If The Bible Stories Were True, Then What?

Originally posted by Deaf Alien
If Koran was proven to be true tomorrow (or any other scripture), what would you say?

Well, I think the Koran, Torah and Bible all share common beliefs, seeing that these "Religious Branches" all Stem from the Trunk of Abraham, down to the Roots of Adam.

In fact, the matter of the Bible being true would have a direct reflection which will encompass the Islamic and Jewish Faiths and the Tenets of those Beliefs. It is their Common Origin. All three believe in the same GOD, despite having seperate Names to express HIM.

Ciao

Shane

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I feel like the point of the OP is to show that even if certain Bible stories are true, that doesn't automatically validate a specific belief system that references those stories.

Additionally, this thread reminds me of a quote I once read - "Mythology is other people's religion". I find it odd that some Christians insist that the Bible is 1) the infallible word of God and 2) a literal historical record. This is because 1) the Bible contains contradictions and 2) the Bible describes events that are impossible under a rational view of reality.

I don't seek to condemn the Bible, I just wonder why some people insist on trying to categorize mythology as literal history. Just because a story is metaphorical doesn't mean the story is worthless. In fact, there are certain people (Joseph Campbell comes to mind) who see a lot of significance in metaphorical stories.

reply to post by Rock Lobster


What I can't figure out is why non believers don't spend as much time questioning and debunking other books of history -

No one questions any other history book - and the Bible is a history book, for all intent and purpose. God's instructions and rules for us, yes - but also a history of the Earth's beginning, and ours, as well.

Could it be because the Bible has rules and laws in it that mankind wants to continue to thumb his nose at?

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I would argue that the Bible is not a straightforward history book. It may incorporate some historical accounts, but some parts fit under the category of religious or mythological literature. For example, creation myths and flood myths are present in various cultures. Why do some Christians insist on establishing the biblical accounts as literal events?

For me personally, this analysis has nothing to do with affirming or negating the moral codes in the Bible. As I already mentioned, I don't think the overall message of the Bible is contingent on everything in it being a literal historical account. Its simply a matter of observation. In fact, you could pose the same question to Christians who don't believe that the Koran is a written miracle as the Muslims claim. (e.g. "You don't want to believe its a miracle because you don't want to follow Allah's laws.")

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Rock Lobster]

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Rock Lobster]

Originally posted by jrmcleod

Originally posted by pplrnuts
Sheol simply means pit or grave. Heaven as what we call it now, originally meant sky in its Hebrew translation. Sheol was a place in which all, good or bad, was destined to go upon death. Over time these simple meanings were WILDLY fabricated into extreme nonsense by the religious authorities. The same authorities that also brainwashed the masses to live by blind faith and not question or research their beliefs.

The Bible is not real historical accounts, but is a collection of older legends and myths. Since myths are fiction, and the bible copied them, all of it is fiction.

The unique and miraculous characteristics and performances by jesus is old news and a complete work of plagiarism. The alleged jesus did some amazing things, but yet no evidence. No writings surfaced until long after his alleged existence.

The bible is a collection of old stories wrapped up into one source for the commoners at the time to easily accept it. And if you didnt accept it at the time, then it was game over for you. But unfortunately, the blind faith concept prevails over rational thought, evidence, common sense and facts.

The humorous part of it all is that the ones whom are actually fooled are the ones most convinced that it is everyone else that is fooled. Those whom have evolved beyond religion have done their research and asked questions, while the believers live by their blind faith garbage assuming that it is they who are correct. If there is a god, I find it hard to beleive that we were given advanced brains simply to be rewarded in the afterlife by effortlessly living by blind faith. Laziness should not be rewarded. That of course is what the religious believe though.

Thats precisely the problem with this world and the people in it. They have to have evidence for everything...some things do not need to be proven as they are felt to be right. I would like to know of anyone who is seconds from death and they know they are about to die who do not repent their sins because of fear, that they will beg for forgiveness because of fear of the unknown. No matter how prepared you think you are, there is stilll that single moment of uncertainty before you depart. The one thing that is there to help you is wrong because the year 2010 needs proof.

Yeah darn those people that want to weigh the evidence and come to conclusions reasonably.

Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Deaf Alien

 

I guess it's as the old adage goes, 'For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For the skeptic, no amount of proof is enough.'

If we confirmed every single Biblical character, location, and event, there would still be those who doubt, dismiss, and scoff. If there was nothing to confirm a single thing, there would still be those who believe.

We already have several archaeological sites that support some of the most outlandish Biblical stories like Sodom and Gomorrah, the Tower of Babel, and the Pool of Bethesda. Each are given logical, non biblical explanations by the scientific community and automatically detached from anything supernatural.

It's just the way it is.

Can ANY of the events be confirmed? You're acting as if skeptics are getting piles of evidence for god and are simply pushing it off the desk, when in reality, the only proof we have of god are stories from a long time ago, and stories from people in modern times who have ''felt something'' in their heart, or some other nonsense.

reply to post by Shane


Question is, did Jesus change hell? Did Jesus's ministry in hell alter the reality of hell? In defeating death, did Jesus raise the souls of the repentant dead directly from spiritual dust? Or did those who died before Jesus experience a different reality to the spiritual annihilation that you describe?

It's a shame that more atheists have not come on to say what they think they will say if their friend showed them irrefutable proof that any of the Bible stories are True and factual!

Thanks for this thread Deaf Alien.

To me this is like asking; "If the dentist proved that the tooth fairy is real, then what?" or "If your toenails start talking to you, then what?"

I'll answer your question when pigs fly.

[edit on 9-3-2010 by Lilitu]

Originally posted by Rock Lobster
For example, creation myths and flood myths are present in various cultures. Why do some Christians insist on establishing the biblical accounts as literal events?

And here you go and provide a point of view that is supportive of my views in respect to the Topic.

Your example is quite true, and placing any serious thoughts on these "Other" accounts, we clearly see a storyline which echos the Biblical accounts.

Certainly, there are differences, but the basic tales and lores, some consider as myths or legends, are indications what the Bible has expressed has occured, although an alternative perspective is applied in the account.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by Shane

 

Question is, did Jesus change hell? Did Jesus's ministry in hell alter the reality of hell? In defeating death, did Jesus raise the souls of the repentant dead directly from spiritual dust? Or did those who died before Jesus experience a different reality to the spiritual annihilation that you describe?

I think you may have mistaken some of my reply, and I trust this will clear some of this up.

1st, There is no, has never been, and will not, be a "HELL" UNTIL the Judgement Day spoken of after the Millenium Kingdom. And when this day occurs, the "picture painted" in most peoples mind, will only last for a millisecond, and be over. It is eternal in respects to never again, will you be remembered. Gone forever and ever.

2nd, Jesus, in conquering death, truly alloted those that had gone before, the same opportunity we today are afforded, who die, with the belief that Christ Cleansed our Sins, and made the ultimate sacrafice, so we can be in Heaven apposed to a placed, some refer to as Hades, or Sheol.

Remember, as Sheep, Christains are not entirely schooled Biblically, and liberities are taken time and time again by the Theologies, Doctrines and Dogmas of this or that sect of "Christain" organizations. We are told of Hell, and have visuals embedded in our mindset of a Pit of misery and angony where we are wrythng in pain until the end of time. Demons tormenting us and so on. The Problem is, as Christain Sheep, we have no way to ensure what we have been told is accurate. And sadly, we can not be bothered to study for ourselves.

I hope this clears the matter up a little for you.

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Rock Lobster

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I feel like the point of the OP is to show that even if certain Bible stories are true, that doesn't automatically validate a specific belief system that references those stories.

Thank you for the post. That is the point of my OP.

If, for example, the tower of Babel story is true, then it could be a work of aliens calling themselves gods (there's actually more proof for this) manipulating mankind via DNA and mind control. Or it could be ANY other things.

Bible scholars and archaeologists seek to validate their beliefs by proving that certain events in the Bible have actually happened in history. My response is, so what? I believe (with proof) that the aliens have been involved throughout history. Some of my Christians have ACTUALLY told me that my belief is more fantastical than theirs! Go figure.

reply to post by lostinspace

If they could resurrect the dead, heal the sick, provide food and many more than definitely I would convert to their new alien faith.

Why would you convert to the new alien faith?

Medical technology are improving fast every day. Sick people are getting healed or treated every day. There are new researches in DNA, etc.

Does that mean you would convert to the doctor and scientists faith?

reply to post by AshleyD

I guess it's as the old adage goes, 'For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For the skeptic, no amount of proof is enough.'

It's the good ol Occam's Razor. What is more likely? That there is a vengeful angry god who kills people and damn people to eternal Hell, or that Elohim were really a group of alien beings manipulating humankind? Of course there are other scenarios, but I made a point here.

Originally posted by Shane

Your example is quite true, and placing any serious thoughts on these "Other" accounts, we clearly see a storyline which echos the Biblical accounts.

I should elaborate on the point I was making in my previous post. Of course, if you find multiple stories referencing some event (e.g. a flood) then you have reason to believe that an actual flood may have occurred. The thing about the biblical account is that it doesn't just say "there was a flood" it says (paraphrasing obv.) "There was a flood and God told this one guy about it. This guy built a boat and EVERY KIND OF ANIMAL got on the boat. Everyone except for this guy and his family died."

I should also add that the Bible is in fact echoing earlier flood stories in which other "supernatural" things happened such as the protagonist gaining immortal life etc. When you consider this evidence, it suggests that these stories are mythological in nature.

Looking at creation myths, there are various stories in which a god rips himself into pieces to create people, there's some Egyptian myth where the creator basically masturbates things into existence (sorry not trying to be crude, but its true) and you have the Genesis creation myth where God forms people out of dirt etc. The point here is that scientists have a pretty good understanding of how life evolved and to say the least, it doesn't involve humans spontaneously sprouting from dirt.

My point here is that these and other biblical accounts seem to fall under the category of mythological literature in which things are described metaphorically or poetically.

Originally posted by Shane

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by Shane

 

Question is, did Jesus change hell? Did Jesus's ministry in hell alter the reality of hell? In defeating death, did Jesus raise the souls of the repentant dead directly from spiritual dust? Or did those who died before Jesus experience a different reality to the spiritual annihilation that you describe?

I think you may have mistaken some of my reply, and I trust this will clear some of this up.

Are you sure?

You seem very clear and certain about what hell is or is not. I have questions about it because I am not sure. All I really know is that whatever the Truth about the actual environment of hell, God is not there.

reply to post by Lilitu


LOL

To me this is like asking; "If the dentist proved that the tooth fairy is real, then what?" or "If your toenails start talking to you, then what?"

To the first question, what would you say? That we are living in a matrix? That we all are having a hallucination? And so on.

To the second question, I think you know the answer, I hope?


Let me give you an example:

Your very religious Catholic friend pulled you to this healing meeting. This little boy with no arms came to this priest. All of sudden this priest started bleeding from his palms and you saw from your very own eyes the limbs growing into full formed arms. It was a genuine event. The boy's doctors were very puzzled.

Your friend tells you, "See!!! I have been trying to tell you for a long time! Now do you believe?"

What would you say?

[edit on 11-3-2010 by Deaf Alien]

If the bible were shown to be 100% factual, and the story of creation was backed up by indisputable scientific research, then I would be a Christian. At least until I got to Heaven so I could ask God why he would create this existence knowing full well that many would succumb to the ills of this harsh world and suffer an eternity of pain and suffering for it. After he finished explaining to me why we are only given one life to come to know him or burn forever, and why some have much easier paths than others, I guess I'd be watching George Carlin doing stand up in hell.



[edit on 11-3-2010 by Torgo]

reply to post by Torgo

If the bible were shown to be 100% factual, and the story of creation was backed up by indisputable scientific research, then I would be a Christian.

The story of creation is an interpretation.

BUT....

Let's say that it was proven... why would you be a Christian?

What would the skeptic in you say?

If the bible was proven real I would not worship the christian God until he or a rep came down to earth and explained to me all the killings, etc, once those are adequately explained and check out, I will become a christian.
I would also need confirmation that this is an all powerful all knowing being and not some highly advanced alien who is toying with us.

[edit on 11-3-2010 by hippomchippo]