Only one percent of the Holocaust claims can be proven - Says Holocaust Scholar and Expert

You know what, in Rwanda the government's records of births and deaths were shoddy. I am willing to bet "nothing happened" in Rwanda because of the lack of good records....

I used to think that my ancestors were caveman. However, the earliest records of any relatives I have date back to the 1500's. Therefore, I am willing to bet that I am not the decent of a caveman, but of a race of alien creatures that appeared on the earth in the 1500's.

The fact is nobody knows exactly how many people died in the Holocaust. What is certain is that millions of people, including large numbers of Jews, faced horrific deaths at the hands of the Nazis in concentration camps. If you were able to perform a definitive head count of the number of Jews killed by the Nazis and you found out 5,999,999 Jews were killed, are you going to say the Jews are exaggerating with their 6 million number. If you found out the true number was 6,000,001 would you say to yourself "It's worse than we originally thought?"

Originally posted by really
reply to post by Sharrow

 

So, you're saying that you cannot debate the number of Christians killed by the Bolsheviks in the E.U. because they're Christians?

Yup. Also have you ever heard about the Remembrance Day for the Fallen and Killed Christians, whose were killed by the Communists? No. Well, neither am I. I guess it's telling everything.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint


Good point. Not to mention, there are dozens, if not more, holocaust experts who will say the exact opposite of this expert.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4c40f69a259e.jpg[/atsimg]

The above plaque, situated at Auschwitz, originally said 4 million had been murdered there. Apparently this was the basis for the famous "6 million" who died in the holocaust. Yet in 1989 the plaque was removed and replaced with this one below saying only "one and a half million" had died there. Yet it is still universally quoted that "6 million" died in the holocaust.


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/add5d140580b.jpg[/atsimg]

A fascinating twist, wouldn't you say? I think any lies and deceptions about the holocaust are a huge insult to the poor souls who suffered.

reply to post by hotpinkurinalmint
Whatever the truth is, how can we believe to anyone in this matter if even they don't have any evidences to support their claims. How can we believe the "This is the most documented historical event ever." stuff after this? Or, if everything is true, that's also another possibility, why the scholar is saying this? So I'm just trying to find an answer for this great contradiction.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Sharrow]

This thread reminds me of Government propaganda, where people like to "question" what we're told and suddenly we're being anti this and that and we should be ashamed of ourselves for questions such "obvious" events such as 911, UFO, etc.. look... "I" wasn't there and so I don't believe ALL things that I'm told via these few constipated evil old men! Bite me!

Well, if it's so "obvious" that why SO many logical people have so many brilliant questions?! It's as if this hidden force is trying to direct our mind set to their certain agenda and if you questions this agenda, they pursue other people to attack you for "questioning" it by Patriotic, Religion, Educational systems!

In THIS and ANY other world(s), there should NEVER be anything that people should not discuss, if some hidden power is trying to convince of this, the more people should question it as their secrets are NOT allowed!

If it's secret, it's bad for majority and beneficial to few!

Life, consciousness, feelings, thoughts, science, religions, etc.. are ALL for debate, and it's evolution should always be in motion!

"We never know enough, unless we know more then enough" William Blake

[edit on 6-1-2010 by freighttrain]

reply to post by Sharrow


Oh, I see. The Nazis only killed a couple million Jews in horrific ways. That completely changes my view of them...maybe the poor guys were just misunderstood?

I also like one post I saw earlier that compared the lack of physical evidence to other historical events...like the American Revolutionary War! Maybe those fortresses were just made to look nice, not for military purposes? You realize this is what your reasoning sounds like right now?

Your calm facade doesn't fool anyone; we all know that this is just masked antisemitism.

I really don't get why the jewish deaths were more relevant then the rest of the death toll.
People, WW2 killed aprox. 70 million people!

It was an atrocity! IT WAS WORLD WAR!

This is the main concern I have regarding the holocaust. The whole world suffered a great deal from it, not just the jewish world.


Just my 0.02!

[edit on 6/1/2010 by MorfeuZ]

[edit on 6/1/2010 by MorfeuZ]

Originally posted by CaptainIraq
reply to post by Sharrow

 

Your calm facade doesn't fool anyone; we all know that this is just masked antisemitism.

Hmmm. Strange. I didn't know this about myself at all. But thanks for the heads up. Come on! Taking up questions regarding a contradiction is not anti-semitism. I also asked the people at the beginning of this thread to try to avoid this as I want to hear both sides.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Sharrow]

reply to post by really



I'm sure there were lots of jews who loved german culture and people but that doesn't prove that all of them did. All I'm saying is that Eisenhower's documented hatred of Germans is understandable if he was partly jewish. If he wasn't jewish at all, then his hatred is not understandable at all because he ordered ordinary german soldiers, who were drafted whether they liked it or not, to be starved to death under conditions that even the american prison camp guards were ashamed of, in violation of the Geneva Conventions and his own military's standard practices regarding enemy pows. 1.5 million pow deaths after the war's end due to starvation and deprivation is an atrocity no matter how you look at it. But my point here is the the Victors write the history books and the more I learn about WW2, the more lies I find.

Ask yourself this. Would there have been the same political (guilt-induced) will to establish the State of Israel if the claim of jewish concentration camp deaths was only 60,000 instead of 6,000,000? I don't think so. Prewar zionist statements make it very clear that establishing a jewish homeland in Palestine was their goal. It's not a big stretch to think that they just might exaggerate the death toll in order to achieve that goal.

reply to post by Cythraul


Just curious why in one sign it says "4 million" and the other says "1.5" million and says "mainly Jews", what other type of people died?

Go there and visit the death camps, go to the holocaust museum and see for yourselfs. I am in my 30's bor and raised in the heart of the south my whole life, been around the true rednecks, and of course the skin-heads, I never thought much about the Jews or the holocaust, until one week we went to Wshington and paid a visit to the museum, it's very eye opening. Numerous generations and family blood lines erased, the tears in concrete where they were burned alive, the pictures of living skeletons. You know maybe the guy saying these things never seen some video taken of the tragedy. Yea thats right we have film of it, I'm sorry but anyone who makes such claims after all we know truly has to have a hidden agenda somewhere.

TRUTH FOR THE WORLD TO SEE!

Originally posted by MorfeuZ


This is the main concern I have regarding the holocaust. The whole world suffered a great deal from it, not just the jewish world.

I agree with you, but like I said stated earlier, Jews will disagree with you Don't forget, they're the chosen ones apparently.

Whenever I try to tell people this they tell my I'm crazy, and racist, but worst of all see me as a horrible person! Everything I say is fact, yet people still refute what I have to say. Hitler's final solution was to send all the jews from germany, not to "systematically exterminate" them. That is the Big Lie. There were no gas chambers used for murder, only to spray cloths to kill lice. And the fact that they were burned in ovens is absolutely crazy! It takes hours to properly burn a body to dust, and properly clean the oven you used. So mathematically it would have taken 100 years to do anything that is claimed. Furthermore, I would like to say that at first the number of people who were at first "murdered" at Auswitchz was 4 million, and now it's only reported at 1.5, which is still a lie.

reply to post by Beancounter72


I agree that it's wrong to punish an entire race of people or an entire nation of people or even any group of people for the actions of their ancestors.

Perhaps the worthy scholar in our disputed article can agree that Germany did instigate not one but two world wars. For whatever reason.
I don't hate Germans; I don't even blame Germans, but they do bear watching. Hopefully history has taught us that much.

And whether we call the instigators Zionists or Nazis or any other label guaranteed to elicit a knee-jerk response, it still doesn't matter what the exact number was. I doubt 6 million is a correct figure just because it's a nice round number. Whether it's 6 or 6 million or some number in between or even higher, it's not important.

People are not numbers. Are the unnecessary and tragic deaths any less tragic if they don't happen in quantity? Are their deaths more tragic if they're Christians instead of Jews? Less tragic? How do we measure the tragedy of senseless death? By labels? By numbers?

Do you doubt that people died during WWII? War for any reason is inexcusably stupid. Putting PEOPLE behind fences and working them until they drop dead is wrong no matter which group is doing it or which group it's being done to.

While we argue away on our keyboards a fence is being built around all of us right now! It's an economic fence that will assure the deaths of many Americans. We've got man-made diseases being unleashed on an unsuspecting population designed to thin out the herd's numbers to a manageable level. We've got GMO crops intended to weaken our immune system and alter our very DNA. We're being imprisoned and killed off right NOW and most don't even recognize it.

Maybe when we're all shivering to death under a bridge somewhere fighting over the last trapped rat for dinner, we can argue about how important it was to know the exact number of people that were murdered before us.

all i can say on this topic is my Oma (grandmother) lived in Regensburg, Germany during WW2. The holocaust WAS real (as well as the foo fighters.)

Although I do believe that the holocaust was set up by the ptb to shape the future (i.e. Israel.)

reply to post by Sharrow

Van Pelt is a charlatan who has been discredited to the point of him admitting he faces criminal penalties. (See, Transcript of the2000 Irving v. Lipstadt trial where he admitted to falsifying his credentials.www.fpp.co.uk...

People should compare this latest mndacity with his book The Case for Auschwitz: Evidence from the Irving Trial by Robert Jan van Pelt. Indiana University Press.

reply to post by Beancounter72


Well, considering you're wrong about Eisenhower's heritage it's a moot point, anyway.
I also love how the basically this whole argument is that a few million less Jews were killed by the Nazis and that the extra Jews thrown into the history books are part of some zionist ploy. So, at least a couple of million Jews are killed and some zionists (who must have been Jews) are able to trick or coerce the whole Western world to over-estimate the number of Jews killed. For what? That's right! So, Israel (a country that did not exist at the time) could get reparations and so that Hollywood could make money off of Holocaust movies. Fantastic!!! That's some conspiracy.

Thanks to this thread I roamed with GOOGLE and found this

IBM

Heck, the Nazis sure had the numbers. Now the question is , where are the punch cards?

But IBM's Hollerith punch card technology did exist. Aided by the company's custom-designed and constantly updated Hollerith systems, Hitler was able to automate his persecution of the Jews. Historians have always been amazed at the speed and accuracy with which the Nazis were able to identify and locate European Jewry. Until now, the pieces of this puzzle have never been fully assembled. The fact is, IBM technology was used to organize nearly everything in Germany and then Nazi Europe, from the identification of the Jews in censuses, registrations, and ancestral tracing programs to the running of railroads and organizing of concentration camp slave labor.

Now this gets better as I checked who the author was.

Edwin Black

In 2005, Black won the World Affairs Council's award for the Best World Affairs Book for Banking on Baghdad, and the Doña Gracia Medal for Best Book of The Year. In 2004, he won the coveted Rockower First Prize Award for Investigative Journalism from the American Jewish Press Association for "Funding Hate," his acclaimed, syndicated investigation of the Ford Foundation's systematic funding of hate groups.

Please note who gave him a prize. Perhaps for also for this

Vivid characters bring Banking on Baghdad to life. The followers of Islam consumed Iraq as the epicenter of a struggle between the minority Shiites and the Sunnis. The Mongol chieftain Hulagu utterly destroyed Iraq, but its remnant later came back to life. Winston Churchill solidly set the course of British petropolitics and military oil dependence on a collision course with Iraq and Iran, as the government-controlled company that became British Petroleum literally invented the geopolitical Middle East. During World War I, the British invaded Iraq for the oil they knew one day would be indispensable to all industry and militaries. C. S. Gulbenkian, the legendary Mr. Five Percent, through intrigue and high-drama created the Red Line Agreement monopoly, dividing Iraq's fabulous oil wealth between British, American, and French cartels. The Hashemites, from Sharif Hussein and King Faisal to his brutally-murdered progeny, fought alongside Lawrence of Arabia to achieve independence in Syria, but were given Iraq instead; in consequence the Arabs aborted a planned peaceful co-existence with Israel. The Mufti of Jerusalem, in his war against Zionism, using Iraq's oil and strategic location as bait, sealed an alliance with Hitler during World War II and lead a pro-Reich coup in Baghdad met by a British invasion to oust it. The post-World War II Ba'ath predecessors of Saddam Hussein ravaged Iraq's minorities and paved the way for the recently-deposed tyrant. After Banking on Baghdad, no reader will ever see Iraq the same.

reply to post by Mr_skepticc


You're saying that terrible things happened in those camps and I've never argued otherwise. But evidence that some people were killed in horrible ways does not prove that 6,000,000 were.