Cop haters, this thread is for you.

The Kernel has seen it all over the board. Something involving cops and it's automatically their fault. Here's a good example:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

4 cops get killed and some say it's because they are dirty. That's a pretty bold claim. There's no info about why yet. Oh, but wait!!! even if we get the info it's probably tarnished by the Thin Blue Line.

So the Kernel asks you, how many abuses of power do you think are perpetrated by police in a given year?

The Kernel would like to deal in FACTS, not speculation.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Kernel Korn]

Originally posted by Kernel Korn
The Kernel has seen it all over the board. Something involving cops and it's automatically their fault. Here's a good example:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

4 cops get killed and some say it's because they are dirty. That's a pretty bold claim. There's no info about why yet. Oh, but wait!!! even if we get the info it's probably tarnished by the Thin Blue Line.

So the Kernel asks you, how many abuses of power do you think are perpetrated by police in a given year?

The Kernel would like to deal in FACTS, not speculation.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Kernel Korn]

Well KK I have no problem with police in general - I would guess if the officer is corrupt, the abuse is everyday. Maybe a few will look the other way if the money is right. Majority are fair enough, although maybe stressed out which is understandable.

I think it is all about the individual

These cops in question could have been saints or devils for all I know, but I do know murder is wrong in many ways. Sorry to their families and the community

almost every day there is a new story of police abuse... its hard to keep up with them all.

Good post, S&F.

I don't care of those cops *were* dirty; murder is still a crime. If a cop shot a drug dealer in cold blood, it would be murder, right? If I shot the drug dealer in cold blood, it would still be murder. So why isn't it murder when you shoot the cops?

There is no evidence to suggest that these cops were dirty. Claims that they were are sheer fiction, until some evidence is produced to support them. If you've got some evidence that these guys were taking bribes or selling drugs or making deals with organized crime figures, show it. Otherwise, stow it. You're talking bollocks.

This attack has some elements of terrorism. You don't shoot police and expect to get away with it. Every law enforcement officer in the country is now looking for you, because you've killed some of their own. They will never rest until you are behind bars or six feet under. Unless you are seriously stupid, you knew that shooting those cops ended your life as you knew it. That's something terrorists might do, kill a few cops and go out in a blaze of glory.

I'm getting really tired of knuckleheads with their kneejerk reaction of "police bad". Yes, some are bad - but they are a minuscule minority of police. Most are decent and dedicated people trying to make their cities better places to live.

I know they murdered my life in effect and i never understand the term never committed any crime in my life.

In london uk, they went after my life like there is no tomorrow, animals, is a term too good for the criminals who murder while they wear a badge.

Trying to frame innocent people because of the way they are, is the police greatest service to there friends.

Originally posted by RoyalCanadian
almost every day there is a new story of police abuse... its hard to keep up with them all.

True. But every single day, without fail, there are millions of acts of bravery, kindness, and helpfulness performed by police. It's *impossible* to keep uo with them all. These just never make it into the news, because they're not exciting enough. If the news had to publish all the good deeds, as well as the bad, you'd be overwhelmed by the good stuff. The bad stuff would be lost in all the text.

There are what? Hundreds of thousands of police in the US? Some are going to be bad. Many others are going to be accused of misconduct, but actually were within the guidelines. That leaves most of these hundreds of thousands of police doing a great job against serious obstructions - one of which is the attitude that all cops are bad.

I think there is something to hate, and it's not the cops themselves. They are just "towing the company line"... just doing what they're told, from what I can tell. (although so many seem a little too happy to do it.)
What's to hate is the intrusions on the basic freedoms we think we maintain.
I read the entire thread you reference, and it's not where I thought the thread would go, either. To be honest, I expected more of the "they're going to use this as an excuse to take our guns". This is the first thing I think when I see one of these seemingly senseless shootings.
As for the cops and their families, it's double sided, in my opinion. There is nothing worse than a child losing their father, and a wife her husband. I know.
On the other side, you will never win an argument saying any policemen are bad, because they always throw out the "I put my life on the line for you every day" bomb.
Why didn't they consider this when they were planning children and family? Why don't they care more for their family than their job?
I feel terrible when I think of the families decimated by crime, and those by bad police practices. I really appreciate the fact that there are good, honest and upstanding policemen in this world, I just think they are much more rare than they used to be.
Finally, I'm not a cop hater. I do hate the drug war, gun control, self serving politics and the panic I feel when I see a cop car in my rear view mirror.
I think the hate you sense from the other thread is just an expression of that.

reply to post by Kernel Korn


Cops are HUMANS, not robots. No matter how well they're screened during recruitment they are always open to temptation.
Do a quick look at corruption levels across ALL aspects of society and you will see that it is HUMANS, not cops, that are corrupt.

Yeah, I feel all cozy and warm when I see the scenes of G20 and the likes. Yes, it is wrong to put all law enforcement (I hate that, he who forces the law) in the category of bad. But, look what TPTB are creating, police SS troops. When you see the actions of the basic everyday cop totally disregard the laws, it hard to show compassion. I wish I could remember the video about police abuse and a reporter who tried to file a complaint, but it totally escapes me at the moment. I'll look and see if I can find it...anyone who can help, please feel free.

reply to post by andy1033



Andy.... you always talk about how you're monitored and how they are watching you and all this pre-crime and blah blah.... same any time the government or police are mentioned?


What's the deal.

They're obviously not watching you that closely because you're always on here spouting about how your life's been ruined and how they are controlling you via mind control techniques and so on?

I mean... WTF dude?


Spill the beans.... it's becoming tiresome.

Not a cop hater per se.

But I did have an idea the other day.

I know my county sheriff's department. I was starting to put a list together of the current and future(healthcare debacle and Cap and Tax debacle) statutes where they will have to start arresting people for failure to follow all of these egregious laws.

I was going to go in and ask the Sheriff if he will follow these totalitarian and 1984esque laws that are in power now and will be in the near future. I hope to hell he has the balls to actually defend the people against a tyrannical government.

The Sheriff is the last line of defense in our government against these crazy Orwellian government sock puppets. Some Sheriff's throughout the US have started to NOT follow these laws. I hope mine has the balls to follow their lead.

Cop haters being a misnomer, I much prefer to call myself a fascist hater.

And the NEW BOSS seems to be as FASCIST as the OLD BOSS!

reply to post by Dogdish


I think you misunderstand.

I don't hate cops, I hate people who abuse their authority and position. I've known some good cops, but they were few and far between. Most stopped being cops because they couldn't stomach what they discovered they were a part of; their words, not mine.

The bad apple excuse is just that, an excuse. If it were truly just a few bad apples, why aren't they under arrest? By what logic to you excuse the good cops who are aware of lawbreaking by their fellows and choose to ignore it?

If you cite a personal safety reason, i.e., fear of being abandoned by their fellow cops in a crunch, or worse, being whacked by their co-workers, that tells me there are more bad ones than good ones. How could it not be so? Please don't say that's ridiculous and left it go at that. Explain the logic of how just a few bad apples can overwhelm a majority of good ones and prevent them from enforcing the law fairly and equally, please.

A while back there was a thread speculating whether the military would ever turn on the citizens, which most vets and active duty replied to with an emphatice "NO!". That wasn't the proper question. The military would never turn on us, but the cops can, will, and do on a regular basis. They are enforcers, after all, and seldom if ever question or care about the legality of what they do. If they're told to go round up a list of people at 3 AM, they won't question it in the slightest, but will fall in, break doors and herd the victims to whatever fate might befall them, and go to breakfast with a clear conscious.

So just because we question what they do and sometimes lack sympathy for them, it doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for the attitude.

Cops are simply too dangerous and unpredictable to be granted an automatic standing of "good guy". And the "good guy" to you might be completely different when he's not around you.

Not a cop hater my self. I know that there are dirty cops, but a lot of different
professions have 'dirty, corrupt, selfish' people in them. But never the less an interesting topic OP. S&F for you.

Until the good cops get rid of the crap at every dept. there is gonna be problems. People and cops seem to forget that there Public Servants there to serve the public. When i have to deal with cops I make them call me sir and know i'm in charge. Just remember you have the RIGHT to film ANY interactions.. The one thing cops HATE it's being filmed. In today times the video camera is just about everywhere. It's just a matter of time there will be camera's in every car. A couple of friends ALWAYS use their video phones to video any time their stopped which I could see doing if your worried. My advice is treat cops like a Big Barking dog that has no bite.

Cops...

Usually really good guys that become police officers because they wish to hunt down genuinely bad guys like murderers and rapists.

The problem comes in when government controls slowly Delphi the force away from a legitimate crime stopping and public service unit and into a social control unit.

This happens periodically in most countries and has happened here.

It happens so slowly the cops themselves often don't even realize it.


What started as a simple request for one officer to monitor traffic on road X in 1950 for traffic control, over time is slowly grown into cameras multiple squad car operations involving helicopters, non lethal weapons computer background checks and a drug search accompanied by intense grilling for future profiling purposes...

So of course we hate the cops...

They aren't cops anymore most of them are encouraged to be something more akin to a Brown Shirt these days.

Back in the days we gave them apples...

Today we hide from them, because they aren't there to police hardcore criminals or rescue people as their sole job, they are there to FIND ways to bust you.

We still Love the Fire men.

They don't go through your purse or pockets when they rescue you.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by Dogdish

 

I think you misunderstand.

I don't hate cops, I hate people who abuse their authority and position. I've known some good cops, but they were few and far between. Most stopped being cops because they couldn't stomach what they discovered they were a part of; their words, not mine.


So true. Two friends of mine in two Different cities joined the police force and within 2 months for one and 8 months for the other they quit. When asked why 'they both said they couldn't stomach giving regular citizens a hard time constantly..Also the quota for writing tickets AND making arrests..

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Cheers! I wholeheartedly agree......if you want to see what public service is all about, go into the Police Department and ask for a complaint form.
Check out PoliceAbuse.org, they have some real great footage on just how serving they can be.

Cops are innately good, but most all of them go south after some years.

You would like facts? Okay.

I had my brand new, off the lot, van torn to shreds by a squad of Las Vegas policemen because I was from PA and they suspected I was trafficking drugs to other states. They had no reason to suspect this whatsoever. They stopped me, gave me no reason as to why I was stopped, then destroyed my beverage coolers, vehicle interior, and tires.

As soon as they were done, without even speaking a word to me, they got into their cruisers and took off. I was left stranded in a strange city with a worthless car. They found nothing and they knew they would get in trouble for it, so they took off without giving me a way to charge them for their crime.

I should say that I have absolutely no record whatsoever.

I called the police department over 50 times and not once did I get an answer.

Those people are criminals worse than any other I've had to deal with.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by Dogdish

 

I think you misunderstand.

I don't hate cops, I hate people who abuse their authority and position. I've known some good cops, but they were few and far between. Most stopped being cops because they couldn't stomach what they discovered they were a part of; their words, not mine.

The bad apple excuse is just that, an excuse. If it were truly just a few bad apples, why aren't they under arrest? By what logic to you excuse the good cops who are aware of lawbreaking by their fellows and choose to ignore it?

If you cite a personal safety reason, i.e., fear of being abandoned by their fellow cops in a crunch, or worse, being whacked by their co-workers, that tells me there are more bad ones than good ones. How could it not be so? Please don't say that's ridiculous and left it go at that. Explain the logic of how just a few bad apples can overwhelm a majority of good ones and prevent them from enforcing the law fairly and equally, please.

A while back there was a thread speculating whether the military would ever turn on the citizens, which most vets and active duty replied to with an emphatice "NO!". That wasn't the proper question. The military would never turn on us, but the cops can, will, and do on a regular basis. They are enforcers, after all, and seldom if ever question or care about the legality of what they do. If they're told to go round up a list of people at 3 AM, they won't question it in the slightest, but will fall in, break doors and herd the victims to whatever fate might befall them, and go to breakfast with a clear conscious.

So just because we question what they do and sometimes lack sympathy for them, it doesn't mean there aren't valid reasons for the attitude.

Cops are simply too dangerous and unpredictable to be granted an automatic standing of "good guy". And the "good guy" to you might be completely different when he's not around you.

Wow, I have to go back and re-read my post, because I agree with you completely, and I didn't mean to say anything to the contrary.
What I tried to say was that the purpose of police has changed, it seems, and the change has come from the top. The bad laws, the emphasis on putting people into "The System", and the general "bully" techniques that are now the norm, those are what's bad.
I don't think these things were some sort of grassroots movement by the rank and file of the policemen, I think they are trained this way. Therefore, I can't hate the idiots, I hate the new emphasis on control.
Believe me, I read your story, and I can match it. I wonder how they can sleep at night, knowing what they're doing to people's family and lives, not to mention their ability to earn a living.

simply put to answer the kernels question


reported abuses id estimate at around a couple hundred+

actual abuses where the victims are too scared to report the abuses to the same organization whos people abused them

a couple thousand easily

its easy for someone from the burbs to have a hard time believing how corrupt a police department can be, but someone who grew up in the city, especially a "good citizen" with open eyes who lives in the habitat in question on a daily basis, its easy to see how it could easily be thousands of abuses a year nationwide, if not more

even if the abuse is something simple as some kid getting hassled for being born onto a certain block of the city, all the way up to an old 80-90 year old woman with Alzheimer's and a knife getting thrown to the ground and having her head cracked open because she was a danger to people in a wide open parking lot


police can be defended from here till the end of time

the reason, they do good

police will also be put down and distrusted from here until the end of time

the reason, they abuse their power

whether they are having a bad day, serious mental issues, "legitimately feel they are doing the right thing", or just know the person and have a grudge against them, on a daily basis there are always a few rotten apples in every bunch


the problem with rotten apples in the law enforcement industry, is they arent fruit, they are our protectors, our servers, when they fail us? what do we do then?

nothing we can do, they are at the top, and the internal investigations, we all know that doesnt do much, they would much rather deal with it quietly then publicly, so even if a cop screws up, you'll be hard pressed to find out about it

that also makes the abuses go underreported even when they are reported


so with that all said, i can understand where kernel is coming from, being annoyed with the "police bashing", but for the kernel to be realistic, he also needs to be able to understand the other side of things also.

people dont have some made up form of hatred for the police, every form of hatred, no matter how ignorant it may seem, always has something at the root of the cause

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Dramey]


edited to say after reading my post again, i wanted to say, not only police abuse their power

that is the problem with power and humanity, there are very few humans in our society, even since the beginning of human existence that were able to achieve a form of power and not abuse it, we all have our own agendas, there are many who put themselves and their own ambitions above all else

until we find a way to make us all truly equal, those with power will always abuse those without it. thats historical and future fact

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Dramey]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by Dramey]