!!! From Healthcare to Eugenics !!!

Good day my fellow paranoid friends, I have a question you may be able to help me with..

Eugenics, according to Wiki

Eugenics is the study and practice of selective breeding applied to humans, with the aim of improving the species. In a historical and broader sense, eugenics can also be a study of "improving human genetic qualities.

To put this in simpler terms, if two really smart people decide to have children. Changes are pretty big their children will shows signs of an above average intelligence. This also works for really dumb people. If they reproduce, changes are pretty big the apple will not fall far from the tree. To let government take an active role in this process of selection, by restricting those who bring down the gene-pool or endorsing those that will have a positive effect on it, is called Eugenics.

It used to be a pretty popular notion. A couple of thousands years ago some guy named Plato already saw the benefits of this "selective breeding" in order to enhance the overall quality of society. After reading the theory on the origin of the species, Charles Darwin's cousin Francis Galton reasoned that because of the nature of society to help the weak and poor, we were scr*wing up the evolutionary process. "reversion towards mediocrity" he called it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/081af57a10293cdf.png[/atsimg]

That of it's self is pretty smart to recognize ( ) and it may even be considered smart to try and take appropriate action to prevent the weak elements from scr*wing up the local gene pool ( ). After all, nobody would benefit from a society where the majority is dumb and poor. But because of some guy in mid-20th century Germany, who was a really big fan of this concept and just took it way to far, we all decided that ethics and basic human rights do not allow for a concept as eugenics to be executed.

Because basic human rights, ethics and government really don't mix, the idea was far from abandoned. The average Joe would not understand but we are at war with the rest of the world and the goal is to create a society with the least amount of bad elements. Raise the average intelligence as well as the average immune system. Again, for the progress of our species it is important that the function of the survival of the fittest is maintained but because of the social tendency to help those weaker, Government sees itself forced to take matters into it's own hands.

Oh before i forget, congratulations on the Healthcare bill!! "To provide affordable, quality health care for all Americans and reduce the growth in health care spending" is a really great achievement and you have every reason (and right) to be proud of this.

But beside it being a sign of an advanced society, health coverage to all Americans will also function as a tool for implementing something so sinister that most of you will not recognize it and most likely welcome it with open arms.

In January 2009, President Barack Obama unveiled plans to implement electronic medical records nationwide within five years, arguing that such a plan was crucial in the fight against rising health care costs.

EMR, that's right folks, this will be the turning point in history where we as a society decide to abandon ethics. Of course "they" have already made this decision for us but it's paramount, in their little plan, that we stay oblivious.

Let me break it down for you...Some time from now (few months, maybe a year) you will again be faced with a dilemma over efficiency vs. privacy. Your government is going to tell you that a nationwide EMR database is going to be created and every American will be included. Some of the more alert people will demand that they be left a choice whether or not they want their private information in this database.

Your Government will come up with some weak excuse about how they forgot to think about the whole privacy issue and went ahead and created accounts for everybody. But you will be left with the option of getting your account removed from the database if you fill in a written objection to your government in triplet and accompanied by a copy of your birth certificate. After about 90% of people, who initially objected, simply agree with the whole thing because of all the work it will take to get your account removed, the 10% remaining will be told that the size of their group does not validate a "drastic" change to the system....

How do i know?? They pulled of the same sh*t over here in my country last year (I even had to pay 25,- to have myself removed from this database). And i could not get my head around it back then but now i think i do...

By having central access to information that is important for deciding which individuals have a positive and which have a negative effect on the gene pool, you can take precautionary action by not allowing the bad elements to reproduce. They, of course, will not be informed about this. Just a simple pop-up on the pharmacists screen that patient 22977765-00-AA is not suitable for reproduction and a friendly request to put something extra in the medication that will neutralize their reproductive means.

Now for my question....

Would you stand up and object when your government tries to implement this?

Have a good weekend!!

Peace

edit for title and grammar....(ohhh..the grammar )

[edit on 26-3-2010 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Nobody??

I certainly didn't expect not a single person would react but I will be back here when you are all outraged because of the stunning disregard, of your government, for your opinion and privacy when they shove this down your throat....

Stay save....

Peace

reply to post by operation mindcrime

create a society with the least amount of bad elements

But who decides what the bad elements are?


Anyway, today we live in a society that is much more mobile. People don't grow up, go to school, marry, work and die in the same place anymore. Our populations ( especially in Europe) often move from city to city, country to country. I know myself, I have lived in three countries in the last 5 years.

What other way do you propose that medical establishments keep track of people's treatments, healthcare ect; other then a database which lists it? I think this is one case where a "database" makes sense. I understand the concerns that people have regarding it's security and that should definiltey be adressed. But in the end, I don't see an alternative that would work in our increasing uprooted socities.

As far as this leading to eugenics, sure anything is possible. But if you look at history you will see that eugenics have often come to be accepted by people, not as a secret program, but right out in the open under the guise of patriotism.

My mother was one of the "Kinder der Landstrasse". This was a program adopted by the swiss government early in the the 20th century who's aim was to "cleanse" the Yenische ( Swiss gypsies) people. The program, with full support of the swiss people, lasted until the 70s. I have documents and reports by medical professionals which actually state that my mother's line was polluted with defective genes which caused "Thievery, sexual devience, and the inability to settle" it then goes on to state that the best course of action would the sterilization of all females in the line. What these people (My people!!)went through was horrific in the name of cleansing unwanted "bad" elements out of their society.

It wasn't a secret until 1973 when the first investigative journalists began to ask questions, then the cover ups began. Even today, the recods of the victims are sealed until 2050 to anyone except the victims who can only view them via strict security protocol.

Goverments don't need to trick us into accepting atrocities, we quite happily do in the name of patriotism or safety or for the good of the children....ect;

reply to post by Merigold


Thanks for your elegant reply Merigold and it is exactly because of this kind of argumentation that the Government isn't going to have such a hard time pushing this through..

What other way do you propose that medical establishments keep track of people's treatments, health care ect; other then a database which lists it? I think this is one case where a "database" makes sense.

How about the old fashion way? From what i always understood, the relation between a doctor and his patient is confidential. If your doctor won't see to it that your medical record will be transfered to your new doctor, then maybe one could take this into his/her own hands and take the medical record with them to their new doctor...

What we will have now is a Government controlled database which everybody (and i mean everybody with influence can have access to).
I know that we can trust our Government when they say that nobody but the people who need to see it will be able to see your medical files but that's what scares me.....

Think about it.

Peace



[edit on 26-3-2010 by operation mindcrime]

Did I over-complicate things with my OP? Should I consider a Sesame Street version of what I am trying to say or is it just the lack of interest??

Maybe it's the quality of the thread? Should I have used more colorful pictures? This is really damaging for my ego...

Back to lurking...

Peace

and what country was this again?

reply to post by operation mindcrime

How about the old fashion way?

The old fashioned way won't work for our new way of life, Mindcrime. The family doctor of old has been replaced by poly clinics. The job for life has been replaced by "employment mobility". How many people do you know who have been to the same doctor all their life? I suspect not many.

I agree that there are all sorts of problems, hard to trust a government with sensitive data, but really, with the way our lives take us all over the place now adays, what other way is there?

I've lived in three countries in five years, I have friends and family all over the world, they move countries, cities, jobs..that is the way it is now, We have to accept that these changes mean that the "old fashioned" way is just not gonna work anymore.

reply to post by damwel


Good one.

I guess i was talking about the United States of America but it could go for a lot of other countries within the western world as well..

After every country has implemented it's nationwide EMR database, watch for the next "epidemic"... I'll bet you this time they will have personalized syringes so they know you took your mandatory shot. Or something like that...

I'm just thinking out loud here....

Peace

Eugenics is a linear system that has no end.

Think: IF we started a eugenics movement and say extinguished the lowest 1/3rd IQ of the population, a few score years down the road we would be right back where we started. Arguably on higher plain of intelligence, yet we would still be faced with the same problem of lower verse higher intelligence. The process would repeat. Additionally, we would be subjecting people of higher potential to the menial workload of tasks generally reserved for those who are less fortunate. Do we really need Einstein flippin' burgers down at Micky D's, I do not think so. Yet again, do we really need Micky D's...that would be a resounding no.

reply to post by LeeTheDestroyer

Thanks for your reply LeeTheDestroyer.

We have a slight misunderstanding, they are not going to get rid of all the dumb and poor people. They merely want control over the process and keep the numbers low enough so any possible uprise can be easily dealt with...

The goal is to get an overall smarter population then your neighbor (on average....)

Peace

[edit on 27-3-2010 by operation mindcrime]

I am all for eugenics. If I were dictator, it would be implemented immediately. However, the govt will never do it. Why would they want to raise the intelligence of the population? They would lose control, they want everyone dumbed down. The problem is their program will be dictated by the color of your skin, or the percentage of Arab genes or whatever.

You SHOULD have to pass some kind of test to be allowed to reproduce. The movie Idiocracy is not far off the mark. That is exactly the way we are headed.

You should have to prove you are in some way physically or mentally superior, in order for your genes to be passed on. Period. But instead, all the numbskulls are breeding like rats. Women seem to think it is some kind of FEAT to pop out brats. Dogs do it. So do rats. Big deal.

All those who are against it, and against this medical record travesty, are probably diseased or of low IQ, and therefore YOU must be allowed to pop out brats! How dare they?

If you are a fat pig, NO KIDS FOR YOU! If you are stupid, NO KIDS FOR YOU! If you are deformed or diseased, NO KIDS FOR YOU! In the old days, all those people would have been eaten by saber tooth tigers.

If you are a diseased weakling, and so weak minded you believe everything you are told, and can't think for yourself, NO KIDS FOR YOU!

Unfortunately, the reality is, if you are a diseased weakling, we can make money off of selling you useless drugs your whole life! ANd if you do what you are told, and are too dumb to think for yourself, WE LOVE YOU, we can take all your money your whole life and you won't even catch on! So we want you to breed like rats!

Technology is the Tool of Enslavement . Is there any Doubt about that anymore today ? Ten years from now people might look back to the year 2010 as the beginning of the End in terms of Personal Freedoms being Lost Forever .

reply to post by operation mindcrime

They, of course, will not be informed about this. Just a simple pop-up on the pharmacists screen that patient 22977765-00-AA is not suitable for reproduction and a friendly request to put something extra in the medication that will neutralize their reproductive means.

I have a friend who was told by her doctor that there was something wrong with her baby that would have made it die quickly after birth. She had it aborted and has regretted the decision immensely.

When she became pregnant again, the doctor, again, told her that baby had the same defect but, this time she chose to go ahead and have the baby anyway.

The baby turned out to be perfectly healthy and has had no health problems.

When she again became pregnant a few years later, another doctor told her the same line of bull, that her baby had some type of defect and would not survive. She again went against her doctor's advice and SUPRISE, she had another perfectly healthy baby.

My friend was very young, unemployed and her husband had a low-paying job (he was also kinda funny looking). I believe that the doctors may have been trying to prevent them from having children for eugenics reasons.

[edit on 3/27/10 by FortAnthem]

Originally posted by CaptChaos

You make an interesting point CaptChaos but should not forget that we are talking about selective breeding, anything is possible.

the govt will never do it. Why would they want to raise the intelligence of the population? They would lose control, they want everyone dumbed down.

It's not just intelligence which can be manipulated. Every other aspect that might be of benefit for TPTB can be influenced. Want to reduce healthcare cost? Make healthier people!!

You SHOULD have to pass some kind of test to be allowed to reproduce.

Indeed!! But this is not the kind of test where you get to have any input. You medical record will tell if you are fit to reproduce.

Unfortunately, the reality is, if you are a diseased weakling, we can make money off of selling you useless drugs your whole life! ANd if you do what you are told, and are too dumb to think for yourself, WE LOVE YOU, we can take all your money your whole life and you won't even catch on! So we want you to breed like rats!

I think Government is better served with a population of obedient smart little engineers with a high immune system and a general sunny disposition, that are easily oppressed.

Peace

reply to post by FortAnthem


Disention is the Duty of every Citizen in a Nation where the Needs of the Few take president over the Needs of the Many . In this case , the Few are the ones who are using Technology to give them an Advantage over those who they wish to have Total Social Control over . If this Idea of Identity Chip Implantation does not open the door towards eventual Enslavement of the Individual , then what is it ? Should this Technology just be considered " Progress " as usual , and any Fears people might have about it's possible misuse are somewhat unfounded ? What say you ?

reply to post by FortAnthem


That's a terrible story!!!

If doctors indeed deliberately advised her to break off the pregnancy with the idea of preventing another bad addition to the gene pool, then that would be shocking.

I'll bet you anything that the person making such a call does so out of the conviction that, because they are smart enough, they are the only ones to see what will happen to the gene pool in the long run. And because of this "higher intellect" they will have to carry the burden of making this decision.

They actually believe that what they are doing is wrong but necessary. They are the victims for having to live with the realization that they have to make the choice between basic human rights and the survival of a nation...

D*mn good reasoning, if you ask me...

Peace

The main problem with eugenics is that in addition to keeping the stupid people down, the elites breed with each other until they run out of third cousins, and that's when you start getting kids whose only possible career path is as extras for "The Hills Have Eyes".

reply to post by operation mindcrime


There are plenty of eugenics laws on the books already.

They arn't enforced anymore. The last forced sterilization was in 1979.

It wouldn't take much to enforce them again though.

reply to post by warpcrafter


No they won't!!

Remember, most of the good folks on ATS would be considered elite. The group they would want to see disappear is the group that is straining the system. You know, criminals, dumb people, "special" people. You know, the ones slowing down progress...

Peace

reply to post by MikeboydUS


And you think, with modern day society and it's idea of human rights and discrimination, are going to accept the implementation of such a noble plan?

Everey human right activist would be up in arms!! Nahhh, it's better to keep them oblivious...

Peace