If Barack Obama fails today, we’ll all be swept away

This is in reference to the Televised summit on Healthcare Refrom that Obama is going to have with Republicans and rebellious Democrats TODAY.

From an article in The Times Online, a British daily

f nothing is done to change the US healthcare system, it can be stated with mathematical certainty that the US Government and many leading US companies will be driven into bankruptcy, a fate that befell General Motors and Chrysler largely because of their inability to meet retired workers’ contractually guaranteed medical costs.

The absence of effective US leadership will dash any hopes of progress in foreign policy, whether on broad issues such as energy, trade and climate change or on security threats such as Afghanistan, Iran and the Middle East.

A genuine loss of confidence in America’s fiscal outlook would create a financial crisis so horrific that actions by the British or European governments would be swept away like beach huts in a tsunami.

www.timesonline.co.uk...


Could this summit really be that important?

It is clearly important, even vital to Obama's ambition to win a second term. But could no agreement on Healthcare reform really send the American and as a result World economy into a fatal tailspin?

The argument within the article is that if an agreement on Healthcare reform cannot be reached, that nothing else will be agreed in Washington over the next 3 years. So will this coupled with the rising healthcare costs spell the end for the Western economic model?

I truly hope not, sort it out Washington!










[edit on 25-2-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

I think with obama's unwavering support of unions it doesn't matter what they do today.No deal means we have another shot to save this country.However if any part of obama's agenda is enacted we will be on the road to ruin in the passing lane.

The sad truth is, there is no way to sustain the union and government pension plans and remain competitive on the world stage.

Also this is not the biggest problem facing our country IMHO.The fact that we have over 50% of the workforce employed by "gov. sector",at an average salary of 20% more than the private sector.THOSE numbers are unsustainable.

reply to post by genius/idoit


The cost of your healthcare system is 14% of the entire Federal budget though which is a pretty big commitment. In Britain it is around 18%, but this provides Universal Healthcare. If you couple this with American companies having to provide healthcare at a huge expense, wouldn't reform make sense to bring the costs down?

I agree that Government jobs pay alot in the U.S and here in the U.K, but they are about the only employer recruiting at the moment. If you were to cut that to, would not the unemployment rate soar even higher?

Back to the summit, can one day in Washington really lead to change? This Healthcare reform bill has been over a year in the making, with comprimise after comprimise being inserted, and there still does not appear to be agreement.

The reform may not be perfect, but does it not provide a route to a better cheaper system of Healthcare for the American people?



[edit on 25-2-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

Quite honestly I see this analogy,you go to a restaurant and order a steak,it comes smothered in onions and you don't like onions so you send it back.Instead of making you a new steak a bad restaurant just scrapes off the onions and sends it back to you.In obama's restaurant the chef comes out and tells you no no you do like onions you just don't know it yet,and by the way I'm going to have to charge you extra for manager involvement.

This debate over healthcare is a red herring. The problem with this piece of legislation is that it's 5,000 PAGES LONG!!!! How is it possible that you need 5,000 pages to describe government healthcare? Congress admits it's too big to read every page so passing this bill is making a mockery of the whole process. Who knows what nefarious laws are buried in this thing. Bush did the same thing with the financial bailout package that started with a 5 page document and ended up with a 2,000 page document that congress didn't have time to read. Why even bother to have Senators and Congressmen if they can't or won't read the legislation their voting on?

There's a saying. It goes like this.
If you can't dazzle 'em with wit, baffle 'em with bulls--t

reply to post by genius/idoit


A strange analogy, which has made me think of Steak far too much when i should be studying!

So you are arguing that the U.S Government, who collect taxes to then partly pay for community services, should have no say in how the healthcare system is run? Or shouldn't force you to pay extra for a service that will now provide for millions more? Mabye i did not understand your analogy?

The Bill is not perfect is my argument. But it is better than letting this current trend of rising costs for the insured and no chance for the under-insured or no insured of recieving good care continue.

I would argue that it should go further, but i am aware that the majority of Americans are against this, and it is after all your country.

In the TIMES article the author states:

nothing is done to change the US healthcare system, it can be stated with mathematical certainty that the US Government and many leading US companies will be driven into bankruptcy, a fate that befell General Motors and Chrysler largely because of their inability to meet retired workers’ contractually guaranteed medical costs.

I am not aware if that is true, but if it is, is that not cause enough to see reform?

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

reply to post by Beancounter72


Agreed. 5000 pages is absolutley crazy. It should have been a clear set of guidelines, i.e Insurance companies must insure people with pre-conditions, a Public Option should have been included, the insured keep their choice of doctor.

I know i am crazy with my 'Socialist/Progressive/Communist/Facist/Neo-Monarchist(Thankyou Mitt Romney)' ideas from across the pond.

Mabye the 5000 pages were an attempt to fool/persuade the Republicans/Blue Dog Democrats?

Obama has taken a big risk on televising this debate. But he knows his power of oratory is his best way at defeating his opponents on this issue. This was shown at the Republican forum recently where he seemed to defeat the Republicans pretty comprehensively on the stimulus bill etc.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

Starting at 10 A.M. ET. you can watch the health care summit live feed on youtube.

Here's the link:

Health Care Summit

[edit on 25-2-2010 by LegalizeFreedom]

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by Beancounter72

 

Obama has taken a big risk on televising this debate. But he knows his power of oratory is his best way at defeating his opponents on this issue. This was shown at the Republican forum recently where he seemed to defeat the Republicans pretty comprehensively on the stimulus bill etc.

[edit on 25-2-2010 by Peruvianmonk]

One just has to be dissapointed in a nation and whoever else, the pres himself and anybody, that can be swayed in an argument by the power of oratory or tries to sway on oratory. That is if you mean tone and bearing like "wow what a well spoken man".

What a bunch of pucky. History is full of the well spoken that lead many down the path to destruction.

reply to post by LegalizeFreedom


Thanks. Just went and borrowed some headphones for the big event. Big day for Obama and his administration.

Just bumping the thread. The summit is live now.

Bumping again. For anyone not watching, this is good stuff.

Bankruptcy is what they deserve, they should all fail, corporations are ruining this country, his fix sucks A** he's a dumb as well, a day old hampster.

Originally posted by Aggie Man
Bumping again. For anyone not watching, this is good stuff.

It would be much appreciated if someone watching could fill those of us who cannot watch in on the details from an ATS perspective?

Today's meeting is just a charade. The decision to move on the Nuclear Option has already been made with Obamacare. We all know what is in store in the months ahead and it will not be pretty. Let's see what happens when the thoughts and opinions of the nations majority are blatantly disregarded yet again.

The current events in Greece could simply be a little foreshadowing of the potential events to come on our own soil.

It's like kabuki theater, only less entertaining, and more boring.

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by genius/idoit

 

The Bill is not perfect is my argument. But it is better than letting this current trend of rising costs for the insured and no chance for the under-insured or no insured of recieving good care continue.

Oh, yeah, the old "It's not perfect but it's better than nothing" argument.

Carrying on the steak analogy:

I suppose if you were really hungry and asked someone for a steak but they said, "sorry we don't have any steak but you can have this instead, it's better than nothing" and then they proceeded to take a dump on a plate and handed it to you, you'd say "thank you" and gobble down that chow right?


That's what this health care bill is: POOP ON A PLATE


But, hey, at least it's better than nothing...

Originally posted by FortAnthem

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
reply to post by genius/idoit

 

The Bill is not perfect is my argument. But it is better than letting this current trend of rising costs for the insured and no chance for the under-insured or no insured of recieving good care continue.

Oh, yeah, the old "It's not perfect but it's better than nothing" argument.

Carrying on the steak analogy:

I suppose if you were really hungry and asked someone for a steak but they said, "sorry we don't have any steak but you can have this instead, it's better than nothing" and then they proceeded to take a dump on a plate and handed it to you, you'd say "thank you" and gobble down that chow right?


That's what this health care bill is: POOP ON A PLATE


But, hey, at least it's better than nothing...

"Poop on a plate?"

When responsible americans are setting aside a part of their hardearned salary into a financial resource pool to heal you when something unfortunate medically happened to you, and you need pay next to nothing to see another of our Planet Earth's sunrise and your loved ones again?

This is 'poop'?

[edit on 25-2-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

It's a perfectly good bill if you hold stock in the health insurance industry, otherwise it's grade A poop.

edit b/c it was a double post

[edit on 25-2-2010 by ldyserenity]