Da Vinci Crop circle ( the netherlands)

reply to post by Jskun

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I think the association here with Da Vinci
is interesting, and meaningful, while it
seems only a detail to the overall design.

It remains intriguing, and it would be nice to
hear the artist's opinions.

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Originally posted by Sol12
reply to post by 0bserver1

 

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Face it,

Delfgaauw and his companions are business men.

They are NOT artists.

They are NOT environmental activists.

Let's say, from a business point of view and regarding PR,
this 'project' can be considered a dramatic failure.

Who is going to invest time and money
in a mega 'project' like this?

No cause, no publicity, no revenue?

They could have established their name nation-wide,
even around the world?

The DaVinci/butterfly was harvested 17th of August 2009.

Why did they let the opportunity pass by?

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d7089db23059.jpg[/atsimg]

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That they are business men thats a fact you can read on their web site. And I think this man is to scared to make his statements about the CC .
Because he would get a whole lot of believers here on ATS that would love to smoke this guys ..s out

If he wants some publicity he should make some smart mathematical crop circle that can be replied with an non terrestrial answer for science . But I don't think this guy has the brains for that.

reply to post by 0bserver1

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Right on Observer.

We have a very interesting case here, so far.



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So far, from everything I have seen, this was a cc created for the anniversary of a national park in the area. You have people admitting to it, and even a picture of the crew who made it:

defotograaf.smugmug.com...

Why would a large group of people bother trying to cover up a CC if they didn't make it? Are they in cahoots with the aliens?

They prepared for this for 9 months. They WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF THE MEDIA. You are surprised there is no further info?

Ah well... some folks will refuse to believe facts, even when staring them in the face. But bottom line, unless some clever alien plucked Voyager up, why would they know about this particular image? Oh yes... for the same reason they apparently know about sextants, and other mundane earthly objects.

It is fruitless to pursue this, I honestly don't know why people bother.

Originally posted by fleabit
So far, from everything I have seen, this was a cc created for the anniversary of a national park in the area. You have people admitting to it, and even a picture of the crew who made it:

defotograaf.smugmug.com...

Why would a large group of people bother trying to cover up a CC if they didn't make it? Are they in cahoots with the aliens?

They prepared for this for 9 months. They WANT TO KEEP IT OUT OF THE MEDIA. You are surprised there is no further info?

Ah well... some folks will refuse to believe facts, even when staring them in the face. But bottom line, unless some clever alien plucked Voyager up, why would they know about this particular image? Oh yes... for the same reason they apparently know about sextants, and other mundane earthly objects.

It is fruitless to pursue this, I honestly don't know why people bother.

agreed

The crop circle is manmade and it wracks any hope for saiing that a crop circle is 100% certain made by aliens.
Wanting it to be made by aliens doesn't make it made by aliens.

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Fleabit, AncientShade.

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The main subject here has been the question, who has created this.

Only one group has publicly claimed to be the makers: xldsign.

Their claims, so far, have been unsubstantiated.

No proof, no claim.

Therefore, nobody has yet provided any convincing evidence/proof
to the question who made this DaVinci/Butterfly.

That's what is being discussed here.

The actual answers to this discussion are out there, for anyone
to find out, by following the leads provided on this thread.

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The link Fleabit posted, has been posted earlier. By Tragos
actually, someone claiming to be associated with xldsign.
we never heard of him again.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Those images and the upload were made available by Joop van Houdt,
the photographer/discoverer.

What matters here, is the fact that this link has never
been posted on xldsign website, nor any of those images.

Until yesterday,

All that remained of the initial story,
was a link to xldsign website,
containing a bare unsubstantiated claim,
accompanied by only one actual photograph.

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Update regarding xldsigns unsubstantiated claim
about alleged involvement of land-owner.

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It's 'official'.

Xldsign did actually provide an "update" on niburu.nl.

Not on their own site though.

Niburu.nl is the main source that has been promoting
xldsign's claim, without any evidence, right from the start.

One of xldsign's associates, Manfred Koeleman,
has provided this "update".

The header says, "reaction of designer":

First of all, he makes it clear that xldsign is NOT
an officially registered company (yet?).

Regarding the "project":

He specifically states,

"THE LANDOWNER WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THIS INITIATIVE."

"THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT A PUBLICITY STUNT"

"THERE IS NO REVENUE, WE PAID FOR THE EXPENSES"

(What remains is a cryptic remark which says that the land-owner
was an "enthusiastic partner", BUT that this was (probably?) NOT related
to their 200th year anniversary, nor to any of their related planned
activities.)

You can read this "update" at niburu.nl (Dutch only).

You need to scroll down to the bottom of the page,
as the update is posted below the initial story
as posted on that website. (update Nr.2+)

www.niburu.nl...

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As I have pointed out earlier, the land-owner does
not claim/state anywhere in public, to be involved in any way.

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xldsign website has gone off-line.

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I don't know if this means something,
it may only be temporary:

www.xld-sign.com...

"This account has been suspended.
Either the domain has been overused,
or the reseller ran out of resources."

Have they closed the shop,
or are they preparing an upgrade?

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Their claims, so far, have been unsubstantiated.

No proof, no claim.

Therefore, nobody has yet provided any convincing evidence/proof
to the question who made this DaVinci/Butterfly.

That's what is being discussed here.

So, it makes more sense to you than aliens made this, even though there is LESS proof... than a group that has SAID they did it?

These are not terrorists... why would you create an elaborate story about making this thing if you really didn't? Why would they claim responsibililty, especially when the SOP of these group is to REMAIN SILENT. That imo, points even more strongly to the fact that they indeed, did create this.

But whatever... if you want to think a large group of folks are somehow involved in a strange coverup of an alien made design, more power to you... good luck on your investigations, I personally think it's a huge waste of time.

As far as aliens creating these, one thing I think people overlook or ignore: How in the hell do they know to use certain designs? Even if they were say, monitoring our radio and television, why would they think this is so important or striking to us? Again, the day an alien actually wants to stick a design on the ground, I think we'll KNOW IT. Think about it: So far, most of these have contained designs that WE would recognise - created with human insight. sextants and alien heads and Mayan designs and now a "man" picture... that of course humans would instantly give weight to... but why would an alien?

Even such things as crops being put different directions. It's so flipping obvious. Let's see... they made that three circle CC, and inside of them, they try to use clever methods to make them mysterious. Crops being turned different directions, crops being twined together, etc. What a laugh. And people swallow it, hook, line and sinker.

I think if the aliens wanted to do this, we'd know, instantly. The first words out of our mouth seeing it would be "holy crap!" Perhaps it would be a design a human mind couldn't even fathom. Maybe it would be put down over 20 concurrent field in one huge design. But... humans are gullible creatures. These CC makers are just giving them what they want.

Originally posted by fleabit
So, it makes more sense to you than aliens made this, even though there is LESS proof...
than a group that has SAID they did it?

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Didn't you read about ET posting their claims??

Check the forums/fields around Wiltshire in England,
even around the world.

They have been posting for several decades meanwhile?


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One thing, Fleabit,

I'm not trying to convince you of anything.

You keep saying its all "a waste of time", but
you insist coming back here?

Meanwhile writing almost an entire essay.

To proof/say what?

The fact, you can't handle the fact that
some folks here indeed want to look at the facts
and insist to make up their own minds?

Why bother trying to figure out what makes sense to me?

You ask some fair questions,
it's up to you to find your answers to these.

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This is the translation i made from the Niburu site:

The Corn-artwork in the Wilhelmina Polder is made by XL D-Sign. A not (yet) existing company, by 3 friends, one of them Remko Delfgaauw.

Project "Atlas" as the butterflyhuman is really called is a initiative of 3 gentlemen and came as a wish from Remko to one day make the biggest corncirle in the world. The preparations where allready started in October 2008, whereby the "message of the symbol" a very important issue was.
Atlas stands for the beauty of the humans and it's vulnerability. XL D-Sign would love to see that everybody left our planet nicer then when they met it.

The Wilhelmina Polder is not the innitiator in this, but found to be a very enthousiastic partner when we revelead our plans till this moment on. Maybe it has to do with the 200 years anniversary of the business, which seems logical. But according to insiders, they would probably have cooperated also without the anniversary.

Futhermore, this is absolutely not a publicity stunt. We dont get any income and we paid all expenses out of our own pockets.

It was a very positive experience, where the closure in the field can be called a breathtaking culmination.

I will try to keep you updated.

Best wishes,

Manfred Koeleman

XL D-Sign

Actually I had the radio turned on when the crop circle was discovered. And I heard the initial interview with the maker of the crop circle.

(As you might know, I AM Dutch and no, you may not touch me )

[edit on 26-8-2009 by AncientShade]

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Xldsign website is back online.

Why?

No upgrades, no details, no facts.

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reply to post by Cygnific


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Thanks for posting this translation Cygnific.

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So, we have now several different contradicting versions of the
initial story as posted in sequence on Niburu.nl.

Has anyone noticed that there is NO link anywhere
to xldsign on this entire page?

Not even Manfred Koeleman from xldsign has provided
a link to their site in his contribution?

DCCA, the supposed "cropcircle authority" here, has not
written a single line on their website, regarding the
DaVinci/Butterfly Man?

DCCA has only one link that takes you straight back to Niburu.nl
and they have NO link to xldsign?

Congratulations and thanks to DCCA for sharing their
irrefutable research and findings!

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reply to post by AncientShade


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AncientShade,

I have here one archived section of this radio show.

It is where the photographer/discoverer Joop van Houdt
explains how he first saw the Butterfly-Man, around
6.30 AM, 7th of August.

He had NOT been introduced as Joop van Houdt in this show.

Only as "Joop" the photographer.





media.abovetopsecret.com...

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When listening to his initial report you can clearly notice
how truly amazed and excited he really is.

He can not hide how stunned he is about what he saw.

He briefly mentions that "someone had informed him"
to go have a look, however, without ever being specific.

He continues to express how "very accurate is this design".

He says: "These have to be very special people, try and do this
at night, if you would only see how perfect this is"

He actually never mentioned xldsign, at this stage.

In this radio show, the people in the end were directed to
DCCA and Niburu.nl.

The story about the appearance of the DaVinci/Butterfly
was considered "solved", and no other media showed any
signs of interest to really investigate this.

Case 'solved', or case buried??

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There is this one "group shot" that was provided by Tragos
earlier. (Not posted on xldsign website).

For whatever it's worth,

That photo was supposedly taken around 23.00 hrs,
on the evening of the 6th.

So, they hadn't even started working yet?

They still had to get to the field, do their thing,
and leave the field, clear their tracks before Joop
arrived around 6.00 AM, to find an empty field and
a pristine mega-sized cropcircle/artwork?

We may conclude it allegedly only took them (at most)
about 6 hours to create a 25 hectare sized artwork,
in a field measuring 36.4 hectare?

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a9264632221.jpg[/atsimg]

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Originally posted by Sol12
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Xldsign website is back online.

Why?

No upgrades, no details, no facts.

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Actually, while I d not now wetehr it is linked. A major hacking attack happend to multiple Dutch newssites last weekend. It might be related to the site being ofline depending on where they borrow their webspace.

where the crop is bent is where you tell if its real or man made

if real it talks about how man will metamorphize real soon

(or die)

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Orb.

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I came across the following image below
which according to the poster is a still shot
of an Orb appearing on a video that was
made around the Butterfly crop circle.

The image/video is from the 10th of August,
and was posted on a blog the 11th.

It says, no flash had been used.

There is not much additional info, only this one image.

Here is a link:

gazbom.blogspot.com...

One interesting thing here is, when having a closer look,
there appears to be a dual-light hovering in the sky
in the top right area of the image.

Could be a plane, could be something else.

As this is during daytime,
maybe one should also be seeing the rest of the plane?

When you adjust the image and slightly
enlarge it, it becomes more clear.

The poster believes the Orb is real, then again
he also purports to have fallen for the cover-story,
and considers the CC to be man-made.

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I've emailed the uploader to see if any additional
information would be available, or any other images.

I even got a quick response.

The follow up though, turned out rather vague.

I had pointed out to him the two light dots in the image,
and asked him if he had noticed, and if maybe more
would be visible in the rest of the footage.

After an exchange of several emails,
and even sending him a copy of this entire thread,
all I got in the end was a short note,
where the person told me that he considered the case closed?

He didn't provide any answers, except saying that the
actual photographer, does not want to get involved?

All he had to offer, in the end, is asking me
what makes me so convinced this would be a genuine CC?

I answered him back, by returning the question to him,
saying that I do not understand why people consider this CC man-made,
even though there are NO facts/details available to back this up?

I finished my response by asking him:

Why, if you are so convinced this CC is man-made,
do you hesitate to share some additional info re the Orb photo/video?

I never heard of him again!

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So, I will just post here this image of the Orb
above the Butterfly CC field in the Netherlands.

It is a curious photograph, a curious episode,
unfortunately though, the uploader was unwilling to provide
any additional info, so I merely post it here, as is.

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I've uploaded the original image as posted, to my
media library and you can view it here:

media.abovetopsecret.com...&action=view&id=42397

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The first image below is to show the photographer's position.

The red circle on the bottom-left points out where
the photographer is standing. The red circle on the top right
shows the direction he is looking in.

He is looking straight down the 'lane' of the right Wing
and he is viewing directly over the area which is the center
of the 'vitruvius' man. (looking down South.)

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/86382c429909.jpg[/atsimg]

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Below is a smaller copy of the actual image.

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a23d273d1788.jpg[/atsimg]
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Here, I've slightly darkened the image,
where you can see the dual-light on the top right side of image.

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a63217c63566.jpg[/atsimg]

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And an enlargement of the Orb.

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[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2b00788c948d.jpg[/atsimg]

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It's interesting, now the discussion has arrived to a point
where it is quite evident that there exists no evidence
to back-up the claim this CC would be man-made, that
it seems there isn't any motivation left to discuss this.

It is fair to say this is mainly due to
a lack of any new information.

I say in my turn, this has been the actual issue
right from the beginning?

The situation reminds me of something
expressed in a funny way by philosopher Wittgenstein.

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Meeting a friend in the corridor, Ludwig Wittgenstein said:

"Tell me, why do people always say
that it was natural for men to assume
that the sun went around the earth
rather than the earth was rotating?"

His friend said:

"Well, obviously, because it just looks
as if the sun is going around the earth."

To which the philosopher replied:

"Well, what would it look like
if it had looked as if the earth were rotating?"

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[edit on 5-9-2009 by Sol12]

Originally posted by Sol12
It's interesting, now the discussion has arrived to a point where it is quite evident that there exists no evidence to back-up the claim this CC would be man-made, that it seems there isn't any motivation left to discuss this.

I think that it's just because there is no new information, like you said, and the information we have was already discussed.