Women who wear burkas on the street in France face fines of £700

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

you are very small minded. think of the security risks. we might as well all walk around in balaclava's.

LOL small minded. It's small minded to think that living in a world where people are guilty until proven innocent is actually beneficial to the world and our future, no such negativity will only bring more negativity.

Peace.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by Toughiv
reply to post by _Phoenix_

 

you are very small minded. think of the security risks. we might as well all walk around in balaclava's.

LOL small minded. It's small minded to think that living in a world where people are guilty until proven innocent is actually beneficial to the world and our future, no such negativity will only bring more negativity.

Peace.

you are one of those people that do not actually reply to the problem i posed. I never said anything about guilty until proven innocent. I posed the problem that with burkahs being acceptable, so too should balaclavas. Therefore, if everybody were to wear balaclavas there would be a huge security problem. Its not that its guilty till prven innocent. Its just that there are a few rotten apples.

Get it?

People complaining that this is an affront to freedom are so wrong. It was once part of our own culture to suppress women and ppl of different race aswell, but laws were put in place and enforced to put an end to the inhumanity. These muslim cultures are cultures of oppression and domination of their women and minds of their youth and intolerance towards non muslims. If they want to live in a free and modern civilization they need to accept our civilized ways or they can stay in their own personal hells they create for themselves in their own countries. This is a stand for liberty and freedom an attack against the oppressive view points that can be cancerous to a country. At some point it needs to be nipped in the bud before there is a real clash of cultures and our own sovereign cultures are threatened.

Do you know how many millions of people have died in pursuit of the freedoms we have gained for ourselves? Too many!! Everyone on this earth can live in peace with us, we are tolerable people, but you must respect our ways and our plight. Attack on freedom??? This is freedom!


[edit on 8-1-2010 by Sheeper]

Sweet, when can we adopt this in America. I would say that's a win for the Christians in the war against the Islamic 15 year plan.

reply to post by RamsOnTop


You are obviously not privy to their 15 year plan.

reply to post by Occy Anonymous


Ok, so with your logic, since I'm moving to Mexico next month, everyone down there needs to learn English and accept my way of living or they are bad people and racist.

NO! That is wrong. If I'm going to move to Mexico, I'm going to learn Spanish! I would also live by their laws and should at least try and adapt to their culture, not force mine on them. That is exactly what is happening here in the US.

PS. I love that speech posted by deeznuts. I wish someone here in the US actually had a pair to stand up and say that, at least someone in government.

reply to post by sr_robert1


I'm not sure how a woman choosing how she wants to dress will affect you in any way? Well except for ignorant fear maybe?

If you would read the thread title, you would see that this is a NEW law making them pay a fine. Before this law came into place, they WERE living by the countries laws like you want, and they were not forcing ANYTHING on you.

It's not them that's changing the country, it's the goverment using muslims as an excuse to change the country and gain more CONTROL over not just muslims but YOU too.


[edit on 8-1-2010 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by minigunner
reply to post by RamsOnTop

 

You are obviously not privy to their 15 year plan.

You are not privy to "what would Jesus do".

Think about it.

What would Jesus do. If you think he would outlaw women's freedom to dress how they like, then you are a fool.

Turn the other cheek.

Originally posted by Q
Is a suicide vest a "cultural choice" of attire that we should all respect too?

'Cause all people that are Muslim or Islamic are martyrs, right?

reply to post by _Phoenix_


So if a women say here in the US, say a Mormon women decided that she was ok with being number three wife and child bearing tool for her Mormon husband, than you think that since it's part of their history/culture/religion/BS, than we can't or shouldn't say no and create laws that prevent such things? Of course my naive friend, of course we can. If and when we see such inhumane practices we always have and shall continue to disallow them. Thats freedom, thats our obligation to each other, we shall protect each other, because we all know we don't always make the right decisions, as a community we owe it to ourselves to protect our humanity.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Sheeper]

Mr Sarkozy has called burkas ‘a sign of subservience that imprison women’, while immigration minister Eric Besson described them as ‘an affront to national identity’.

The reasoning seems fair.

Then again, the reference of the Christian deity as masculine is also an implication that femininity is subservient to masculinity.

I wonder, will we see any Christian referring to or in possession of a bible referring to God as masculine get a 700 euro fine?

I suspect an agenda to stifle the spread of Muslim culture across Europe:



www.youtube.com...




[edit on 8-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

[edit on 8-1-2010 by rexusdiablos]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
reply to post by sr_robert1

 

I'm not sure how a woman choosing how she wants to dress will affect you in any way? Well except for ignorant fear maybe?

So you are saying that every woman who wears a burka in France does so on her own free will?

Strip away the religious and cultural angles here. The French government have decided to tackle this head on, just like they did with head scarves not so long ago. (if my memory is not too fuzzy)

Is their reason to prevent Islam or to preserve a French Identity or to just give ALL women in France the same equalities and freedoms

Originally posted by osc121
A question needs to be asked here

are burkas ever forced on to individuals any where in the world?

If so France as a country has the right to review their "use" within it's own borders. As a democracy it has to legislate for the majority of the population and if there is a danger of some of its citizens in certain areas to be coerced or pressured into this situation, whether for cultural or for religious reasons, then they are quite correct in their actions

If someone can prove and assure me that there are no women anywhere in the world that have been forced or pressurised into wearing a burka, I will of course rescind the above statement

[edit on 8/1/10 by osc121]

[edit on 8/1/10 by osc121]

reply to post by osc121


Exactly they have the right to decide what is best for their populous. They want to move to France than sa la vie your French now.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by Sheeper]

its not necessarily too extreme becuase they do not have the same freedoms as we do in the USA. Now I'm all for freedoms, but I also think other countries have the right to choose. No one says Muslims have to move to France or in any other place where their customs are not accepted.

reply to post by Toughiv


I don't know about you, but most people that I know don't think like that. They automatically think that ALL Muslims are extremists hell-bent on destroying the Western World. The mere fact that most Muslims are normal would never cross their minds. Its sickening to think about how bad it really is (at least with the people I know).

reply to post by Sheeper


So if a women say here in the US, say a Mormon women decided that she was ok with being number three wife and child bearing tool for her Mormon husband, than you think that since it's part of their history/culture/religion/BS, than we can't or shouldn't say no and create laws that prevent such things? Of course my naive friend, of course we can. If and when we see such inhumane practices we always have and shall continue to disallow them. Thats freedom, thats our obligation to each other, we shall protect each other, because we all know we don't always make the right decisions, as a community we owe it to ourselves to protect our humanity.



I am pretty firm on the idea that you have to follow the laws within the country with which you reside. It shouldn't matter that taken multiple wives are their cultures, Its illegal in The US, so step in line, or get out. I'm not religious myself but did not god say " follow the laws of the land"

reply to post by Sheeper


I'm not naive, I simply know more about muslims than most people here. I know that most muslims I know never have forced any of their views or lives on ANYONE.

I know that most live very normal lives, which probably is nothing like the muslim haters imagine.

Most muslims I know are BORN in this country the UK. And follow the rules just like everyone else.

When people come out with comments like, "when they come to this country they should follow the law or get out" it confuses me because I don't see these muslims who act how they describe.

But the people I DO see forcing their views and opinions and even religion on people are mostly non-muslims ironically.

They watch the propaganda media, and then they like to think they know it all and so they start to lecture and be rude to muslims, and sometimes talk non stop about jesus and how everyone should follow the son of god etc I've seen it too many times.

Burkas is actually quite a rare clothing in the muslim world anyway which is funny. Only a few countries seem to enjoy wearing these more than others.

The simple head scarf is far more popular.

And of course most young muslim women these days don't even wear scarfs, all the girls I know don't.

Even in france, if you go to paris and south of france there are many moroccans etc there, and you will spot a lot of beatuiful women, even some with light brown/blond hair etc, which you may not realise are actually muslim.

And an example of a muslim country that actually gives women choice unlike france is morocco.

The women can wear headscarf or not it's up to them, and when I go there, most women don't wear a headscarf.

That's one thing that Morocco does right, give people the freedom to make their own choice.

But france they pick and choose who they want to give freewill to or not, which is not a good sign of an advanced society.

You talk about protecting humans? What about protecting those women who WANT to wear them? What about them? Is it all about "you"?

We all know about the negative side of controlling husbands but you do know that most women choose to wear them by their own will. A lot of the men don't care wether they wear it or not. Most are not getting forced like people like to say haha.

You should see some of these arab women I know, they are the BOSS of the family. You should be more worried about the husbands lol.

In the end I feel that the negativity behind such laws as this created from "fear" and "hatred" , and the negative vibe it gives to the world, is a much more dangerous thing to worry about than women in burkas, who I rarely see walking around anyway haha.

Peace.

[edit on 8-1-2010 by _Phoenix_]

Good!! Then the pr**k extremist that the CIA and whoever funded to live/go there better give it a moment for the elite to fix the problem!

I do not have a problem with them wearing it assuming they really want to. However I doubt that/s allways the case other than perhaps a little insecurity until they find out many real men like them..

That last remark is not intended towards, "well-meaning Muslims" AT ALL.. They too ARE real men/women. I am talking about extremist only.. I believe, "to some degree", that religion, of all sorts, can serve being beneficial guidance to the masses, when taken in context..

Any takers?

I heart FrancE..

reply to post by Wendroid


I understand what your saying as to why you personally choose to wear it in temple. Now, what I don't understand is the "powerful effect" women have upon men. My issue here is that I do not believe that men are inherently more, um...sexually distracted than women, women are or can just as distracted. The only difference is society, every society, seems to find it acceptable that men be weak in this area, and women are expected to alter their dress, behavior, etc as to "not the tempt the men". Only problem is a pig is pig, it doesn't matter how the woman is dressed. Perhaps, more people (worldwide) should quit allowing their boys an excuse to misbehave.

I like this idea. Perhaps we should adopt that here in the states...maybe we could get our national identity back.