Important Information: If you want to start your own website on ATS topics...

SUMMARY: If you have or plan to make a site, and would like to promote it on ATS, please contact us first. In most cases, we will help you out.

...

From time to time, over the years, there has been a handful of unfortunate events concerning members that could have easily been avoided. For the most part, these events are related to an exuberance over the topics discussed on ATS, combined with a core misunderstanding of some of our primary ideals.

The events are invariably tied to members seeking to create their own blogs, sites, or discussion boards covering the same type of alternative topics discussed here on ATS. Then there will be the attempt to stealthily attract ATS members, almost always resulting in bannings, and then the predictable "ATS is censoring me" response.


Now, to be clear, we have no issue with members who create websites with alternative topics themes. In fact, we often have been supportive of our members who seek to do this, but come to us first. Where it becomes a problem is when those members try to "pull a fast one" buy doing it under the radar for various reasons.


There are three important Terms and Conditions issues at play here...


Link Spamming: Promoting your site or discussion board on other discussion boards without prior permission is among the more egregious offenses of online "netiquette." Lots of ATS members have personal sites, blogs, and discussion boards and are allowed to link in posts and signatures... because they came to us first and asked for permission.


Recruitment: Our strong stance against using ATS for recruitment of any kind is focused on the ultra-vigilent protection of member privacy -- especially given the nature of the topics on ATS, and the kinds of people those topics attract. One easy way to begin to harvest personal information from ATS is to create a discussion board and invite members to join. There have been at least two (that we know of) attempts to harvest ATS user information for malicious intent, using this very method. This is why we restrict recruitment, and prefer to know who is creating a new site.

Marketing: Item 4a of our Terms & Conditions expressly forbids the kind of "stealth marketing" involved with using ATS expressly to promote another site or product.


And one important issue unrelated to our Terms and Conditions...


Ethics: Is it really ethical to spend time on a website (for which several people have spent considerable blood, sweat, and tears building), getting to know the users, topics, and format then attempt to create another site with the intent to stealthily attract away those users?



So... the short story is; if you (an ATS member) have or are planning to make a site and would like to promote it here, please contact us first -- don't be sneaky. If you've been a member in good standing for at least six months and your site has no porn, gore, or drug content, then very likely all will be fine.


Another important note... if you're ever suddenly banned, don't run away all full of sour and piss, assuming the worst. In many cases, those who are banned to then make contact to discuss the matter end up returning. If you get banned for doing what's discussed in this post, and never seek to discuss the matter with us, we have no choice but to assume less-than-honorable intent.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by SkepticOverlord]

How odd that this just happened recently too me.....another site with same topics. I will be careful not to upset or violate any rules my Liege

Thanks for the heads up.

why do people making a separate site have to contact you? Its not like google asked yahoo if they were allowed to make one.

I think alittle healthy competition is good. If more sites pop up groups can be spread out and websites can be narrowed. and some websites can be a little bit more loose with the leashes then ATS and let more controversial threads be posted. ATS is like a stepping stone while people decide how far into the hole they want to go.

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
why do people making a separate site have to contact you? Its not like google asked yahoo if they were allowed to make one.

I think alittle healthy competition is good. If more sites pop up groups can be spread out and websites can be narrowed. and some websites can be a little bit more loose with the leashes then ATS and let more controversial threads be posted. ATS is like a stepping stone while people decide how far into the hole they want to go.

I believe what he means - is that if they want to advertise their site here at ATS, to contact Admin:

Link Spamming: Promoting your site or discussion board on other discussion boards without prior permission is among the more egregious offenses of online "netiquette." Lots of ATS members have personal sites, blogs, and discussion boards and are allowed to link in posts and signatures... because they came to us first and asked for permission.

[edit on October 27th 2009 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by Doc Tesla

So... the short story is; if you (an ATS member) have or are planning to make a site and would like to promote it here, please contact us

If they want to advertise it here.

reply to post by elevatedone


i see. i took it a different way. the paranoid person inside me screamed censorship and the rest was blurred out.

Over 30 flags and only one comment. Looks like everything is in order here.

This is an interesting site for many reasons. However, I reject the idea that my behavior may be controlled or restricted in any way, especially unfairly, behind the scenes, and without just cause. I disapprove of the uneven approach and look forward to my ban from this site should you deem it appropriate. Until that time, my freedom of speech continues to exist in its restricted state under your clearly specified terms and conditions agreement.

I'm happy to report that under no conditions do I seek anyone's approval or commendation, nor do I seek personal information. My objective is to bring an air of freedom to the effort toward truthfulness and to expose lies. That's it.

I am a new member on one of the sites you clandestinely refer to in your OP. It was recently created by some of my friends from this site that were banned suddenly. I asked about them here on ATS, not knowing what happened. Soon after I was dealt with unfairly by having a 1000 point deduction in a Chemtrail thread where my statement was the obvious truth. The instigator was ignored by moderators. I was reprimanded for my "behavior" and suggested that I "calm down".

I don't need a mommy figure here thank you. I'm a big girl. Please don't insult your members and they will likely continue driving traffic to your advertisements which increase this boards revenue, visibility and perceived stature.

If I am suddenly banned or this post is removed for T&C violations, the proof we all seek will become obvious to even the most unobservant.

I do appreciate your attempt to control the damage that's already been done. There is no point in trying to hide behind pretty words while attempting to moderate public opinion.






That may be your stance but from this perspective, it is pure propaganda and a clear (and clever) manipulation of facts in the case you are trying to make.

I have copied this reply and will post it elsewhere should the situation warrant that tactic. The public will judge without manipulation or fear of repercussion.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Now, to be clear, we have no issue with members who create websites with alternative topics themes. In fact, we often have been supportive of our members who seek to do this, but come to us first. Where it becomes a problem is when those members try to "pull a fast one" buy doing it under the radar for various reasons.

So now anyone who is a member of this site needs to ask your permission before they can create a website of their own?

Hmmmm....

Edit to add:

What do you mean by ATS topics? Do you guys own the copyright on conspiracy's now?

[edit on 27-10-2009 by lucentenigma]

can you please remove me from your spam list,

thanks

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
why do people making a separate site have to contact you?

As has been explained in the opening post... only if they want to promote it on ATS.

Well I get invitations by members that I have grown to respect and known very well I don't mine the invitations from those members.

I always tell politely that the only place I post and visit is ATS, I am not as confident in other sites as I am here in ATS, I guess is because it was the first place I ever posted something and the only place that fill my needs.

[edit on 27-10-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Great topic...

I have been contacted by "others" who are no longer members for various reasons. I joined ATS because of what it is not because who was here. I am a member of a few sites, all have their pros and cons. IMO ATS has the least fleas. However I've seen some things that I disagree with but most involve other peoples business and honestly is none of mine.

I never crosspost threads or topics on those other sites.

I agreed to and try my best to follow ATS's T & C.

I'm a satisfied member.


Thanks for allowing me to be a member.

John

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Doc Tesla
why do people making a separate site have to contact you?

As has been explained in the opening post... only if they want to promote it on ATS.

yea i noticed that only after posting. sorry about the confusion

Skeptic Overlord,

I have respectfully abided by the T&C of this site. I have not recruited for any other website, and while I choose to post in other websites I honor my obligations per my acceptance of the terms that allows me to post here.

When I first began posting here a few years back (I've since forgotten the old password) I did so because it was "fun". Talking about aliens, the reptilian agenda, conspiracies, etc was a lively way to pass the time. People were excited. The dialog was lively and spirited, without the temper tantrums and snark that has become de rigueur in some of the more popular threads.

I do not believe that people are leaving ATS for other websites because of a clever spam campaign, nor do I believe that the owners are the ones soliciting their friends from ATS. It is more a matter of people wanting their friends to post with them. The internet has closed the distance between friends and family. These online communities become delicate ecosystems, when one element goes missing the ecosystem dies.

People are leaving because they do not feel respected in many cases by some, not all, of the moderators. Whether this is "truth" or perception, I am not sure. There are many users here, and the mods cannot temper all of them. However, I have noticed a great deal of bullying that goes unchecked, and have stepped in many times to take on positions that I do not agree with just to provide a balance. It is easy enough for me to do as I am not emotionally tied to the arguments as many here are.

The use of laughter icons should be if someone truly made a joke, not to make a joke out of someone. I made an example of this in a post and asked the perpetrator how they liked it, and it seemed to fall on deaf ears. Multiple ????? and !!!!!! is also disrespectful. Usage of "ridiculous" and "absurd" is unhelpful and cheapens the argument. When posters do that in mass, when people "star" them for it, it makes the person whose "theory" is being punched around feel as though the attacks are personal.

I have seen more bullying towards people with alternative or conspiracy theories than those who have a more conventional approach. This is not healthy to the survival of a website that used to cater to the "odd" topic. Making people feel stupid or wrong for questioning means they will cease to vocalize the question, and result in your losing business to the "sheets" and the "ickes" and the "jones" sites. For those that feel these people are misguided but nice people, do you really want to see them lost in a sea of like-minded? Don't you want them back? Weren't they once your friends?

Who will you have to argue with when they're all gone?

I loved this site. I still like it and hope that things turn around. However, it has become boring when everyone agrees that the mundane is the truth and pats themselves on the backs in congratulations.

This is not the doing of Skeptic Overlord. This is an online community. Meaning that it is all our doing. Now what are WE going to do about it?

Thank you, Sir, for allowing us to post here and I hope I am allowed to continue to post here.

Respectfully,

A Fortiori



[edit on 27-10-2009 by A Fortiori]

I know I have noticed this type of stuff before. I didn't know it was that prevalent as to bring it to everyone's attention though. You have laid out a good way to avoid this type of activity though and I hope we see results.

Originally posted by lucentenigma
So now anyone who is a member of this site needs to ask your permission before they can create a website of their own?

By no means is that the intent of the opening post.

So signature space is advertising space, but only when one has another site linked in their signature, and not in posts? Hmm, so how far does this go? Like, let's say you have a single post from another competing site linked in your sig. Does that qualify as a no no?

Or what if you have a youtube video linked in your sig which was made by the members of a competing site- like me? It could be argued that I am promoting another site indirectly. Should I get rid of it?

Originally posted by A Fortiori
People are leaving because they do not feel respected in many cases by some, not all, of the moderators.

Please, if you feel there is a public situation for which we should be aware, let me know.


However, keep in mind that, in almost all cases, any public display of minor-to-major staff animosity toward problematic members often includes significant "behind the scenes" communications for which most members will never be aware.

I am a little amused by this thread.

Not by the topic, obviously it is something that needed to be addressed for people were promoting other sites on ATS, and I can see the frustration where people have put SO much time into this place that it defeats the purpose if we are advertising other sites as "better" or more "in depth" in regards to various other topics.

I am amused by the fact that everytime the Mods or Staff come out with something like this, which directly affects their business model (Let's face it, ATS is a business) people jump up and down and scream censorship of the individual, when it really has nothing to do with that.

It's a matter of respect, integrity and pride in and around a website which has done A LOT for our fellow conspiracy community. Without ATS there would be no "stable" place to discuss these topics.

We can simply wander over to another one of these sites to see the massive difference that proper oversight provides.

In any case, let's remember that we have members and as members we have a T&C to abide by. Nothing stated in this post is new, it's all there to be read when you sign up. This is just a reminder folks.

Thanks for discussion and the great website SO.

~Keeper

I am not sure how pertinent or helpful this post will be so Staff please feel free to delete it if you feel it inappropriate in any way though I post it simply to try to be helpful to all.

One recently banned popular member who I was friends with confided in me privately through U2U shortly before he was banned that he was concerned about the prior recent banning of another popular member and had heard some chatter that he was considered by some as being a trouble maker and was concerned he too might soon be banned.

At the time I cautioned him and stated the following, it’s alright to be passionate about the topics and issues that interest you but it’s probably not a good idea to be on a night and day mission constantly starting threads on those issues and topics like you are a person with an agenda.

It’s true that very few people would not agree that there are some disturbing and potentially frightening trends taking place in the world today, both domestically here in America and internationally abroad all over the world.

It’s good to want to educate yourself and help others learn to better understand some of the details of these often complex and intricate problems many of them have roots going back decades if not centuries, if not millennia.

At the same time though its bad when what you learn and the pace that you learn it causes you to become emotionally unbalanced or stressed to the point where you loose focus on a healthy balance and stop sleeping well, or eating well, and become intently and constantly focused on some mission or agenda to save the world or the world from this or that.

ATS is a great place to learn and share and discuss, it’s not a suitable platform for saving the world though! You might want to turn off your computer and get out of your chair if you really want to try that (just a suggestion).

A person convinced against their own will is a person who remains unconvinced, no matter how factual or true your argument and beliefs might be not everyone is going to accept them. It’s called freewill and anyone’s individual fight to ensure or preserve their own shouldn’t be waged at the cost of anyone else’s.

It’s about sharing, learning and debating, not an underlying need to convince people what you believe at any and all costs.

I liked and admired in many ways a couple of the recently banned members but they were obsessed or as Skeptical Overlord puts it ‘overly exuberant’.

Balance is an important thing in life, balance on the topics you want to learn about and share and discuss and debate.
Balance as in regards to the time you spend doing that here on ATS and the other important things in life.
Believe me when I say come the day I think the world is truly about to end, I won’t be here on ATS, but out having a nice steak dinner, enjoying the fresh air on sentient experiences not virtual experiences life is all about in my humble opinion.

Take it easy, take it easy
Don’t let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy!

The Eagles.

As far as people starting other websites I highly respect businesses proprietary rights to ensure and safeguard its hard won clientele from aggressive startups and competitors. Many companies that employ people whose business is clientele based ask their employees to sign non-competition clauses in the event that they leave the companies employ.

Besides ATS is the best site on the net and has the best staff in my humble opinion. Why accept a cheap and hasty imitation when you already have access to the best?