magic believers are probably bs-ing us

hello ats i was recently reading through a thread called "ok, who can prove magic exists?"
out of 463 posts there was nothing other than
you just gotta beleive, i cant explain ot to you, seeing is believeing, some links to some myspaces, references to magic mushrooms, and manipulateing energy this or that

but no one has proved magic exists
why is it so hard to prove if its real?

heres an idea give me instructions for a beginners spell that i can actually get results for in a short period of time with the requirments that i dont have to go out and buy candles and magic oils or be loud or hurt anyone
i will share my results

and dont tell me that lying is magic or that electricity is magic

skeptics are most welcome, because if this can be proven than i would like for the info to be shared

reply to post by ashanu90


Magic does not exist and anyone claiming they can prove that it does is definitely BSing you.

There are sides to nature that we do not quite understand and there very well could be elements or aspects of nature and the Universe that are not detectable by current science. The unknown is dubbed paranormal for now but eventually we may be able to explain it if we get far enough scientifically.

reply to post by ashanu90


I just gave instructions on one thread tonight and then already posted it on another thread... hold on!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 20-4-2010 by drew hempel]

reply to post by drew hempel


ok thanks for the link
i will now look into it

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


thats what im thinking but i would like to find out for myself

reply to post by drew hempel


ok i looked at it but i dont know which one to go to, for my situation which one would you advise?

I am reminded of a quote from Arthur C Clarke and it goes like this

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

In other words if people say its magic or it seems to be magic then in reality its just advanced science at work.


[edit on 20-4-2010 by loner007]

reply to post by loner007


your probably right, i bet when electricity was invented people probably thought it was magic

Originally posted by loner007
I am reminded of a quote from Arthur C Clarke and it goes like this

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

In other words if people say its magic or it seems to be magic then in reality its just advanced science at work.


[edit on 20-4-2010 by loner007]

That's not what it says, actually. The technology is indistinguishable from magic. No non-existence of magic is implied in that sentence.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by theyreadmymind]

I believe magic could exist. It all comes down to thought process. I have seen people do remarkable things when they really put their minds to it. I believe you would have to unlock the other 90% of your brain for results but I do believe it is possible. If you want really good magic the best I could tell you would be Penn and Teller. Other than that, I don't believe any exists at this current time as no one has unlocked enough of their brain mass to use it. One day though maybe we will see it.

reply to post by ashanu90


Maybe it is best to define the phenomena before start speaking of it.

Traditionally, human beings have considered magic to be something that does not follow the known laws of nature (that are perceived and understood by human beings). So magic would be a levitating rock, and a magician one who willfully made the rock to levitate.

But above ceases to be magic when someone invents antigravity (which theoretically is possible), and everyone can make things levitate with it. So magic is also something that not everyone is capable to do. Being able to "do magic" requires practice, and it has to function on irrational basis.

Or magic are phenomenas that of natural laws which we don't understand in sufficient way. There can be things that we are not aware of, but all things have rational and natural explanation if we know how to look.

So there must be "real magic", which are occurances of insuffiently know natural laws and then there is "false magic" which is based merely on human insanity:

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

-Albert Einstein

But I guess that in the end there is no such thing as magic, not when we get to know things more accurately. There are only causes and effects in very complex, almost chaotic manner. In it, somethings may appear almost "magical" when we don't know the causes.

-v

reply to post by v01i0


well i meant magic in the sense of make it rain on command or something like that, but then again that could be coincidence, if magic in the harry potter sense(chanting magic words, making stuff change into something else bringing inanimate objects to life etc) then i do believe it can be studied with the scientific method, but if we figured ou how to make it rain on command then it wouldnt be magic anymore with your logic would it? so thus you created a paradox, we discover magic exists only to discover magic doesnt exist, dont you love paradox's? i dont

but you know what i mean right?

reply to post by drew hempel


too much reading, give me a small step by step instruction on a spell i could do

reply to post by ashanu90

Originally posted by ashanu90
reply to post by v01i0

 

but you know what i mean right?

I guess so and I would agree to some degree. Most likely many magicians and such are there only to fool us with trickery. But I think that there are magicians - in a sense - whom employ some forces which use (or abuse) those laws of nature and existence which are unfamiliar and unknown to most of us, maybe party even to 'magicians' themselves.

But yeah, as soon as the phenomena is know both in theory and practice, it ceases to be something magical, but intentionally and systematically applicable way of manipulating the system of reality. But of course almost all 'schools of magic' as well as relgious groups claim that their 'magical' system is in accordance with the laws of nature and hence are universally applicable, but practice seems to contradict this.

I have observed most magic to be psychological effects, but it should be noticed that individual psychology is an interacting system between one's inner reality and objective reality. If one uses enough energy, one can create these inner psychological projections in external reality as all human ideologies and inventions stand as example. Isn't the helicopter a proof of human capacity to levitate willfully?

But as well as our psyche affect the outside world, the outside world affects our psyche. And as long we don't know both, we don't know the whole but we see two sides of coin, not the whole thing. Some people don't believe that the other side even exists. But if you start paying attention to your own motives, you'll begin to see on the other side, it is "seeing" yourself and others from another "dimension"

But really, I can't say that I could teach you cast fireballs through fingertips on a rainy day, so I guess I haven't got the trick I can teach you In my honest opinion and as far as I know, all the magic is most likely psychological, or at least, before the inner (psychological things) manifests itself in reality or reality manifests itself inside us. Maybe the two has to become one.

-v

The whole world is magic, good and bad.

The people, the creatures, the plants, the disasters - good and bad.

It is just names we give these things.

We still have to live here, so enjoy it while you have it.

Those who believe in correct grammar and syntax are probably BSing you.
--

Magic is what YOU make of it. Can be "magick" or "psychic powers", all depending on that you make it out to be. You are in control, you just have to seek yourself to find all the right answers.

reply to post by ashanu90


I don't know about magic - though the word means different things to different people; telekinesis might be considered magic, for example - but with this kind of attitude, you are very unlikely to succeed, real or not. Quick, step-by-step instructions? Effort must be applied, as with almost everything else. I'm not clear on your stance, but if you are going into this thinking "I'm going to prove this is bull" then it unlikely that you will succeed. Of course, if you have been told that it's all a flick of the wrist and pronouncing some chant right, then I can see why you'd think a quick "do this, this, then this, and BAM!" would do you.

reply to post by ashanu90


Well I had a similar attitude to some of not quite believing. I had gone to magic because of the paranormal episodes I had experienced from childhood.

It is not the spell it is the training. Spells are the end point as are the props Wands , Circles robes etc. Without training most cannot achieve must if they have not had a proven history of paranormal events. I always tell people that seem to dabble join a reputable lodge and progress from there. Internet teaching is not acceptable.

On a different note I believe that Magicians and psychics have a different brain in some way to other people. It may be L-Dopamine but there other things also apply.

I do not wish to be offensive but magicians tend to be very individualistic and are often very self-reliant. In effect they may choose not to rise to the bait that your OP represents and may very shrug the title offf with a "Whatever" perhaps followed by a "Well I got mine!" Most magicians are not perfoming seals a dabbler however maybe.

Just a thought

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Tiger5]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by ashanu90

 

Magic does not exist and anyone claiming they can prove that it does is definitely BSing you.

There are sides to nature that we do not quite understand and there very well could be elements or aspects of nature and the Universe that are not detectable by current science. The unknown is dubbed paranormal for now but eventually we may be able to explain it if we get far enough scientifically.


Yesss Tomayto- tomato. Potatoe-potato. Colour -Color. Whatever you call it it has existed since we (humanity) have been around. Things happen in compliance with a directed intent. I have no issues with whatever you call it but I call it magic because it fits the context of certain conversations. No probs

Just some thoughts that come from observations I have meade over the years. No concrete premises or thesis here, but throw this into the mix.

It seems that most concepts of magic tend to be based on ideas of laws of nature that govern the way things work. A practioner who understands those laws, and then through intent interjects an effective spoken incantation or effective power into an object that then becomes an agent of evoking those laws of nature toward an end result, gets the bang.

The intent of the practitioner and the practitioners ability to direct that intent may be the key to making that spell or object do it's thing, and that is the hard and inconsistent part.

So maybe also very hard to prove or test scientifically.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by Gibbon]