowe in the movie "rompestomper", until i stepped out of the scene and started thinking for myself again.

What i see here is complete mass-hysteria. Comparable to what i saw when i was still in "the scene", and it's dangerous. Maybe you think that tossing in a racist comment every now and then (intentionally or unintended) won't do any harm. But in times like these, when everybody is looking for a scapegoat, every comment is not a drop, but a bucket of fuel on the fire.

Let's stop turning this into what "they" want it to turn into. A reason to clamp down on ALL OF US when the # hits the fan, no matter what race or nationality you have.

Don't move into a country where you hate their flag and take their blessings.

If you are from another country, do not raise your country's flag - just go home and save a lot of stress, heartache and expense for other people.

This reminds me of a time, back in the mid 90s, in Corona Queens, NY where some students decided to take down the American flag from a high school pol and replace it with a Dominican one. It stood there for a couple of weeks because it was summer time and I believe the school was close. I'm Dominican, born and raised in DR, and had had just gotten to NY, to live, when I saw what those students did. My first thought was how disrespectful that is!! I was with 10 guys when I said that and it just happened to be that some of the students that made that happened were there. They told me how we are discriminated in this country and that we need to get some respect. I responded "by doing that?". I said, we all have pride in our countries so how would you feel if any other person of any other country do the same back in the Dominican Republic? With out thinking and full of pride they say they would kill that SOB. I said EXACTLY!! It took some days but the same students took down the Dominican flag and put the American flag back up. They later told me that I was right and that they, or some of them, went to the local police station and apologized for what they did.

In NY we have many parades for many cultures, being the Puerto Rican the biggest one. When I used to go to those events I used to take the flag of my native country with me but with a bigger flag of the country that was on parade that day. I did it, and most people do the same, just to show support. It's a way of saying "my country supports your country on its day".

I live here and as a citizen of this country I need to abide by its laws and regulations. So if I want to fly the Dominican flag out of my house patio I should also fly the American flag by its side as a show of respect for what this country has done for me and made me into what I am today.

In no circumstance should I, or any one, mistreat the flag of the country where you live or became a citizen of. I find that very disrespectful and shameful for a country that opened its door so you can pursuit your happiness. Just because some apples are bad you don't have to cut down the whole tree.

Originally posted by haika

Originally posted by LurkerMan


LETS GET A FEW THINGS STRAIGHT SHALL WE?

HISPANIC = FROM SPAIN = WHITE

LATIN(O)= FROM ROME = WHITE

MEXICAN = AZTECA = WHAT YOUR ALL TALKING ABOUT.

His·pan·ic (hĭ-spān'ĭk)
adj.
Of or relating to Spain or Spanish-speaking Latin America.

Of or relating to a Spanish-speaking people or culture.

n.
A Spanish-speaking person.

A U.S. citizen or resident of Latin-American or Spanish descent.

dictionary.reference.com...

yes that is the same place i referenced the definitions from. good observation! not sure the point to your post. i wasnt speaking of nationality if thats what your confused with, i was speaking of ethnicity

spanish decent = white

spain = in europe.

yet everybody in the thread is refering to "white poeple" vs "hispanics" when they are the same thing.

i think its obvious they mean Mexicans...or of Aztec decent, when they refer to "us".

and furthermore heres the definition of Latin. as you can see it makes no mention of mexico. other than using the same language.


Lat·in
   /ˈlætn/ Show Spelled[lat-n] Show IPA
–noun
1.
an Italic language spoken in ancient Rome, fixed in the 2nd or 1st century b.c., and established as the official language of the Roman Empire. Abbreviation: L
2.
one of the forms of literary Latin, as Medieval Latin, Late Latin, Biblical Latin, or Liturgical Latin, or of nonclassical Latin, as Vulgar Latin.
3.
a native or inhabitant of Latium; an ancient Roman.
4.
a member of any of the Latin peoples, or those speaking chiefly Romance languages, esp. a native of or émigré from Latin America.
5.
a member of the Latin Church; a Roman Catholic, as distinguished from a member of the Greek Church.
–adjective
6.
denoting or pertaining to those peoples, as the Italians, french, spanish, Portuguese, etc., using languages derived from Latin, esp. the peoples of Central and South America: a meeting of the Latin republics.
7.
of or pertaining to the Latin Church.
8.
of or pertaining to Latium, its inhabitants, or their language.
9.
of or pertaining to the Latin alphabet.

Argentina once belonged to italy and Mexico once belonged to
Spain. which explains the origins of both words, but they dont anymore.

so lets use correct terminology, at least when referring to both party's ethnic origins.

specificly all the comments regarding California and what people it originally belonged to.(and arizona..nm...texas..etc)






[edit on 11-5-2010 by LurkerMan]

Aztec


Az·tec
   /ˈæztɛk/ Show Spelled[az-tek] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a member of a Nahuatl-speaking state in central mexico that was conquered by Cortés in 1521.


Az·tec (āz'těk')
n.

1.

A member of a people of central Mexico whose civilization was at its height at the time of the Spanish conquest in the early 16th century.
2.

The Nahuatl language of the Aztecs.




we have 3 clear origins of 3 clear words

hispanic=spain
latin=italy
Aztec=mexico

the only reason i care is because i happen to be italian, and from my point of view its ridiculous seeing people rant on and on about "us latinos" and "you white people"

couldn't have it any more backwards.

reply to post by LurkerMan


wtf latin america is in Spain now? You people make my brain hurt.

I think both sides maybe were manipulated into conflict.

And that the Rex 84 facilities were really empty.

And there could be a ton of $$$ to make and power to gain.

They could probably hold 30 million people in old/converted facilities.

According to wikipedia :

The Miami Herald reported on July 5, 1987:
Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North and the Federal Emergency Management Agency ... had drafted a contingency plan providing for the suspension of the Constitution, the imposition of martial law, and the appointment of military commanders to head state and local governments and to detain dissidents and Central American refugees in the event of a national crisis.

en.wikipedia.org...
^ Cited by David Thoreen: The President's Emergency War Powers And The Erosion Of Civil Liberties In Pynchon's Vineland. In: Oklahoma City University Law Review. 24, No. 3, 1999, footnote 117

I added italics and bold to important parts, and underlined the two guilty parties under this martial law operation.

I think the "84" is from "Readiness Exercise 1984" as mentioned in the link.
Is it coincidence that it bears the same name as the infamous book describing a martial law/fascist/dumbed down system?



The odds are astronomical. But it's there.
The link also says this.

along with other NATO nations

Please review the link in depth. It's short.
en.wikipedia.org...
Check out the member nations.
en.wikipedia.org...

There has been a largely ignored war in Central America, over the years many news articles have claimed.
Think of anything related to the War on Drugs, or even NAFTA.

Due to these incredible political, economic, and certainly life threatening circumstances, there is increasingly every day a increase of "refugees" from these 'war torn' zones.

Meanwhile in the US, there is a strong anti-government sentiment of it's own home-bred variety. Due to the disenfranchisement of the average American citizens, bla bla; you get the point. Dissents.

Just google /wiki any of that stuff. Things were coming out in the Iran/Contra affair.

The situation on the ground is escalating, and beginning to actually take shape very much along this contingency.

The situation needs to be de-escalated. I do not know how though.

If you really wanna consider some twists, throw in Blue Beam and 2012 and One World Government theories. Oh and maybe even set off a volcanoes through some means to make it look more authentic. If all the major governments were in on it, they wouldn't report it on the front page. They for some reason left us crumbs to follow; IDK why yet.

There are a lot of possibilities that could be going on that remains hidden (partially? lol).

en.wikipedia.org...

Also this could create a North American Union.

I am going to read the rest of the thread now, and if someone else said something like this (or better) I am going to star them lol.

I could be totally wrong, but it just looks a lot like something like this could happen. Violence seems possible because these videos show angry people. And angry people do really stupid things. No matter who they are.

It's not just this either. There are tensions brewing world wide between everyone. People are being manipulated into conflict imo. Not just in America.

The media is making us all angry unfairly. I don't trust it's vibe at all.

I have only one question.

If it is, as the Latin American in the video said, this IS his country...

...why does he throw the flag of his country on the ground?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by ker2010
You respect your heritage and culture but RESPECT

So just because you celebrate a culture and you speak another language you do not respect America? That is your own generalization. In anycase I do not see where a citizen has to respect the American flag or culture under the constitution. So long as they are a citizen or a legal resident they are not obligated, and while it may be distasteful, they do not have to respect any culture or belief. If you have a problem with that, go and rally a petition to change the 1st ammendment of the constitution.

This is just the type of drivel one would expect from someone going by the handle "southern guardian".