Roswell Debris Confirmed As Extraterrestrial: Lab Located, Scientists Named!

Originally posted by tallcool1
This is one of the more curious tall tales of the American West. It's based on Army experiments/tests of a completely non "alien" nature that either went wrong or were witnessed when they shouldn't have been. The misidentification of the material by someone who wasn't privvy to the nature or specifics of the experiments/tests led to the faulty crashed saucer headline. As the story was told from person to person, the event became overly exaggerated in the same way as the stories of Johnny Appleseed or Davey Crockett did and became a legendary tall tale - an actual person or event that became greatly overexaggerated over time and many retellings. Yet this very myth is considered part of the "proof" of the religion of alien visitation. It will take a lot more than tall tales, blurry images and videos and hearsay to be remotely considered "proof". Even the testimony of some "respectable" witness is still just imagination filling in the gaps of something they don't recognize.
I've seen and heard plenty of "evidence" of the same nature to prove the existance of Santa Claus, but I still don't believe in him either.

as someone else said you either must think all people who have seen ufos are tremendously stupid and/or love to make things up. whilst that does apply to an awfully high number of such 'sighters' if you will be so off-hand with a case which has the depth of roswell (not just a typical sighting like a single guy seeing a light in the sky) and are even prepared to ridicule its evidence as being nothing better than that of santa clause then your post only serves to make you look as part of the 'religion that there couldn't possibly be any life out there which has visited us' as you would say. and in a case which has the evidence it does that is really even more naive than believing that there was something with ETs at roswell.

and your talking of the matter which is only your opinion (which seems to be that all the evidence must be ignored because looking at it seriously would be silly) in a tone as though you know it for certain only further supports the idea that you are not even prepared to accept any form of possibility for its truth even though by adding up the evidence there has been no conclusive denial which can't be challenged yet. it is actually you who is part of a religion here. it is not possible to find truth by outright disregarding all the evidence just because it's possible that it's not correct.

how utterly ridiculous.

Originally posted by bl4ke360

If you can link me to a picture of a weather balloon that has any resemblance at all to a saucer, I would appreciate it.

Also don't you think the farmer and family would be the most important witnesses to shut up about what really happened? Probably paid them millions.

The picture of the weather balloon in the office with Marcel was shown to Bessie Brazel who confirmed it was what she picked up. And she confirmed the Project Mogul balloons looked like it too.

I'm not sure what saucer you're referring to. I'm sort of burnt out discussing points of Roswell because there are always another possible scenario being presented.

Possibly for 60 years American military personnel, who knows how many independent scientists, medical staff, designer engineers, have held critical pieces of the puzzle and been warned or paid off to say nothing. That's where the missing Pentagon budget went.

This all in the same period when it was impossible to keep the atomic bomb a secret for very long.

I've looked at almost everything that has come out on Roswell and the swelling ranks of people who have come forward since it became a cause celebre in the late 70s.

Loads of second, third and fourth hand stories, always material evidence falling shot of conclusive. No credible whistleblowers, no one outside the UFO industry with anything that can be substantiated by someone critical. And we're in a world where China and guys in Scotland have managed to get into the US military databases. Always promises and more promises.

This is a big story - the very biggest. It would change human history. But it's still doing the UFO convention circuit sideshows.

Anything's possible. Santa Claus may be able to move through parallel dimensions bringing toys to kids with his reindeer and sled. I've seen more independent confirmation for that than Roswell.


Mike


[edit on 26-5-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by amongus


Wow that is truly amazing. I had no idea that there was anything that could do that.

So was that stuff made by man, or back engineered from alien tech?

reply to post by mmiichael


What do you mean what saucer? Don't tell me you haven't seen this?
Once again, balloons don't look anything like saucers, and if the explanation you gave is correct, nobody would still be investigating it including all the witnesses that don't agree with the "official story".

[edit on 5/26/2009 by bl4ke360]

Originally posted by Nohup


We're not talking about first-hand analysis of any particular bit of metal linked by a chain of evidence to the reputed "Roswell crash," now, are we? We're talking about some documents that show that sometime not too long after this mythical crash

Damn i thought everybody here at ATS agreed somthing crashed i mean my god ,the Army published it the next day ,I must be on the wrong site here !! let me reconfigure my IP ...ok back to the endless debate ...cheers

Well I had a large post planned out, but the damn "accidental reply delete" got me again!lol........


Anyways good post but in the end the real answer to what happened in Roswell is still well protected by the multiple layers of compartmentalization and convenient cover-ups.

It is like this....

If you want to cover-up something so large knowing that in a democracy secrets always come out how would you do it?

1. Don't say anything until the time is right to fit your pre planned explanation (Mogul and dummies)
2. Spread EVERYTHING out to so many different levels that even if you find absolute proof of one being ET in origin you can not connect the dots for the "big picture".
3. Smear the UFO field with disinfo, deflection, and discrediting.
4. Launch an "official investigation" (Blue Book) yourself into the UFO phenomina, making it appear you (the government) really don't know what is going on (when you do).
5. After your "official explanation" (Roswell: Case Closed, 1994) do not answer anymore inquiries into the event, maintain AT ALL COST PLAUSBILE DENIABILITY.
6. ALWAYS deny knowledge.
7. Knowing that something this large can't be kept secret for ever you gradually induce a "buffered disclosure" throughout many decades, all culminating in a final disclosure. But this will be a "cover-up to cover-up the first cover-up"! This is so all the officials are protected from prosecution for withholding evidence from the people. So gradually you release the information in a way that no one is accountable for covering anything up. I liken it to simplifying an algebraic equation.


Also when skeptics say "A democracy like the US could not keep something like Roswell a secret!" They don't realize the ingenious design of the cover-up IMO. I mean look at what even our greatest push for the truth ever (the recent surge in UFO investigation and Congressional inquiry) has gotten us! Information from dead witnesses and a small piece of a puzzle that we can't even find. Everything leads to a dead end, but it doesn't have to, if enough people get together and research one thing simultaneously then maybe we can connect the dots and present a strong case,but until then we are left with what many on ATS and everywhere else already know: Aliens are real, the Roswell crash was real, and the U.S. government is covering it up.


Now on the memory metal........

Here is some interesting research being done by Texas A & M....

Project Title: Smart Skin for Turbulent Drag Reduction


Project Description:
Drag reduction for aerial vehicles has a range of positive ramifications: reduced fuel consumption with the associated economic and environmental consequences, larger flight range and endurance and higher achievable flight speeds. The ongoing work capitalizes on recent advances in active turbulent drag reduction and active material based actuation to develop a “smart” skin for turbulent drag reduction in realistic flight conditions.


The skin operation principle is based on computational evidence that spanwise traveling waves of the right amplitude, wavelength and frequency can result in significant turbulent drag reduction. Such traveling waves can be induced in the smart skin via active-material actuation. The flow control technique pursued is “micro” in the sense that only micro-scale wave amplitudes (order of 30 m) and energy inputs are sufficient to produce significant benefits.


To achieve a traveling wave profile on a skin, two actuation principles have been developed and analyzed and the feasibility of different skin designs based on these two actuation principles have been studied.


The current research effort is focused on the experimental validation of the proposed drag reduction technique. For this purpose, a mechanically actuated prototype skin, capable of generating a traveling wave has been designed and manufactured, using a rapid prototyping machine.

smart.tamu.edu...

In addition to the obvious strength capabilities of memory alloys there is the aerodynamic possibilities also.

EDIT to add: Also see en.wikipedia.org... for more information on these metals and some of the "magnetic remembering metals".

[edit on 5/26/2009 by jkrog08]

Why do I keep on thinking Atlantis has to do with the Roswell incident. That, what if, the government found something in the water a decade ago, and we happen of been reverse engineering it and failed on one of the aero Prototypes resulting in the crash in Roswell in 1947?

What a wild imagination I have. Or Could this have been an USO?

Originally posted by Frank Warren
Good Day All,

[The following concerns "UFO history," specifically Roswell, those not interested in these aspects should skip this thread]

This just in from Tony Bragalia:

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The "memory metal" that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash. Evidence shows that -under military direction- these unique metal studies were undertaken by a contracted laboratory that possessed advanced technical capabilities that the U.S. government itself did not have at the time. A former high-level scientist employed by the involved laboratory has offered a confession that he was tasked to study the crashed UFO material. Information provided by two U.S. Air Force Generals also offers direct support for this discovery. . . .

Tony's work has also been added to the latest edition of Witness To Roswell, by Schmitt & Carey.

Kudos to Tony and his efforts!

The rest of the story . . .

Cheers,
Frank


[edit on 26-5-2009 by Frank Warren]

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Frank Warren]

They don't call me skeptic AL for nuth'n

Doing a search on "Dr Howard C. Cross" gets two google hits!
Doing a search on "Howard C Cross" yeilds 9 hits

Only comes up on UFO nutters sites or Blog Sites about UFO nutters

Should I be surprised......

It's hardly convincing evidence

Originally posted by bl4ke360

What do you mean what saucer? Don't tell me you haven't seen
Once again, balloons don't look anything like saucers, and if the explanation you gave is correct, nobody would still be investigating it including all the witnesses that don't agree with the "official story".

Two weeks before Kenneth Arnold spots an unidentified flying object in his plane. The press reports on it. A misunderstood quote of the object's movement likened to a sauces skipping over water. New catchphrase "Flying Saucer" is created by the media.

According to the Roswell Daily Record

"Mr. and Mrs. Dan Wilmot apparently were the only persons in Roswell who seen what they thought was a flying disk.

[...]

Wilmot said that it appeared to him to be about 1,500 feet high and going fast. He estimated between 400 and 500 miles per hour.

In appearance it looked oval in shape like two inverted saucers, faced mouth to mouth, or like two old type washbowls placed, together in the same fashion. The entire body glowed as though light were showing through from inside, though not like it would inside, though not like it would be if a light were merely underneath."


That's according to the article.

But not according to the material found on the ground.

Thousands of objects in the sky from then on. Before Arnold's misinterpreted remark in 1947, they were not described as saucers.

The military not sure if they have something innocuous, some unknown enemy technology from the recent war, or the biggest find ever, ship it all off to be examined.

Then that story fizzles for 30 years.

But a similar story is generated by conman "Dr" Leo GeBauer of a similar crash in Kingman Arizona. It's disproven and he's convicted of fraud in trying to cash in on it.

But the story keeps rolling on.

Nothing I type will convince the already converted that there was, based on reliable evidence and testimony, no alien ship crash, no alien bodies, connected to the Roswell incident.

This does not mean I dismiss the possibility of other intelligences in the universe or even their visitations here.

But it demonstrates the power of suggestion and a need to feed a fantastic story by some.

In 1917 tens of thousands near Fatima Portugal saw a still unexplained flaring and unusual movement of a bright object in the skies. As there had recently been a well publicized regional case of children claiming a vision of the Virgin Mary, they all attributed the sighting to an Act of God or members of his family.

What is unclear to our senses we try to make sense of with what imagery we have in our active vocabulary.

Stories take on lives of their own. They always are embellished and grow. Those on the periphery always move themselves closer to the centre and importance and prompting details are added.

The Roswell story has become more about human nature than contact with alien entities.


Mike

Heres and idea what if it was an alien craft that crashed but instead of it being super advanced like we all assume it was what if it was one of their older models with technology that wasnt uptodate. I mean lightyears away from home who knows how often they would get a chance to go back and get the latest gear.
What if, for the purposes of space travel at light speed, this metal is the best thing to use? We dont know we havent traveled at light speed in space how would we know whats best to use.

Either way something went down and the story keeps changing so its enough to look further into. The leaders dont want us to know something, so why not find out the truth for our sake.

The title of this thread is misleading.
Nothing has been confirmed as being of ET origin.
Some claims have been made, that is all.
Confirmation requires hard, factual proof.

I hope my gut is wrong. Because 99% of claims such as what the article suggests turn out to either be attention seekers, hoaxers or people with mental disorders. Not a good track record. AKA bunk.

Originally posted by caballero

what if it was an alien craft that crashed but instead of it being super advanced like we all assume it was what if it was one of their older models with technology that wasnt uptodate. I mean lightyears away from home who knows how often they would get a chance to go back and get the latest gear.

What if, for the purposes of space travel at light speed, this metal is the best thing to use? We dont know we havent traveled at light speed in space how would we know whats best to use.

Interesting notion but revealing our cultural bias. An advance intelligence capable of traversing the universe possibly taking thousands of years to arrive here, change their crafts models in convenient unison with our emerging 20th Century transportation technologies.

They arrive in the 1940s, in a suspiciously 1940s looking design craft but with their equivalent of our many years later technology.

And their trip was initiated possibly before human civilization had even begun.

This is asking a lot to accept.


Mike



[edit on 27-5-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by Frank Warren
This just in from Tony Bragalia:

Newly discovered documents reveal that in the months immediately following the purported 1947 UFO crash at Roswell, secret government studies began on a material that was previously unknown to science. The "memory metal" that was studied precisely matches some of the debris material reported by several witnesses to the crash.

Cheers,
Frank

Hi Frank!

This metal is described as a martinsite-austinite reversible. This behavior has been known for over a hundred years. A number of ferrous and non-ferrous metal alloys undergo stress or temperature induced reversible shape transformations. These transformations were first observed 130 years ago by a German metallurgist named Adolf Martin and hence they are called martinsitic transformations.

I wonder therefore if the Roswell crash had anything to do with the discovery of this particular property seeing that it has been known to exist more than a hundred years ago?

Here’s an interesting vid on Nitinol, the ‘memory metal’. A deformed wire bounces back to its original shape!




Cheers!



Martensitic Transformations: Crystallography and Nucleation
www.msm.cam.ac.uk...




[edit on 27-5-2009 by mikesingh]

reply to post by skeptic_al


Yes I think others who have done the search are running into brick walls. Considering the import of the work done in metallurgy, his name would have appeared somewhere in private sector even. some journal, even obscure..And then one would have to look at when in the ufo blog or site it appeared as well and it seems like..
The title is extremely misleading, as if its been confirmed by the highest , or very credible journal or laboratory.

If his name and work can't be found outside of ufo blog, and second hand..its hardly a reason to work oneself over. Vetting is critical before one lets a stunt take hold.If you can't Can't vet him something is really askew,..no matter how nice the story sounds or who is telling it.
The first time I saw that metal was in 1960s in a popular mechanics , always had good stuff besides mechanics, magazine. It was neat to read about the changing shape...but that was it..never any et reference. and it is as a poster said earlier , been around since the thirties, and its given way to ferro magnetic alloys, but there are hundreds of shape changing alloys, but not good under long term leds. They are even used in golf inserts, as well magicians spoons for the psychic bending ..


en.wikipedia.org...
There are hundreds of alloys that exhibit the shape memory effect (known as shape memory alloys; SMAs), but only two alloy systems, TiNi and CuZnAl, (copper zinc aluminum)have found many practical applications. Other alloys are considered too expensive or they exert insufficient force.

In dentistry, the material is used in orthodontics for brackets and wires and in endodontics, ..Due to the fact it can change shapes it is also used as a golf club insert.
Another significant application of Nitinol in medicine is in stents:Nitinol is highly biocompatible and has properties suitable for use in orthopaedic implants.
Nitinol is also popular in extremely resilient glasses frames. It is also used in some mechanical watch springs.
It can be used as a temperature control system; It is used in some novelty products, such as self-bending spoons which can be used by amateur and stage magicians to demonstrate "psychic" powers or as a practical joke, as the spoon will bend itself when used to stir tea, coffee, or any other warm liquid.



But what is most important is how this man suddenly moves from total obscurity to front center row.

One example I saw ..he must be the guy on some missing report 13 . well if the report is missing, how do we know thats the guy?..
Did I just miss something
Its has to be a name, with a history..verifiable..not just popping up like a daisy out of nowhere.
..

I would urge to keep googling for this guy before anyone takes any side, and starts the ritual labeling that accompanies these discussions. You will be glad you did.


[edit on 27-5-2009 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 27-5-2009 by Sys_Config]

Originally posted by Electro38
Its interesting to think how a craft made with such advanced, non-destructive memory metal/material could leave a wreckage of debris when it supposedly crashed.

Even our state of the art airplanes or space shuttles crash sometimes, but regarding the Alien Roswell craft, what do you think of this possibility?
Lou Baldin, former ATS member “sleeper”, writes it.

The craft he and the committee had in their possession was not damaged in an accident. In reality, it had been attacked by one of the ships belonging to renegade Aliens.

The shipwreck could have been cleaned up with all signs of its existence kept secret by the Aliens, but they were directed by others in a higher level of the matrix “to let it stay.” The Aliens allowed the craft to come into the hands of certain chosen people, the committee, who the Aliens knew were going to be brought into their fold anyway.

During that day back in 1947, there where more then one unknown crafts visible on the radar screens, so it is a very real possibility.

[edit on 27/5/09 by spacevisitor]

reply to post by spacevisitor



see this is what really bugs me about the belivers. They always want it both ways.

When someone says FTL travel is impossible they say "well an alien civ could be millions of years ahead you dont know what technlogy they have far superior to ours."

yet when people are suspicious such tech would crash on earth they compare it to our primitive 747 or space shuttle.

sorry but its a total contradiction in order to keep your crashed spaceship fantasy intact


[edit on 27-5-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

yet when people are suspicious such tech would crash on earth they compare it to our primitive 747 or space shuttle.

There is nothing wrong when people are suspicious about how such tech would crash on earth, so therefore I only give another but real possibility.

Originally posted by yeti101
sorry but its a total contradiction in order to keep your crashed spaceship fantasy intact.

It’s obvious a fantasy for you, but a reality for me.

Originally posted by yeti101


see this is what really bugs me about the belivers. They always want it both ways.

[...]

its a total contradiction in order to keep your crashed spaceship fantasy intact

In an interesting parallel on a seemingly unrelated topic 9/11.

Again the belief is the US government is hiding information. Truthers claim 9/11 was not a terrorist attack, but a planned false flag operation to allow the US admin to declare a War on Terror.

With little documented evidence to support this, the focus has shifted to a belief in a controlled demolition of the WTC. The claim is that despite two planes being flown into buildings causing massive fires and loss of structural integrity, explosives were planted causing the buildings to collapse.

The current hot topic is a physics professor who somehow has obtained debris from the site and found traces of highly reactive thermite which he surmises could have been planted to weaken the steel support of the edifices.

Chemists everywhere and on ATS threads have shown that the materials in question are actually paint chips and not explosives.

So again we have an attempt to validate a major world event supposedly kept secret by the US government, based on poorly documented lab tests. And the so-called 'experts' providing the scientific data have no established credentials in their field.


Mike

reply to post by mmiichael


9/11 is more complex than this aspect of the Roswell story in terms of analyses of physical properties - or namely the lack of in the case of 9/11. And why is that? Primarily it's the melted steel being spirited off to China before anyone could analyze it. Why weren't the (2) official reports able to convey any evidence of melted steel (at a temperature anywhere close to where steel melts)?

Anyway, hopefully this won't deviate into a 9/11 fight, but there's a difference in the 2 cases. Time will tell if this Roswell analysis proves correct.

I don't know what the fuss is about here.
The ufochronicles site is not even a reputable source of infomation...
It seems to me its a load of nutjobs just making up storys for publicity.
If you want "real" disclosure start reading these threads...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...