Aurora vapour trail photo

Hello,

I'm a new member. At the weekend I took some photos of what I think were Pulse Wave Detonation trails from an aircraft (wiltshire, UK). The area had been previously monitored by a stealth fighter that was visible from the ground for a period of upto an hour. The photos I have are far better than the current one doing the rounds around the internet - as you would expect the trail lasts for miles and is a straight line.

Can I post it up here for people to give me their opinions on whether it is or it isn't? Its very clearly a donut-on-a-rope straight line trail. Interestingly, the trail also turns into a straight black line at one point (at the start or the end? I couldnt tell the direction it was travelling). The trail lasted for just a few minutes.

We have RAF Fairford US air force base just a few miles away, and the UK's secret base nearby also.

Comments?

Originally posted by jcbenson
Hello,

I'm a new member. At the weekend I took some photos of what I think were Pulse Wave Detonation trails from an aircraft (wiltshire, UK). The area had been previously monitored by a stealth fighter that was visible from the ground for a period of upto an hour. The photos I have are far better than the current one doing the rounds around the internet - as you would expect the trail lasts for miles and is a straight line.

Can I post it up here for people to give me their opinions on whether it is or it isn't? Its very clearly a donut-on-a-rope straight line trail. Interestingly, the trail also turns into a straight black line at one point (at the start or the end? I couldnt tell the direction it was travelling). The trail lasted for just a few minutes.

We have RAF Fairford US air force base just a few miles away, and the UK's secret base nearby also.

Comments?

for the love of god post this photo(s) of yours. if you need instructions on doing so, I'd be very happy to assist.

theres a nice little upload center that you can find in the tab near the top of this page that says "membercenter (u2U)"

I'll do that this evening. I photo'd both the donut trail, and the black line that it merged into.

If I get any people turning up on my doorstep demanding my camera before then i'll let you know

I was pretty excited about it. Even people around me who didnt have a clue what it was couldnt believe the activity and the trail in the sky. I've heard no mention of it on the UK news though.

Oh, and forgive me for being slightly rude earlier, jcbenson. I forgot to welcome you to this board of many discussions. Welcome to Above Top Secret!

I suppose you got me a bit excited! I hope you do follow through on your statement, as I am sure that I will not be the only person to take interest at what you have to offer here in this board.

Heya jcbenson,

I live in Wiltshire too, Calne to be exact. Where abouts do you live?
I haven't heard anything on the news either... I have seen a lot of weird looking aircraft around these parts, though their probably nothing special - as I don't know a thing about aircraft.

Hey MetalHead, Im just down the road from you! Chippenham to be exact.

To further the thread, yes there have been many unusual aircraft flying around lately, we have had several AWACs, KC130s, a B-52, the Eurofighter, C-130s (normal, as Lyneham RAF base is just down the road, main Herc base in the UK).

I have seen the B2 fly over, tho not recently, destined for various air shows. B1b usuallyt makes an appearance from time to time. Ive only ever seen one elongated triangular shaped aircraft over Wiltshire, and that was last weekend. Looked to be about 3000 feet up, about 70ft long, with a wingspan of similiar. It was accompanied by a pulsating engine noise, but no contrail as it was too low.

The "secret" RAF base the parent mentioned is RAF Boscombe Down, which is used heavily for testing new aircraft, variant aircraft and the such. There was a report of a UFO crash near it, but im of the mind that it was a prototype normal aircraft rather than a true UFO.

As an interesting note, while not really tops for this forum, Wiltshire is possibly the most militarily secret area in Europe, with around 1500 miles of underground tunnels, 19 military or ex military airfields, and over 200 guarded military establishments. We are also the proud owners of RAF Rudloe Manor, which used to house the RAFs UFO investigation team, of which my father used to converse fairly regularly

awaiting picture before comment

wheres that picture at??

There are many many pictures online of the contrails:

www.parascope.com...

wave.prohosting.com...


The "Donuts-on-a-Rope" Contrail is basically what people call them:



Basically any aircraft with Pulse Detonation Wave Engines (PDWE's) can produce the contrail.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Shugo]

ME WANT PIC!

On another note, how come it seems like you guys over in the UK see more of our yankee kick ass planes then we do?! It's just not fair damnit!

maybe u americans r spying on us for some strange reason thats why we see them lol

Originally posted by madmartinez
maybe u americans r spying on us for some strange reason thats why we see them lol

If we are, I guess we are doing a piss poor job

Im still not convinced by all this contrail evidence

Basically any aircraft with Pulse Detonation Wave Engines (PDWE's) can produce the contrail.

Rather a sweeping statement. If NASA/Boeing/Lockheed said this then i might take a second look


Final note - spying on the UK why??

The "Hook"
The "shoebomber"
and the israeli suicide comber with the UK passport

UK is a terrorist haven

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by Vanguard]

PWDE engine contrails are a myth and there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF that is what causes those contrails. I see contrails like that all the time, and from talking to commercial pilots they say that certain aircraft create vortices which make that kind of contrail. Secondly, and probably most important, contrails are caused by condensation in the engines, which would be hard for a PWDE engine to do considering it isn't airbreathing. Third, a PWDE to be effective would have to fire 80 times a second, all you calculator geeks can figure out how many donuts that would be in a mile at Mach 3 if you hypothesis is correct.

Originally posted by intensity
I see contrails like that all the time

Then you must be very special. Cause I NEVER see these kind of contrails.

Also, I forgot to put basically in front of that sentance which I'm about to do. Sorry.

Originally posted by intensity
PWDE engine contrails are a myth and there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF that is what causes those contrails. I see contrails like that all the time, and from talking to commercial pilots they say that certain aircraft create vortices which make that kind of contrail. Secondly, and probably most important, contrails are caused by condensation in the engines, which would be hard for a PWDE engine to do considering it isn't airbreathing. Third, a PWDE to be effective would have to fire 80 times a second, all you calculator geeks can figure out how many donuts that would be in a mile at Mach 3 if you hypothesis is correct.

Either that or the PDEs are firing at a rate of about 1/second. So why is it that a PDE on a hypersonic aircraft is firing at that rate at an altitude not far off that of regular jetliners? Perhaps it's not cruising or climbing but simply burning off speed, perhaps keeping the PDEs firing occasionally just to keep whatever systems run off of them operational.

Originally posted by intensity
PWDE engine contrails are a myth and there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO PROOF that is what causes those contrails. I see contrails like that all the time, and from talking to commercial pilots they say that certain aircraft create vortices which make that kind of contrail. Secondly, and probably most important, contrails are caused by condensation in the engines, which would be hard for a PWDE engine to do considering it isn't airbreathing. Third, a PWDE to be effective would have to fire 80 times a second, all you calculator geeks can figure out how many donuts that would be in a mile at Mach 3 if you hypothesis is correct.

1. Regarding the donuts on a rope contrails being a myth and there being absolutely no proof... Actually there is proof.
The Germans experimented with pulse jet engines on the V-1 rockets back in WW2 and the US experimented with the Hiller-Lockwood pulse jet, both produced a similar phenomenon in tests and had they been at a high altitude would most certainly have made the contrail pattern known as "donuts on a rope".

2. Actually, your statement on the PDE not being air-breathing is false. Go back to the Popular Science article you got your 80 cycles per second figure (here's the link) and you'll see that the PDE at China Lake is an air breather.

Even if the PDE wasn't an air breather, your statement on how contrails are formed is also incorrect. Contrails are plumes of water vapor formed by the natural combustion of jet fuel at high altitudes. It's very similar to the water vapor "smoke" trails left by car exhausts on a cold winter morning. The hot exhausts of jet engines, like car engines, contains soot from the combustion of fuels, along with water vapor. In cold weather, the air cannot hold as much water as in warm temperatures, so it reaches saturation (100% humidity) very quickly.

At high altitudes, air temperatures are typically well below -40 degrees F, or even colder. At this extremely low temperature, the air can only retain a very tiny amount of water, so any excess water condenses and turns into a cloud (this is how natural clouds form too). Contrails are, in essence, cirrus clouds induced by a jet engine. Cirrus clouds are high altitude clouds made up of ice crystals.

So a PDE, Scram jet or whatever can easily make contrails if the atmospheric conditions are acceptable.
To take this a step further Minuteman 2 missiles leave contrails, as do other SOLID fuel missiles such as Deltas - and there's not enough moisture in those solid fuel babies to cause condensation inside the rocket.

3. As stated above, the PDE at China Lake is the one that cycles at 80 detonations per second and to do so uses a gatlin gun like feature on the combustion tubes, but this in no way means that every PDE that is or has been developed must also have 80 detonations per second. If the Aurora is flying and if it is using PDE's it would be 1980's technology and not 2004 China Lake technology - who's to say how many detonations per second are needed on an aledged Aurora PDE.

(thanks to intelgurl for a little help)

Does Aurora use PDE or scram jet, cause there is a big difference

Originally posted by roniii259
Does Aurora use PDE or scram jet, cause there is a big difference

It is assumed that (should it exist) it uses PDE due to the contrails and the hellacious sounds heard coming from a few air force bases.

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by bios]

True, and a scram jet only works at high Mach while a PDE cant go as fast