Masons and conspiracy theories

Originally posted by jhova
[What are you a bangtell, visit Bangkok lately?

I waited on responding to this quip, it's immediate meaning escaping me and as the Game & Fish Wardens (ATS Moderators?) say: you have to throw the little ones back... but an idle mind is the Freemason's... errr... Devils board post.

First step, Google the unknown (Bangtell), result? Bangtell (working name for
new demo) in the music industry... far from the worst thing I've ever been called, even by myself.

Step two, given jhova's shall we say "creativity" with the English language I set out to sort through the various permutations of "bangtell" the first coming to mind was "banktell", still a far cry from the stinging riposte I assumed that was intended, but I digress...

A Google of "banktell" yielded far more results than my previous query, yet as I scrolled down though the links I found nothing of significance until... it can't be... NO! "Interviews: From Hell". Pay dirt! Surely this would provide me with the meaning of the attempted derision? Would I in the next few moments be reduced to a quivering mass? Fetal position be damned, I forged ahead, cautiously reading each line knowing the next line would lead to... This:
"In the movie, the prostitutes are referred to in a number of colorful ways. One of the most common was the Victorian euphemism, "an unfortunate." Another one sounded to me a lot like "banktell." Bankteller? I wondered. That can't be right. After the screening I asked other critics, but they too hadn't understood the word. So I figured I'd ask Heather. She should know.

In the movie, what was that term they referred to you guys as?

"Unfortunates?"

No, not that one. A more slangy one.

"Pinchpricks?"

Uh, no, but my, that's colorful. I actually don't recall hearing that one in the movie, but . . .

"Bangtail?"

Yeah, yeah, that's the one! What does that MEAN, anyway? Oh . . . wait . . . banG, not banK, bang . . . tail . . . oh, okay, I get it, never mind, I understand.""

jhova, I understand as well, however the notion that I may still profit from my "goods" is hardly an insult, nay, a compliment! As to my recent travel, Thailand has not been a recent destination, Wat Phra Kaeo (Temple of the Emerald Buddha) is however, on the list.

The reason for this elaboration on a feeble attempt to insult me; was that jhova cannot properly quote his foundation of argument (the oft aforementioned "From Hell"). If a single word is misinterpreted, would not other, more "relevant" passages be similarly flawed?
This concludes the journey... it was a brief one.

Shut up, it was still funny as hell no matter how I spelled it.But I enjoyed your response, funny as hell also, thanks, I needed that one

LOL...*sigh* Jhova has brought his form of illiterate born again yammer to this forum too eh?

Well, it's sad that the Masonic brothers feel the need to stand in defence against somebody so obviously uneducated and ignorant. Gentlemen, my suggestion is, to ignore him. No matter what you say, facts you bring up or honesty you stand by...he'll continue to flame you in the name of Jesus.

Quite awhile ago I was a wild teen and got into quite a bit of trouble and caught some community service time cleaning a township building with an elderly gentlemen...he was the most caring and giving my I have ever known. He was kind, considerate and a great listener. He was also extremely generous. He was a Mason and a damn good one in my opinion. He talked alot about the fundraisers and the shelters and food pantries. He was the most CHRISTIAN Christian I had ever met and when it was time for me to leave my duty he broke me off about 25 extra hours to make my P.O. smile.

I've learned never to judge a man based on a label or title...even if that label is SATANIST. A man can only truly be judged by his actions and heart. If we were all to lend ourselves to jhova's thought process we would all be forced to say BLACK PEOPLE WERE DIRTY, BABY MAKING, CRIMINALS WITH NO RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES OR THE LAW. Now, is that statement true? Of course not, it's a disgusting comment...jhova himself is black...I wonder how he would feel to have his race slandered based upon the actions of a few people? I wonder if he feels it's fair to be slandered based on nothing more than skin color or a label? I'm sure it'll be outrage and flaming but the truth is...his actions are no different toward Masons. Ignorance is unfortunately his lot.

I would like to extend my thanks to all the Masons out there making a difference in their communities...for some people, you're their last chance. Bless all of you for your hard work.

Thanks for the first hand anecdotal evidence of Freemasonry, this is the best form of evidence of the true nature of the Craft. I hope others have similar experiences they can relate within this forum.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
Thanks for the first hand anecdotal evidence of Freemasonry, this is the best form of evidence of the true nature of the Craft. I hope others have similar experiences they can relate within this forum.

Don't let jhova and the born again propaganda get to you...it's funny, it seems that while the tin foil hat may protect him from "them" getting in it also seems to block incoming information vital to the learning process as well, sad really.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
I waited on responding to this quip...........

Nice, humourous piece of detective work there.
It's just a pity that Jhova didn't check his source as thouroughly.

"From Hell" was adapted straight from an Alan Moore comic book. Alan Moore is a great comic book creator - he's created comics on 2000AD, Return of the SwampThing, Marvelmen and Batman amongst others, but he's hardly the factual writer that Jhova claims him to be.

Ironically, he is a massive fan of the occult and claims that he is a magician himself and that magic is at the centre of his life. He has his own personal alter to a Roman Snake God and claims that he regularly converses with demons.

So what have we got? Jhova is using a movie (as his main source) written by an occultist to claim that freemasonry is a lie because it is occultist . Hmmm. Can you see the problem there?

Originally posted by Leveller
So what have we got? Jhova is using a movie (as his main source) written by an occultist to claim that freemasonry is a lie because it is occultist . Hmmm. Can you see the problem there?

When he first started posting, it was mostly a conglomerate of incoherent rambling about pagans, movies, and human sacrifice, thickly laced with talk about �mysteries�. He then began to behave disrespectfully and ungentlemanly to several ladies on this forum.
To me, the only mystery is why I�m the only one who�s put him on �ignore�.

Originally posted by Preest
LOL...*sigh* Jhova has brought his form of illiterate born again yammer to this forum too eh?

Well, it's sad that the Masonic brothers feel the need to stand in defence against somebody so obviously uneducated and ignorant. Gentlemen, my suggestion is, to ignore him. No matter what you say, facts you bring up or honesty you stand by...he'll continue to flame you in the name of Jesus.

Quite awhile ago I was a wild teen and got into quite a bit of trouble and caught some community service time cleaning a township building with an elderly gentlemen...he was the most caring and giving my I have ever known. He was kind, considerate and a great listener. He was also extremely generous. He was a Mason and a damn good one in my opinion. He talked alot about the fundraisers and the shelters and food pantries. He was the most CHRISTIAN Christian I had ever met and when it was time for me to leave my duty he broke me off about 25 extra hours to make my P.O. smile.

I've learned never to judge a man based on a label or title...even if that label is SATANIST. A man can only truly be judged by his actions and heart. If we were all to lend ourselves to jhova's thought process we would all be forced to say BLACK PEOPLE WERE DIRTY, BABY MAKING, CRIMINALS WITH NO RESPECT FOR THEMSELVES OR THE LAW. Now, is that statement true? Of course not, it's a disgusting comment...jhova himself is black...I wonder how he would feel to have his race slandered based upon the actions of a few people? I wonder if he feels it's fair to be slandered based on nothing more than skin color or a label? I'm sure it'll be outrage and flaming but the truth is...his actions are no different toward Masons. Ignorance is unfortunately his lot.

I would like to extend my thanks to all the Masons out there making a difference in their communities...for some people, you're their last chance. Bless all of you for your hard work.

Who the hell are you?First of all I don't see ANY of you with PHd's in anything.I see a lot of opinionated talk, and a lot of people posting a site like it is a fact.Let me make this clear...ANYBODY CAN POST A SITE REPRESENTING THEIR PARTICULAR POINT OF VIEW.And just because certain people are bandwagon jumpers, does not mean anything.The highest masons are in the royal family, and Albert Pike himself said that higher masons purposely lead the lower masons because they deserve to be lead.So who is leading who?As for you Preest, you don't know too much.You claim to be a writer, so?Was I supossed to be impressed?Does that make your points more valid?Don't mistake my rude sense of humor or sometimes hot temper for ignorance.I know when people snow storm me, and this whole "mason" scenario is bogus.I don't care what you people think you know, I just spent my Junior year looking at Sacred religious places, religious, mystery religions and the occult.I have a 3.4 average.So all of you CAN GO TO HELL with the, "I some crazy dumb kid routine."I am a grown man with kids.And the comments about african american stereotyping was just dumb.Why even go there?Hey congratulations on getting out though, did not know you were in.Got a best friend doing 13 right now.But that still does not mean you can try to 304 people, okay?But beside all that.I know that people are to be judged individually.My whole point was that the basis for masonry is secretly satanism.Through using these symbols, like the ones on the dollar bill, the obelisk, it is what it is.My point is that the highest of the high are decieving its members and non members.Most of the members are doing great things.My point is that it was based on occult practices, the capitol area is laid out like that, and even the words they use are to have a special meaning and power, to the many way.These are things that I believe are evil or not right.The Bible says that all types of groups and religions (christianity included) would be corrupt.It is not like I ever said that all masons were running around doing sacrifices, and drinking blood.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by jhova]

Preest, all bs aside.When you post, you come off like you know everything.Maybe it is not like that, but that is how you put it out there.I don't know everything, and don't claim to.But I know you don't either.We BOTH have room to learn in many areas.And I feel the only problem I have with you is that you think you know it all.Is life supposed to be a learning experience?You are suppose to keep learning things until you die.But you cannot learn anything from anyone if you already know something, if you know the answer, even before the question is asked, every time.I say that there are some terrible things that are going on in society, especially this country, our youth, school systems, the government, and the way we think as a whole.And I think I have a good reason to believe so.If you continue to go around with this type of attitude, how can you learn anything?Listen, we can all learn from each other, but we can't if we won't listen from the get go.It seems everyone in our generation thinks they know it all.Everyone wants to know something that another person doesn't to feel superior, why?Why the competition?I thought we were trying to expand our mind, and not close them.Bother, let me tell you something, I am from the streets to.I have met and been around some of the worst criminals you can ever imagine, and still do to this day.But I also know some of the smartest people also.I am a humble person really.And I come from humble backgrounds.Believ me when I say I take all of these topics to heart for the most part, because these are issues that could make or break our planet in the future ( conspiracies against the free people).A lot of the information you presented, I knew before I though of you, it is not anything knew to me.I will leav you with this, and remeber, EVIDENCE, can be decieving, and evidence, can be right in your face, but how come you can't you see it unless the government, or a scientist tells you?Is it that everyone other than the government or scientist is an idiot?Or is it that we all have brain power, that should be respected, and can have value.Something for you to think about.No ranting, no raving, just think!

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by jhova]

Stick to the topic.

[Edited on 5-17-2004 by Preest]

Perhaps all of you could stay on the topic, rather than deliver taunting personal attacks. Now THAT would be a novel idea.

With all due respect to all the posters, would it be possible to get back on topic? (edited: sorry I guess we all postred at once.)
I will be one p/ssed off woman if this thread gets trashed. And, at the rate jhova is going, we won't have to hit that ignore button.
*sigh* Most of what he had to say had little to do with the topic, anyway.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

It seems like questions people had have been answered rather thoroughly, is there anything else anyone would like to know?

You people are hopeless.And scared.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova
You people are hopeless.

And scared.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by jhova]

Yes, that's it. Scared of the "truth"...stick to the topic. If you have anything relevant to post feel free to.

All I have to say is this:www.freemasonrywatch.org...
Pay close attention to your boy Albert Pike saying that all masons are mislead by the true meaning of freemasonry and its symbols.If you go back to part 1, you will see where Albert Pike is quoted saying that lucifer is to be worshipped, and that Christianity is to be overthrown>Oh yeah, also how he was a racist, and had 0 intentions on blacks being andmitted.This is from his own words, some of which comes from his book.Say what you want, but this man says something different.And take that:www.freemasonrywatch.org...

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by jhova]

Originally posted by jhova

[deletia]

Who the hell are you?First of all I don't see ANY of you with PHd's in anything.

I have a B.Sc. cum laude and one years work on an international Master's degree... does that help?

I see a lot of opinionated talk, and a lot of people posting a site like it is a fact.

Like www.freemasonrywatch.org?

[deletia]

I don't care what you people think you know, I just spent my Junior year looking at Sacred religious places, religious, mystery religions and the occult.I have a 3.4 average.

Nyah, nyah, I just finished my first year of my after-degree, and I have a 3.8 average... does that make me more knowledgeable about Masonry than you?

[deletia]

I know that people are to be judged individually.

Except, of course, Freemasons, right?

My whole point was that the basis for masonry is secretly satanism.

Nope. The basis for Masonry is secretly being nice to people.

Through using these symbols, like the ones on the dollar bill, the obelisk, it is what it is.

Now, this makes me mad, because it insults George Washington, a Mason I greatly admire. The dollar bill symbols were not created by Masons and have nothing per se to do with Masonry, as I showed earlier.

As for the spire, or "obelisk," you should be aware of what is printed on top of that structure, since you are a patriotic American. If not, I'll tell you. Written on top of the spire is the latin phrase "Laus Deo," which means "Praise God." Sure sounds Satanic to me.

My point is that the highest of the high are decieving its members and non members.

I know the people you think are "the highest of the high" for Canada. They are fine, kind people, and the person who you think of as the ultimate "highest of the high" for Canada is not only a good man and true but a fervent and faithful Lutheran, quite involved in his church.

Most of the members are doing great things.

Excellent. Thank you. So, if they're doing great things, what is your issue?

[deletia]

It is not like I ever said that all masons were running around doing sacrifices, and drinking blood.

Really? Allow me to quote from an earlier post of yours:

Freemasonry is definitely dealing with the occult.They worship Isis (the moon goddess, wife of the sun god Osiris).

[deletia]

They also deal with sun worship and human sacrifice.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
With all due respect to all the posters, would it be possible to get back on topic? (edited: sorry I guess we all postred at once.)
I will be one p/ssed off woman if this thread gets trashed. And, at the rate jhova is going, we won't have to hit that ignore button.
*sigh* Most of what he had to say had little to do with the topic, anyway.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Alright, you're completely right, I for one would like to apologise for getting angry and posting off-topic.

I'd also like to say I'm very enthusiastic to answer more questions, if there are some more you'd like to ask.

AlexK, no need to apologize, I just wanted to mention getting back to topic, and ZZZ did it at the same time...and I guess Preest, too.

I have a question that I don't remeber seeing mentioned anywhere. Of course, it doesn't apply to me, but there are a lot of younger posters here.
What is the age requirement for becoming a Mason.

Also, I remember someone early on in this thread mention that Masonry stood for freedom. And how many of our Founding Fathers were Masons.
In your opinion, how did Masonry get such a bad rap then?
How does Masonry try to keep our country free?

Why is the Catholic Church so against Masonry?

Thanks to all in advance.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
AlexK, no need to apologize, I just wanted to mention getting back to topic, and ZZZ did it at the same time...and I guess Preest, too.

Nonetheless, allowing myself to be possessed by anger was wrong. Anyway, let's get on to these questions, which rock.

I have a question that I don't remeber seeing mentioned anywhere. Of course, it doesn't apply to me, but there are a lot of younger posters here.

What is the age requirement for becoming a Mason.

Very good question. In my jurisdiction, a man must be 21 before he can become a Mason, no exceptions. In certain other jurisdictions, a man who is the son of a Mason is known as a Lewis, and this individual may join at 18, while individuals who are not Lewises (sp?) must wait until they are 21. One of my friends was a Lewis back in Scotland, and he had been the Master of a number of different types of Lodges (Ark Mariner etc.) by the time he was my age. Lucky so-and-so

Quick note, though... why do you say it doesn't matter to you? Don't forget about co-Masonry, which I think someone else mentioned before, and Women's Masonry, which is a separate thing I know even less about. I'm not sure what the minimum ages are for these orders.

Also, I remember someone early on in this thread mention that Masonry stood for freedom. And how many of our Founding Fathers were Masons.
In your opinion, how did Masonry get such a bad rap then?

Masonry already had a bad rap long before the Founding Fathers of your country. I have seen a quote from a flyer supposedly distributed in London in the 1600s which speaks out against men professing themselves to be "Freed Masons," and says many of the same things we hear nowadays: if they're so good, why would they have to meet in secret, the people who join don't know that "higher-ups" are actually evil, etc.

How did this "bad-rappage" start? I'm not an expert on this type of thing, but I'd say that one element is fear of the unknown, one element is jealousy because some people wanted to join and weren't invited (and were unaware of the fact that they had to ask), one element is a desire to find someone to blame for society's ills, one element is anger that we allow people of all religions to sit together, and that there are many other reasons as well.

How does Masonry try to keep our country free?

Masonry tries not only to keep your country free, but all countries free. I must say that this is more of a Scottish Rite thing than a craft lodge thing, IMHO. The way Masonry works, in all things, is by improving the individual, so that he may improve his society. Freemasonry does not try to alter society at all itself. It tries to alter the men who make up society, and influence them to be better men, kinder men, etc.

As for what is actually said in the Scottish Rite about keeping all countries free, all I can say is that the necessity of doing so is enphasised. Can't give away all our secrets, now can I?

Why is the Catholic Church so against Masonry?

I'm also not an expert on this. One reason I think is the perception that we are descended from the Knights Templar (who were destroyed by the RCC) and have all vowed revenge. This is not so, but that is the perception.

I'd go so far as to say that the RCC was once against Masonry because Masonry promotes freedom of thought in religious matters, which is contrary to the RCC's requirement that orthodoxy originate within its own hierarchy. I'm not sure that that's a valid reason anymore, though. Despite the actions of a few renegade abortion-hating Bishops, the RCC itself appears to be much looser about freedom of thought these days.

Finally, I'd say the RCC is against Masonry for the same reason the Anglican Church in Australia is against Masonry (I am nominally an Anglican, BTW): because they have been fed a constant stream of lies and slander, and someone believed it.

Thanks to all in advance.

[Edited on 17-5-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Thank you for caring enough about our Order to ask these questions. Now, if only all new initiates were as interested in improving their knowledge